Not By Works

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theanointedsinner

Guest
If I may presume. It may be best to explain in the event people do not know.
we should give people the benefit of the doubt instead of judging
Therefore, let's do away with senseless doubting of other people's salvation
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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we should give people the benefit of the doubt instead of judging
Therefore, let's do away with senseless doubting of other people's salvation
I simply addressed your question. "people here know the difference between true apostates and "stage apostates", right? "
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
I simply addressed your question. "people here know the difference between true apostates and "stage apostates", right? "
actually,
true aposates are those who were never called to be saved to begin with
while stage apostates are more like "fake apostates" as in "true christians" or at least someone called to be saved

we are unable to distinguish the difference between the two
and, incase if I misunderstand what apostates is, would you kindly clarify for me what it is?
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
the question whether people truly know the difference or not
is negotiable
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Hi all...For those who have been called by God Himself are saved through the blood of our LORD Jesus Christ Himself...We are called by God , it is God who owns our heart...My faith the size of a mustard seed has been watered by God Himself , my branches are growing , I am getting leaves , my branches are becoming sturdy , why ? because I trust in the LORD my God , because I am who I am because of Him , I am nothing without my LORD , I do not understand how people who claim they have Jesus and pick holes in what our LORD has done for us , it needs to stop , we are saved by Gods grace , and nothing nothing else...xox...
I do not pick holes in what the Lord has done. How can you pick holes in what the Lord has done. What I try to point out is the misinterpretation of what people believe the Lord has done and what people need to do to have EL.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
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actually,
true aposates are those who were never called to be saved to begin with
while stage apostates are more like "fake apostates" as in "true christians" or at least someone called to be saved

we are unable to distinguish the difference between the two
and, incase if I misunderstand what apostates is, would you kindly clarify for me what it is?
I wouldn't agree on the definition of "fake aostates". This is sourced from Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature
I don't share it because I take issue with your definition per say. I have not heard the term, stage apostate. Thank you for sharing to my earlier question.

Apostate


(ἀποστάτης , a rebel, renegade), a term used, in its strict sense, by ecclesiastical writers, to designate one who has, either wholly or in part, left the true faith to embrace a false belief, or who has forsaken any holy profession to which he was bound by solemn vows. The term apostate is, in Church history, applied by way of emphasis to the Emperor Julian, who, though he had been nominally Christian when he came to the throne, renounced the Christian religion, and used every means in his power to reestablish paganism in the empire. (See HERETIC).
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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people here know the difference between true apostates and "stage apostates", right?
Judas is the perfect example of an apostate he worked along side of Jesus and the eleven disciples for three years and yet was only pretending to be a follower of Jesus. The eleven disciples never new Judas was a pretend disciple until Jesus reveal it to His chosen disciples.

John6:70
Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!"

Please explain, "stage apostates" thank you.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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Apostates were never true believers, that is why they left the faith. And Christians will all endure to the end, its called the perseverance of the saints or the "eternal security of the believer."

One thing I am sure of and you are not is that your grace plus works counterfeit gospel will not add one millisecond to your time in heaven. "Saved by grace through faith and that not of yourself it is the gift of God." Eph2:8

You have too much pride to ever accept that you will never be good enough to enter heaven on your own merit, a pity.

Epheasians1:13,14
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory."

Philippians1:6
6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.


OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)

SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)

OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.

THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.

JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)

WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?

WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)

IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?

JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.

Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?

GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)

NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?

Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.

ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?

DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Philippians 2 : 8

8 And being found in appearance as a man, HE HUMBLED HIMSELF and became OBEDIENT--even death on a cross!

1 Peter 2 : 21

21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS

John 13 : 15-17

15 I have set you an example that YOU SHOULD DO AS I HAVE DONE FOR YOU

16 I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed IF YOU DO THEM.

1 John 2 : 6

6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

hebrews 5: 7-9

7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent SUBMISSION.

8 Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered

9 and, once made perfect, HE BECAME THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.

Ephesians 5 : 6

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.

New International Version 1984 Jude 1:4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.


New International Version 1984 Titus 1:15-16 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. THEY CLAIM TO KNOW GOD, BUT BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good.

James 2 : 26

26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT DEEDS IS DEAD.

New International Version 1984 Ephesians 5:14 for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: “WAKE UP, O sleeper, RISE FROM THE DEAD, and Christ will shine on you.”

New International Version 1984 Romans 13:11 And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because OUR SALVATION IS NEARER NOW than when we FIRST BELIEVED.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
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Are you referring to Hebrew 10:26 concerning "sacrifice for forgiveness is not available when sin is present"
Yes.

With regards to unlimited # times for forgiveness, are you not limiting the grace of God?
Nope. OSAS believers do.

All the fathers of the faith committed willful sin, include Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
So did David, Solomon.
Jonah rebelled against God.
Peter denied Jesus.
The list could be added to.

All the above sinned willfully, David many times.


Are the above in heaven?
B...,
Willful or un-willful...one must repent for our sins as we travel thru life. Remember, G-d will judge us after this earthly physical death. Once He does that and we receive eternal salvation...no one can take it away from us.
We can not render G-d's judgement null and void.
I don't think He would like that...much.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Apostates were never true believers, that is why they left the faith. And Christians will all endure to the end, its called the perseverance of the saints or the "eternal security of the believer."

