Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,288
4,241
113
Ah, lets see now - I would suggest that if OSAS is true, then there should be a verse that says that once eternal life is given that God will never take it away. Can you give a verse that states that ETERNAL LIFE cannot be lost, forfeited, walked away from, or misplaced?

It is like I said elsewhere, we must start with Scripture and develop doctrine from there. Let's not start with doctrine and then ask others to find Scriptures to disprove our doctrine.

Chester, now you are NOT THINKING. It is NOT ETERNAL if it can BE LOST. I think you know this, but it is the human spirit that has Eternal Life in IT. The Body will Die, then it will be raised ETERNAL.



Here is the evidence that YOU ASKED FOR:

Ecclesiastes 3:11 (HCSB)
11 He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also put eternity in their hearts [human spirit], but
man cannot discover the work God has done from beginning to end.

Isaiah 46:10 (HCSB)
10 I declare the end from the beginning, and from long ago what is not yet done, saying:
My plan will take place, and I will do all My will.*

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.*

John 10:26-30 (HCSB)
26 But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice,
I know them [Born Again], and they follow Me.
28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*[.SELF IS INCLUDED IN NO ONE.]
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”


Hebrews 13:5 (HCSB)
5 Your life should be free from the love of money. Be satisfied with what you have, for He Himself has said,
I will never leave you or forsake you.*


John 14:16-17 (NKJV)
16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- *
17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.



Paul Harvey: "AND THAT IS THE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . REST OF THE STORY!"
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
John 17:12 NASB
Amen,

Only two men have been fiven that title,

Judas the betrayer

And the final leader of the gentile beast system or as many call him the antichrist.
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
Dude she did answer you, now your looking foolish.
Dude....your looking foolish for saying Judas never was saved. Yet he had the power of the Holy ghost given to him By Jesus ...tell me you guys are teenagers with no education and or ability to read and this will make sense
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Dude....your looking foolish for saying Judas never was saved. Yet he had the power of the Holy ghost given to him By Jesus ...tell me you guys are teenagers with no education and or ability to read and this will make sense

First off she answered you, and you went off on her saying she did not, (just because you did. Ot agree wih her does not mean she did. Ot answer you) your failure to admit makes you look bad and turning it on me makes it even worse

Second, you have a habitual thief who robbed jesus for three years and the son of perdition saved (so who is foolish?)

And news flash, jesus did not give them the holy spirit, no one had the hs until pentecost, the HS just healed or did whatever when they prayed.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Judas never believed jesus came to take care of his sin, he came to jesus thinking he would free the people from rome, as soon as judas realised jesus would not do that, he turned like an impostor turns. And turned jesus in for a few bucks.

When push came to shove, the rest stayed, why? As peter said, we have dome to know that you have the words of eternal life.
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
First off she answered you, and you went off on her saying she did not, (just because you did. Ot agree wih her does not mean she did. Ot answer you) your failure to admit makes you look bad and turning it on me makes it even worse

Second, you have a habitual thief who robbed jesus for three years and the son of perdition saved (so who is foolish?)

And news flash, jesus did not give them the holy spirit, no one had the hs until pentecost, the HS just healed or did whatever when they prayed.
i didnt go off on nobody, i said she should read it agian...........

Matthew 10:1 (KJV)
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

What do you reckon they had?

you think maybe since the Holy ghost was given to Jesus without measure......thats what he gave them?

 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
Yeah i hear that alot

Only one issue

If he gives me eternal life the moment i believe

If he says the moment i believe i will never hunger or thirst, i will never die, i have eternal life

If he says at the moment i believe i will be raised (not might)

Then your theory falls flat. Because i can not havr those things in my possession the moment i believe if they can be lost

Fact is, you call god a liar, saying those things are not true

He never said might in any od those things.

Nice try, but nope.
Paul was worried that some of them may be deceived just like eve was deceived.

...But I AM AFRAID that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
i didnt go off on nobody, i said she should read it agian...........
In your own words

Haaaaa can't answer the questions so you give me a red x
I am sorry man, i can not take you serious if your going to act that way then deny it.
Matthew 10:1 (KJV)
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

What do you reckon they had?

you think maybe since the Holy ghost was given to Jesus without measure......thats what he gave them?
How could they have he hs if the hs did not come until pentecost?

