Not By Works

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Jul 2, 2018
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Life is crap, experience of our life is crap.

Crap shapes our lives and that crap affects our life with and walk with God.

Crap doesn't just happen now but may have done from the womb and in our early years.

It carries over, belivers bring baggage over that they know of, then God reveals baggage that they did not know.

It's hard folks, really hard so so hard.

Even positive thoughts and memories can be exposed as false memories.
The mind can block the negative.

Where is the compassion and love, where is the understanding where a person is at?

Does saying Bible says now go do work?
Is that walking with wounded hurting people?

People who struggle.

Walk with or dictate to?

Which is best?
May I post here that I am learning that forgiveness is one of God's absolutes...if I don't...He won't.
He hates murmuring & complaining but loves when I give thanks in all things and praise His Holy Name (nature)!
My victim mentality
 
Jul 2, 2018
60
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May I post here that I am learning that forgiveness is one of God's absolutes...if I don't...He won't.
He hates murmuring & complaining but loves when I give thanks in all things and praise His Holy Name (nature)!
My victim mentality
goes out the door...sorry...hit "reply" too soon. ☺
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhortyou that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR LASCIVIOUSNESS, and DENYING the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. 11Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they arewithout water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speecheswhich ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18how that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.

26For as the body without the spirit is dead, SO FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ALSO

15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and DISOBEDIENT, and unto every good work reprobate.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
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13Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN. 14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.


A SERVANT OF GOD HAS A DUTY TO OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING. SERVANTS WERE PREPARED FOR WORKS OF SERVICE FOR THE EDIFICATION OF THE CHURCH


11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 FOR THE PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.


28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

(Ref: romans 12:1-8)


16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


WE ARE SERVANTS OF WHOM WE OBEY.


EVERY MEMBER OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ARE SERVANTS OF GOD WHOM THEY OBEY.


CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR OF HIS BODY WHICH IS THE CHURCH...eph 5:23, col 1:18


IF A BROTHER DELIBERATELY SINS, ARE WE NOT TO EXPEL HIM?


26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore PUT AWAY FROM AMONG YOURSELVES THAT WICKED PERSON.


21 for if God spared not the natural branches, TAKE HEED LEST HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF THOU CONTINUE in his goodness: OTHERWISE, THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.


30And CAST YE THE UNPROFITABLE SERVANT INTO OUTER DARKÑESS: THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.(Ref: matthèw 25:45-46)


6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF GOD UPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE.


“FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.


14Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and ARISE FROM THE DEAD, and Christ shall give thee light.


11And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: FOR NOW IS OUR SALVATION NEARER THAN WHEN WE (FIRST) BELIEVED.



1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, AND ART DEAD. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.


6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF GOD UPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE


…”BECAUSE THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY, AND SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL.”


3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4God forbid: yea, LET GOD BE TRUE, but every man a liar; as it is written,

That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings,
And mightest overcome when thou art judged...AMEN
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
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OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)



SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)



OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:



Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.



JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.



THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.



JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)



WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?



WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)



IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?



JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.



Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.



Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?



GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )



Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?



John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.



2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.



DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)



NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?



Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.



MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.



ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?



DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?



Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.



James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING for him.


Romans 8:24-25 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But IF WE HOPE FOR WHAT WE DO NOT HAVE YET we wait for it patiently.


2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For WHAT IS SEEN IS TEMPORARY, but WHAT IS UNSEEN IS ETERNAL.


THERE ARE SOME ON THIS FORUM WHO CLAIM TO HAVE ALREADY POSSESSED ETERNAL SALVATION. DO THEY NO LONGER WAIT FOR THE LORD TO BRING THEM SALVATION SINCE THEY ALREADY POSSESS IT? ARE THEY NOT GOING TO FACE JUDGMENT ANYMORE?


Philippians 3:12-16 NOT that I have already OBTAINED all this, or have ALREADY BEEN MADE PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward THE GOAL to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are MATURE should take such a view of things. And if on some point YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have ALREADY ATTAINED.


1 Peter 1:9 for you are receiving THE GOAL OF YOUR FAITH, the SALVATION of your souls.



SALVATION IS THE GOAL OF THOSE WHO ARE WAITING FOR HIM, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.


OSAS IS A FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES THE WORD OF GOD.


Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then YOU NO LONGER LET HIM DO ANYTHING for his father or mother. THUS YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. AND YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT.”



JESUS SAID;


“If you love me, you will obey what I command.” john 14:15



…” If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”matthew 19:17



“ Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.” john 14:21-24



THIS FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE TEACHES THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS JUST A WORK THAT MAN CAN DO BUT HAVE NO PART, NEITHER ESSENTIAL NOR NECESSARY FOR SALVATION WHICH CONTRADICTS THE FF:


Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words. says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.””””””””

WE ARE TO WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION NOT AS INDIVIDUALS WORKING FOR HIS OWN SALVATION BUT AS ONE BODY IN CHRIST(eph 4:1-16) WORKING AS GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS OF GOD(mat 25:14-30) WHO ARE LIVING ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT AND NOT ACCORDING TO THE SINFUL NATURE.(rom 8:1-17) WE HONOR AND GLORIFY GOD BY THESE WORKS OF LOVE, FAITH AND OBEDIENCE THAT BEARS GOOD FRUITS THAT WILL LAST..(john 15:6-17)


Luke 3:9 the ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”


1 Peter 1:3-7 Praise to God for a living hope Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a LIVING HOPE through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the SALVATION THAT IS READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be PROVED GENUINE and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.


2 Peter 1:5-11 For this very reason, make every effort to ADD TO YOUR FAITH goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being INEFFECTIVE and UNPRODUCTIVE in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and BLIND, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his PAST SINS. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT AND REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.


Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.


John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from

God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?


James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.


“DEAD FAITH CANNOT SAVE” ))james 2:14-26)


“LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR” rom 3:4
 
Oct 31, 2015
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A sheep that wanders ia still a sheep and no where does scripture say arw turned backninto a goat

My point that I made from the scriptures is a sheep can wander away and become lost.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


  • What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them
  • does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost
  • ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’


Please define for us, based on the language from this passage, the word "lost".




JPT
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)



SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)



OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:



Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.



JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.



THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.



JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)



WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?



WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)



IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?



JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.



Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.



Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?



GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )



Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?



John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.



2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.



DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)



NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?



Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.



MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.



ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?



DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?



Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.



James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)


you post huge walls of misunderstandings with your caps lock on then tie them to out of context verses


but you seem to ultimately believe

"men / women save themself through their own efforts"


.... even though so many have shown the truth to you

it's a shame man... it really is
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
A sheep that wanders is still a sheep and no where does scripture say arwle turned back into a goat...that view is idiotic...and the Prodigal was a son throughout the whole process and onle perceived as dead by his actions, yet was very much ALIVE throughout the whole process....

Define the following words applied to salvation

irrevocable gift
eternal life
everlasting life
saved to the uttermost
kept by the power of God

Your false dogma denies, rejects and sweeps under the table the above FACTS......there are NO verses in context that teaches a man can lose or forfeit salvation.....!!!!

amen
 

benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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Matthew 13:1-8

The Parable of the Sower
(Mark 4:1–9; Luke 8:4–8)
1 On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The wayside not saved, no root.
The stony ones no root.
The thorns no root.

None of the above indicate genuine faith, being in the vine.

As for the good ground.

They yielded a crop.
They can only do so because they are in the vine.
Yet Jesus says the crop yielded is varying.

But the fact is that a crop can only be yeilded if it has a root.
Unless it is uprooted somehow or is burned by the sun and dies within the root. Just like the parable of the vine. Jesus tells us that those branches IN HIM that produce no fruit will be taken away (lose salvation). John 15:2
 

benhur

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What if the sheep when found had bit the master and ran away again?

What would have happened if the prodigal had got engaged in a good business deal and never returned to the father. What if the prodigal had never repented and returned?
 

benhur

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you post huge walls of misunderstandings with your caps lock on then tie them to out of context verses


but you seem to ultimately believe

"men / women save themself through their own efforts"


.... even though so many have shown the truth to you

it's a shame man... it really is
Men and women can not save themselves. That is done by the love of Jesus toward us. We all believe in Jesus as our Savior. It is Jesus that saves, but he is only going to save those that listen and do what he tells them to do.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Matthew 13:1-8

The Parable of the Sower
(Mark 4:1–9; Luke 8:4–8)
1 On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The wayside not saved, no root.
The stony ones no root.
The thorns no root.

