Not By Works

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stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,606
1,787
113
So wonderful to see you back here.

It's funny.
You don't realise the people you have missed until they come back.

This site albeit a discussion forum is also a community.
A virtual church.
For some this forum is their church.

We need to remember that.
Maybe send a PM, just to check in and say "Hello, how are you doing?

God bless you precious lady.
Thank you for coming back and bringing your wisdom with you.
Sorry I did not PM you when I hadn't seen you for a while.
Thank you Bill for this post. It's no problem....sometimes one needs alone time.

Other times I need to ask for prayer. This last few weeks I should of done that...was really sick.

I see a problem with the faith movement that I hadn't before. It can be interpreted as being strong in ones self walk and not being humble enough to ask for help. It's certainly not the spirit of love working that makes the body one in the Lord. Am seeing things in a much different light. Brighter. lol

Blessings to you!
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,606
1,787
113
I know that I speak about symbols probably moreso than most here, but I have a question that I see correlates with law-grace.

Why would the Lord tell Adam not to eat from that tree of knowledge of good and evil?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
I know that I speak about symbols probably moreso than most here, but I have a question that I see correlates with law-grace.

Why would the Lord tell Adam not to eat from that tree of knowledge of good and evil?
There are two possible reasons that I know of:

1. God wanted Adam to try himself and be a representative of the human race.
Would he be able to defeat satan and obey God?

2. It's not good for man to know evil. It was far better when he knew only the good. God wanted to protect Adam, but Adam rejected the protection. We see the result....
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,606
1,787
113
There are two possible reasons that I know of:

1. God wanted Adam to try himself and be a representative of the human race.
Would he be able to defeat satan and obey God?

2. It's not good for man to know evil. It was far better when he knew only the good. God wanted to protect Adam, but Adam rejected the protection. We see the result....
Interesting views...

What I am seeing is separation. When united with the tree of life, partaking of the fruit....is this not being one with God, Gods grace? The focus is on God...and the tree of life does represent the Son.

To know good and evil is to put mans focus on self. That causes a cutoff from spiritual life. And man becomes physical. And the result of the focus on self is to view God as the harsh taskmaster, for the council of the Jews in Jerusalem spoke of the law being that which man could never live up to.

The only way man can be like God is to have His nature birthed in us.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
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I agree with all you've said.
Josh McDowell was one of the first authors I read after I was saved back in the mid-seventies.

There is one statement you make that I understand but cannot find in the N.T.
This idea of "positional".
Could you list some verses?

I DO believe we are positionally justified, if I understand the term correctly.
However, I don't understand how we could be positionally sanctified if Jesus did indeed leave us with instructions to follow.

IOW, if I don't do anything of what God would want me to do,,,am I still positionally sanctified?
Hi Fran, our position in Christ is Justification by the imputed righteousness of Christ; Jesus Christ righteousness becomes our righteousness and this is the reason we are declared "Not Guilty", or "Justified" before a Holy God. When God looks at each born again believer He sees His Son Jesus Christ and we are pronounced "Not Guilty", before God's court of justice.

It is not by anything a Christian can merit to receive our Justification it is only through the righteousness of our Savior that we are pronounced not guilty. Our position before God is Justified by the imputed righteousness of His Son; "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ." (Rom8:1).

You can see why the people who insist that they need to "add works to God's grace" is foolishly wrong. Fruit or works are "Evidence" that God has saved us, we are saved by grace alone, "Not By Works", I am speaking only about "how we are saved", and not about putting our daily practice in Christ to work. You cannot mix your position in Christ with your practice in Christ, apples and oranges.

There are many more bible verses which speak of our "position in Christ",

Genesis15:6
And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

Jeremiah23:6
In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: The Lord is our righteousness.’

Philippians3:9
"And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith."

Romans4:5
However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is "credited" as righteousness."

Romans4:6
Just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

2Corinthians5:21
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that "in him we might become the righteousness of God"

Romans4:25
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

1Corinthians1:30
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, "our righteousness", holiness and redemption."
 