Your drawing at straws man. The hs does not have to be in you to heal people.

And your assuming judas even did that, we are not told one way or the other.


Judas was a thief man, good to know you think habitual thiefs will get to heaven.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
so i guess calling him "satan" was lessor

is satan doomed to destruction?
So peter was doomed to destruction,

Or was jesus using a figure of speach to get peters attention?.

I guess he is in hell too?

Man, i am starting to worry,
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
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So peter was doomed to destruction,

Or was jesus using a figure of speach to get peters attention?.

I guess he is in hell too?

Man, i am starting to worry,
she said Judas was called the son of perdition.........i said Jesus called Peter "satan"

and asked the question trying to find out what she felt like the difference was?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
she said Judas was called the son of perdition.........i said Jesus called Peter "satan"

and asked the question trying to find out what she felt like the difference was?
If you do not know the difference. ......

I mean really, your a pastor and do not know the difference?
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
In your own words



I am sorry man, i can not take you serious if your going to act that way then deny it.

How could they have he hs if the hs did not come until pentecost?

Your drawing at straws man. The hs does not have to be in you to heal people.

And your assuming judas even did that, we are not told one way or the other.

Judas was a thief man, good to know you think habitual thiefs will get to heaven.
I,do not see son of perdition in that post, or that peter was doomed to destruction.

Man, your searching to hard, and your starting to make mistakes.
If you do not know the difference. ......

I mean really, your a pastor and do not know the difference?
yes i know the difference...............notice the question i asked her..............."trying to find out what she felt like the difference was?"

thats called having a dialogue................is that ok???? you know......asking questions????

i didnt know you was her knight in shinny armor coming to her rescue to save the.

is this dcon or EG i'm having a hard time figuring out who i'm talking to
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
Acts 1:15-17 (KJV)
15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
17
For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

If Judas wasn't saved at one point, there is no reason to believe the rest of the 11 was either.

Acts 1:25 (KJV)
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

the OSAS deceivers want to tell you that Judas was never saved

plains scripture says v25 Judsas by transgression fell

Judas didn't start out being a thief................he fell to that............

don't be deceived friends if Judas fell, so can you and I
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
Dude....your looking foolish for saying Judas never was saved. Yet he had the power of the Holy ghost given to him By Jesus ...tell me you guys are teenagers with no education and or ability to read and this will make sense
Dude...what do you make of this:

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:22-23)

Pastor, my eye.
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
the real meaning of eternal life

John 17:1-3 (KJV)
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 John 2:3-6 (KJV)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.



1 John 5:11-12 (KJV)
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

2 John 1:9 (KJV)
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


Eternal life, is not something abstract and separable from the abiding presence of Christ.
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
Dude...what do you make of this:

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:22-23)

Pastor, my eye.
Are you saying Jesus never knew Judas?

Acts 1:15-17 (KJV)
15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

If Judas wasn't saved at one point, there is no reason to believe the rest of the 11 was either.

Acts 1:25 (KJV)
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

the OSAS deceivers want to tell you that Judas was never saved

plains scripture says v25 Judsas by transgression fell

Judas didn't start out being a thief................he fell to that............

don't be deceived friends if Judas fell, so can you and I
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
Are you saying Jesus never knew Judas?

Acts 1:15-17 (KJV)
15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.


If Judas wasn't saved at one point, there is no reason to believe the rest of the 11 was either.

Acts 1:25 (KJV)
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.


the OSAS deceivers want to tell you that Judas was never saved

plains scripture says v25 Judsas by transgression fell

Judas didn't start out being a thief................he fell to that............

don't be deceived friends if Judas fell, so can you and I
Jesus prayed regarding the Disciples: "“While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.” (John 17:12)

Which one doomed to destruction do ya think He was speaking of?

Pastor, my eye.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
You seriously just asked me this question????? You didn't learn that in Sunday school?????

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16 KJV
The question was rhetorical. :rolleyes: