Not By Works

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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I am interested in TT's answer to this question too. TT are you going to answer. VCO, EG, decon, ljs, BillG?

Do you believe that salvation is conditional upon believing? Simple yes or no?
We are saved by faith in the risen the Lord Jesus.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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I do
...not to try to be somebody or anything like that, or be a busybody. But you have to believe.
Yes one has to believe to be ssved.
Without geniun faith/belief in Jesus then one cannot be saved.

Romans 10:5-13 (NKJV)

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I studied the Word "instruction" this weekend from KJV & Strong's.
It's mentioned 25 times in Proverbs
Prov 10:17 he is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth.
Instruction: 4148 chastisement, reproof, warning, correction, discipline
Bruce?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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I am interested in TT's answer to this question too. TT are you going to answer. VCO, EG, decon, ljs, BillG?

Do you believe that salvation is conditional upon believing? Simple yes or no?
I am saved just like our Father Abraham, by grace through faith. Salvation is not conditional based on my performance.

Do Christians have a responsibility to obey Jesus Christ after we are saved absolutely, to obey is better than sacrifice.

You should rephrase your question like, "What are the responsibilities of a disciple of Jesus Christ." The way you have phased this question is so that you can prove your misguided application of God's word. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, "Not by Works" lest anyone boast"

1Samuel15:22
To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams.

Genesis15:6
Abram believed the LORD, and it was credited to him as righteousness.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Do you believe that salvation is conditional upon believing?JPT
Honestly your question reminds me of when the Pharisees were constantly trying to catch Jesus in a lie; in which your, self-righteous, save myself dogma, puts you right along side of the Pharisees working day in and day out for their salvation.

Eternal Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ - as was our Father Abraham.

Luke11:53,54
53) When Jesus went outside, the Pharisees and the teachers of the law began to oppose him fiercely and to besiege him with questions, 54) "waiting to catch him in something he might say."
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Honestly your question reminds me of when the Pharisees were constantly trying to catch Jesus in a lie; in which your, self-righteous, save myself dogma, puts you right along side of the Pharisees working day in and day out for their salvation.

Eternal Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ - as was our Father Abraham.

Luke11:53,54
53) When Jesus went outside, the Pharisees and the teachers of the law began to oppose him fiercely and to besiege him with questions, 54) "waiting to catch him in something he might say."

I see, so believing the Gospel is a self righteous, save myself dogma, promoted by Pharisee's? LOL!!!


Thank you for exposing your lawless false Gospel,



Jesus said - lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Those in the first group heard the Gospel and did not believe, and therefore, were not saved.



Those who promote man made doctrines seek to distract, and complicate the simple straightforward teachings of Christ, having no desire to come into the unity of faith, and be in one accord with the truth.


Simply put, they hate the truth, and seek to revile and slander those who speak the truth, because the light of truth exposes their darkness.




JPT
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,464
4,084
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Jesus said - lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Those in the first group heard the Gospel and did not believe, and therefore, were not saved.





JPT
Who are the first group you are referring to?
The ones who were not saved.

I have obviously missed something
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,464
4,084
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I see, so believing the Gospel is a self righteous, save myself dogma, promoted by Pharisee's? LOL!!!


Thank you for exposing your lawless false Gospel,



Jesus said - lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Those in the first group heard the Gospel and did not believe, and therefore, were not saved.



Those who promote man made doctrines seek to distract, and complicate the simple straightforward teachings of Christ, having no desire to come into the unity of faith, and be in one accord with the truth.
Simply put, they hate the truth, and seek to revile and slander those who speak the truth, because the light of truth exposes their darkness.




JPT
Please read what TT was trying to convey.

He was saying the self righteous, save myself dogma is a false gospel, therefore not the the gospel.

Now you agree with this because you yourself say that works do not and cannot save us.

With regards to works did you read what TT said about obedience?

If not here it is.

Do Christians have a responsibility to obey Jesus Christ after we are saved absolutely, to obey is better than sacrifice.
I'm sure TT will correct me if I'm wrong.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,464
4,084
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I agree with everything you posted here.