Milee777

Active member
Dec 24, 2018
173
120
43
Our works cannot save us,for our works is as filthy rags,and there is none that does good,no not one,and all are sinners and come short of the glory of God.

So no matter what we do we cannot ever do good enough to receive salvation.

In that position the only thing we can do to correct this position is to have faith,that is why we are saved by faith for that is all we can do,for our works cannot do it.

All we have to do is believe.

Paul said we are not saved by works,but by accepting Christ,which he was addressing Gentiles,and their false religions,that thought they could have favor with God by their religious ways,but Paul said you are not saved by those works but by confessing Christ.

Paul was speaking from a fleshy perspective,not saved by works,and James is speaking from a spiritual perspective,accepting Christ,and being led of the Spirit,justified by works and not faith alone.

If a person does confess Christ,they only have to love people for love is the fulfilling of the law,which is what James is saying,and that is why he said if you do not feed someone when you can,then how do you have faith,and any work they would do apart from that,loving people,like if they go by Old Testament physical ordinances,or do something that another religion would do has no bearing on their salvation,but a waste of time.

Paul,not saved by works,James,but led of the Spirit loving people to have faith active in our life.
Are you banned?.. Is this guy banned?.. Why..? Am new here and some people have 'banned' written under their names. This guy has written things based on Scripture.
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
70
48
If you did not want to do anything for God then one would have to question if one indeed is positionally justified.

There is a difference between being disobedient and having no interest in wanting to obedient at all.
What are you talking about?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,259
3,719
113
The book is under Christian Forums page...scroll down to Christian Blogs and there is the book.....and that is a big question.....the book does not cover that concept and is primarily aimed at the timing of the resurrection/change.....Of the top of my head...I DO BELIEVE THE FOLLOWING...

a. Christ sits on the literal throne of David in Jerusalem ruling with a rod of iron for 1000 years

b. The remnant of Israel and possibly some Gentiles that come out the other side of wrath in their physical bodies will repopulate the waste cities of the planet

c. The above found in B will have children that will be given to the age of 100 to repent and acknowledge Christ

d. Those who do not will be the number gathered by Satan for the fibal battle when he is allowed out of the pit for a season to gather them together against God

d. The age of man will again be extended like it was in the beginning...I.E. people living longer

e. Many anomolous events like Lions and sheep feeding together etc

f. People must come once a year and worship or the rain is witheld etc.

g. There will be no satanic influence during this time

h. Honestly have a hard time seeing the O.T. covenant reinstated, but rather will be referenced at the Great White Throne judgment of God as described in Rev. 20

i. Not sure on the animal sacrifices....off the top of my head without study....No because they all pointed to Christ who now sits openly on the throne.

The above subject to change based upon more knowledge!


On that i. here is my opinion, because of this verse.

Daniel 9:27 (HCSB)
27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”


That is FUTURE PROPHECY, which would be the 70 Week of Daniel, after the Church-age ends. This Dictator that makes a PEACE TREATY with ISRAEL, which WILL BE BIG NEWS on EVERY TV CHANNEL, and in all probability be the SINGLE RULER over the European Union, after several more of their MEMBERS PULL OUT like Britain did. GOD's Prophecies have a tendency to be ACCURATE TO THE DAY, so it wouldn't surprise me that after that PEACE TREATY, giving ISRAEL permission to BUILD the THIRD TEMPLE, makes Headline NEWS, exactly 3.5 YEARS LATER, that Antichrist puts an end to the Sacrifice at the Third Temple. He Takes Over the Temple demanding that EVERYONE including the Priests of ISRAEL, worship him, instead of GOD, or be BEHEADED. If it takes a year to build that Temple, then there would be 2.5 years of Sacrifice in the Temple.



What do I think the above Abomination of Desolation will be? First of all, the High Priest had a ROPE around his ankle, when he went into the Holy of Holies, to sprinkle the blood of the Sacrifice on the Mercy Seat. WHY? Because it would defile the Holy of Holies to leave a Dead Body in there for more than a couple of minutes. So they had to drag him out QUICKY, if he died in there. NOW, what if the Antichrist decides to EXECUTE the Priests on top of the wing of the Temple, with a guillotine, for all the world to see. Would that not be the Abomination of Desolation ? ? ?

 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,146
20,066
113
Hush, sinner.



"Be ye perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:48)

Okay. Now do what it says - go be as perfect as God.



"Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)

Do you still sin?

Then you're in deeeeeep trouble.



"All who rely on observing the Law are under a curse.." (Galatians 3:10)

Soooo...no thanks. I'd rather not be cursed, thank-you.
Amen brother.....JESUS became a curse for us as he hung on the tree...Seoche rejects this truth......and inserts self into the equation.....!!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,146
20,066
113
"If we are led by the Spirit, we are not under the Law" (Galatians 5:18)

"Christ is the end of the Law." (Romans 10:4)

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the Law: for by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified. " (Galatians 2:16)

"Knowing this, that the Law is not made for a righteous man.." (1 Timothy 1:9)

"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the Law, but under Grace." (Romans 6:14)

"Clearly no one who relies on the Law is justified before God, because "the righteous will live by faith. The Law is not based on faith.." (Galatians 3:11-12)

"I do not set aside the Grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the Law, Christ died for nothing!" (Galatians 2:21)

Clear enough?
They (the workers for, Cainologists, salvation losers and Pharisees) will not understand it nor embrace it......their Jesus needs assistance and help.....his work on our behalf is not sufficient......!!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,146
20,066
113
On that i. here is my opinion, because of this verse.

Daniel 9:27 (HCSB)
27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”


That is FUTURE PROPHECY, which would be the 70 Week of Daniel, after the Church-age ends. This Dictator that makes a PEACE TREATY with ISRAEL, which WILL BE BIG NEWS on EVERY TV CHANNEL, and in all probability be the SINGLE RULER over the European Union, after several more of their MEMBERS PULL OUT like Britain did. GOD's Prophecies have a tendency to be ACCURATE TO THE DAY, so it wouldn't surprise me that after that PEACE TREATY, giving ISRAEL permission to BUILD the THIRD TEMPLE, makes Headline NEWS, exactly 3.5 YEARS LATER, that Antichrist puts an end to the Sacrifice at the Third Temple. He Takes Over the Temple demanding that EVERYONE including the Priests of ISRAEL, worship him, instead of GOD, or be BEHEADED. If it takes a year to build that Temple, then there would be 2.5 years of Sacrifice in the Temple.



What do I think the above Abomination of Desolation will be? First of all, the High Priest had a ROPE around his ankle, when he went into the Holy of Holies, to sprinkle the blood of the Sacrifice on the Mercy Seat. WHY? Because it would defile the Holy of Holies to leave a Dead Body in there for more than a couple of minutes. So they had to drag him out QUICKY, if he died in there. NOW, what if the Antichrist decides to EXECUTE the Priests on top of the wing of the Temple, with a guillotine, for all the world to see. Would that not be the Abomination of Desolation ? ? ?

My view......the first 1185 days of the 70th week was fulfilled by the earthly ministry if Jesus unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel......all that is left is the 1335 days of Daniel 12.....
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,259
3,719
113
My view......the first 1185 days of the 70th week was fulfilled by the earthly ministry if Jesus unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel......all that is left is the 1335 days of Daniel 12.....

No wonder you are so messed up on the Endtimes. The 70th Week of Daniel has not even begun yet. BUT IT WILL with the Signing of the Peace Treaty with ISRAEL, by the leader of the Revived Roman Empire.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,146
20,066
113
I know that I speak about symbols probably moreso than most here, but I have a question that I see correlates with law-grace.

Why would the Lord tell Adam not to eat from that tree of knowledge of good and evil?
An even deeper thought.....why place man in the garden and give him the option knowing full well the end result.....

Now that is the deeper question......and in my view alluded to and answered in scripture........for those willing to take the blinders off!