None of the above indicate genuine faith, being in the vine.

As for the good ground.

They yielded a crop.
They can only do so because they are in the vine.
Yet Jesus says the crop yielded is varying.

But the fact is that a crop can only be yeilded if it has a root.
I agree that the wayside seeds had no root and did not know about salvation.

The stony seeds received the word with joy (believed) and put down roots, but because of the soil it was shallow root, and their plant sprang up immediately. So I believe these people heard the word, believed and saved in the Lord and started to do good thiings immediately in their new person and their new life. However, when the persecutions came and the temptations of the world came, they could not abide longer in the gospel and gave it up. (lost their salvation).

The seeds mixed with the thorns, took root as did the thorns. They recieved the gospel and sprang up as saved people ready to do the will of God. But again, the temptations of the world and the persecutions of the state choked them as they grew until they were dead to the gospel. (lost their salvation).

As it says in John 15:2, there are those branches that are IN JESUS that will be cut out and thrown away because they bear no fruit for the kingdom and therefore are not fit for the kingdom. (They were saved IN JESUS, and they lost there salvation because they did not produce.)

Be always ready to do the will of God and you will be OK. Be willing to turn away from God and it does not matter what you have done before, you will not be OK.
 

benhur

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Life is crap, experience of our life is crap.

Crap shapes our lives and that crap affects our life with and walk with God.

Crap doesn't just happen now but may have done from the womb and in our early years.

It carries over, belivers bring baggage over that they know of, then God reveals baggage that they did not know.

It's hard folks, really hard so so hard.

Even positive thoughts and memories can be exposed as false memories.
The mind can block the negative.

Where is the compassion and love, where is the understanding where a person is at?

Does saying Bible says now go do work?
Is that walking with wounded hurting people?

People who struggle.

Walk with or dictate to?

Which is best?
The bible absolutely says, now go do work. That is the solution to the crappy life. Have you ever heard these words. Those who lose their life will gain their life. Those who lose their life in the service of their God will gain their life here on earth and will have EL with God and Jesus forever. IOW do what I say and your life will be far less crappy. It is a good solution.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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My point that I made from the scriptures is a sheep can wander away and become lost.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


  • What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them
  • does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost
  • ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’


Please define for us, based on the language from this passage, the word "lost".




JPT
Your conflating a lost sheep in the wilderness and LOSING SALVATION....ONE OF MANY fatal flaws in your dogma with eternal consequences.....does it say the sheep became a goat...NOPE....wake up man your theology is severly flawed and lacking in biblical truth!
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Men and women can not save themselves. That is done by the love of Jesus toward us. We all believe in Jesus as our Savior. It is Jesus that saves, but he is only going to save those that listen and do what he tells them to do.

lol

ben.....

John 11:26
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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What if the sheep when found had bit the master and ran away again?

What would have happened if the prodigal had got engaged in a good business deal and never returned to the father. What if the prodigal had never repented and returned?
Hahhahahahha shows how much you don't know about sheep and or shepherds.......wow man......your "what if's" don't even come close to real world examples....hahhahhaa more tainted cake from another erroneous ideology.....!!
 

benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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Even though this shallow ground hearer is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually "saved"? I will explain the reasons:

First, his heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer in the 4th soil,who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.

John has portrayed people who "believe" to some level but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their "belief" was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. YOU CALL THAT SAVED? :unsure:
I have heard numerous times that the second you believe, you are saved. The parable of the sower proves that to be a wrong doctrine.

Now because of the parable of the sower, there are 2 kinds of belief. One that is not a deep abiding belief, and another one that is a deep abiding belief. It seems you are using that logic to get around scriptures that prove OSAS is a false doctrine.
 

benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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Hahhahahahha shows how much you don't know about sheep and or shepherds.......wow man......your "what if's" don't even come close to real world examples....hahhahhaa more tainted cake from another erroneous ideology.....!!
You have never seen an animal that is stuck in mud or tied up in barbed wire, and when you come to save it, they struggle so hard to get away from you that they actually die of their wounds. Apparently you have not.

You think that in the real world the prodigal did not have other options rather than repenting and going back home? Apparently you have live in a different world than me.
 

benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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lol

ben.....

John 11:26
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
John 15:2
2 Every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

You do not have to start everyone of your posts with "lol". When I post something, it is not a laughing matter.