Now can you please answer the very simple question:


Do you believe that salvation is conditional upon believing?


It's a yes or no question.



JPT
My response

Is it just a yes and no question?

What determines belief/believing?
What is it believing in that saves us?

What ultimately saves us?
What saved the thief on the cross and who saved him?

Is there a difference between saving faith and belief or believing.

Evangelist Lester Roloff put it this way... “Real repentance is putting your trust in Jesus Christ so you will not live like that anymore.” Departing from a sinful lifestyle is a matter of appreciation for what the Lord has done for us, of obeying God as His child, and not as a condition of saving-faith.

You do say and have said that we are not saved by works but by faith but do come across as saying that we must continue to do works to be saved.
So the focus is on works and not faith.

Correct me if I have got that wrong.

So does genuine saving faith save or by believing that our works save?

I think you think that works do not save but that the issue a believer can lose their salvation and no longer do works.

Is that a correct?
Your subsequent response
Jesus said - lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Those in the first group heard the Gospel and did not believe, and therefore, were not saved.





JPT
Now I've lost the will to live.

The first group heard the Gospel but did not believe and therefore were not saved.
Therefore not saved to begin with?

So they have no belief to continue in to be saved.

Or were you having a pop at me and inferring that I do not believe that believe in Jesus to be saved is not necessary?

I sincerely hope not.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
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My response



Your subsequent response


Now I've lost the will to live.

The first group heard the Gospel but did not believe and therefore were not saved.
Therefore not saved to begin with?

So they have no belief to continue in to be saved.

Or were you having a pop at me and inferring that I do not believe that believe in Jesus to be saved is not necessary?

I sincerely hope not.
Does your hope rest on the beliefs of one Justpassinthrough?
Of course not. Don't take them so serious that you even quip you've lost the will to live. (hug)
Luke 8
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,464
4,084
113
O
Does your hope rest on the beliefs of one Justpassinthrough?
Of course not. Don't take them so serious that you even quip you've lost the will to live. (hug)
Luke 8
Over here the term "I've lost the will to live "

Means I've read what you are saying and don't get it, and as I try to see what you are saying I still don't get it.

It's not a literal meaning.

Lost in translation or meaning.

So please do not worry.

But I just want to say thank you for your response above.

It shows a loving gentle heart.

Hug back
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,261
113
I see, so believing the Gospel is a self righteous, save myself dogma, promoted by Pharisee's? LOL!!!


Thank you for exposing your lawless false Gospel,



Jesus said - lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Those in the first group heard the Gospel and did not believe, and therefore, were not saved.



Those who promote man made doctrines seek to distract, and complicate the simple straightforward teachings of Christ, having no desire to come into the unity of faith, and be in one accord with the truth.


Simply put, they hate the truth, and seek to revile and slander those who speak the truth, because the light of truth exposes their darkness.




JPT
You will always twist the words of what people say to benefit your agenda. As I told you before your question was just a cheap set up to try and find fault in someones faith. Thanks for proving my point.

God did not intend the True Gospel to turn out a bunch of hypocritical Pharisees.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Who are the first group you are referring to?
The ones who were not saved.

I have obviously missed something
Yes sir.

The first group are those who received the seed on the path and the devil snatched it from their heart, lest they should believe and are saved.


JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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You will always twist the words of what people say to benefit your agenda. As I told you before your question was just a cheap set up to try and find fault in someones faith. Thanks for proving my point.

God did not intend the True Gospel to turn out a bunch of hypocritical Pharisees.
How is asking what the condition to being saved, a cheap set up?

The condition for being saved is to believe.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


  • lest they should believe and be saved.

I posted the scripture to validate my statement.

And for this, you call me names and revile me saying all manner of evil against me falsely.


Why?



JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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yeah

those who have no root

no new heart < not born again
They believed.

Jesus said the condition for being saved is to believe.

These in this group did in fact believe.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12


  • who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.


They believed... for a while.

The ones on the road did not believe, however that’s not the case with these.


If there is more to being saved than believing, then please explain what that would be.



JPT