One thing I am sure of and you are not is that your grace plus works counterfeit gospel will not add one millisecond to your time in heaven. "Saved by grace through faith and that not of yourself it is the gift of God." Eph2:8

You have too much pride to ever accept that you will never be good enough to enter heaven on your own merit, a pity.

Epheasians1:13,14
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory."

Philippians1:6
6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Who has ever said I will enter heaven on my own merit. Did I ever say that? That is why I am a Christian because I believe it is Jesus that ensures my entrance into heaven, not me. It is by the grace of Jesus Christ that I am saved in the KOG. All I have ever said about works is that you better have a trail of good works or you will be found to be a make believer. Good works follow the true believer because the Holy Spirit is engaged in helping the true believer walk the path that Jesus has laid out for us to walk. Good works are part of that walk.

Like I say, if good works do not follow your baptism of the spirit, then you never had a baptism of the spirit and you are a make believer. Am I wrong or am I right?
 
May 20, 2018
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There are countless actions we can complete while in this temporal Tabernacle of clay that we believe may glorify God. We receive crowns for those in which we will humbly and gratefully lay at the feet of our good Lord in heaven. But THEE work of God is to believe in the name of Jesus Christ.
All good gifts come from the Father of Lights, but THEE gift of God is eternal life.
The Love of God is what we must do our physical good works in to make it so the works become eternal and not temporal. That is why if our works are not done in love they profit nothing.
Our belief in the truth is revealed to us by the eternal spirit of truth. That is the secure eternal work granted by God that gives eternal life.
This is what I believe in my own words what I believe is revealed to me by the Spirit granted to me through the grace, love, and mercy of God.
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
418
83
B...,
Willful or un-willful...one must repent for our sins as we travel thru life. Remember, G-d will judge us after this earthly physical death. Once He does that and we receive eternal salvation...no one can take it away from us.
We can not render G-d's judgement null and void.
I don't think He would like that...much.
In ancient times kings would seal their correspondences. A ring or stamp would be pressed into resin upon the document so that the recipient would know who sent it.

The same is with us, as when we were redeemed in Christ God set his seal upon us. He sent his holy spirit to indwell the believe and guide us into his truth and service.
He chose us to be in him before the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4 (ESV)
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

He sealed us with the promise that the covenant of eternal salvation affords. We do not wait to go to Heaven and then find out if we are saved. We were saved the moment we believed. John 3:16. We have immortal life because we believe. And that is what it means to have eternal salvation. We are saved from the second death, that of the soul that was dead in its sin prior to redemption of it.
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
Judas is the perfect example of an apostate he worked along side of Jesus and the eleven disciples for three years and yet was only pretending to be a follower of Jesus. The eleven disciples never new Judas was a pretend disciple until Jesus reveal it to His chosen disciples.

John6:70
Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!"

Please explain, "stage apostates" thank you.
is there such a thing as "fake apostate", because that's what I mean, compared to "true apostate", and Judas is an example of a true apostate
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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I do not pick holes in what the Lord has done. How can you pick holes in what the Lord has done. What I try to point out is the misinterpretation of what people believe the Lord has done and what people need to do to have EL.
That is not your job , it is the job of the Holy Spirit ...It is our duty to check if we are in the faith , no one can do that for us...God calls us , it is Gods hand that we are in where NO ONE can snatch us from , does that not in it`s self tell you we have assurance , it is God who keeps us , the more I read His word , the more I hear His voice , those who are not His sheep do not read the word , do not feed on the word , who are you actually addressing to say we do not have Eternal life when Jesus says we do , for we are in Him , we are chosen , we are Gods people ...

There are people out there like the false branches who cling to the tree , like the crowds who followed Jesus just to be fed on fish and bread , they did not want our LORD , they just wanted food , they fell away , just like those who fall away , because they were never with our LORD...
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Who has ever said I will enter heaven on my own merit. Did I ever say that? That is why I am a Christian because I believe it is Jesus that ensures my entrance into heaven, not me. It is by the grace of Jesus Christ that I am saved in the KOG. All I have ever said about works is that you better have a trail of good works or you will be found to be a make believer. Good works follow the true believer because the Holy Spirit is engaged in helping the true believer walk the path that Jesus has laid out for us to walk. Good works are part of that walk.

Like I say, if good works do not follow your baptism of the spirit, then you never had a baptism of the spirit and you are a make believer. Am I wrong or am I right?
This thread is not talking about what you do after you are saved, baptism, bible study, ministry, etc. So what on earth does, "Not By Works", mean to you? You do not seem to be able to separate being born again from your practice, our daily walk.

These are two separate events that happen to the believer, you are mixing, "saved by grace", with your daily walk, our practice. We are saved by grace. "Not By Works", why can you not say that we are saved by grace, "Not By Works", a simple idea but difficult to accept no doubt.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
You always ignore James 2.
The whole Bible not just your favorite parts.

James 2 AMPC
17 So also faith, if it does not have works (deeds and actions of obedience to back it up), by itself is destitute of power (inoperative, dead).
18 But someone will say [to you then], You [say you] have faith, and I have [good] works. Now you show me your [alleged] faith apart from any [good] works [if you can], and I by [good] works [of obedience] will show you my faith.
 
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theanointedsinner

Guest
welcome Endoscopy to the thread where you only need to read the first 10 page (lots of back and forth arguing) of this forum, fast forward up to here and you know everything there is to know about this thread