Not By Works

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Oct 31, 2015
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And what does "become lost" mean?

Let’s look at the words Jesus used.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7



Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.


One of His sheep who becomes lost is a sinner in need of repentance.


Do you know what a sinner is?


Do the lost need salvation?




JPT
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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I didnt ignore it!

I just dont understand your response.

I know it says fall away, but you can fall away from right doctrine, all sorts of things. I'll believe you if I see fall away from faith or fall away from salvation!
1 Timothy 4:1-2

what do YOU think we could fall away from?
Isn't faith the gift from God?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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you weren't kidding..... my house is shaking and crackling

gettin hit now over here

powerful constant winds for awhile

The worst isn't even here yet. The real blasts are supposed to begin around 5:00 pm here. Gusts up to 60+ mph. Plus, add the snow that's coming, and we're in for a real mess.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Sorry mate will answer when you answer mine.
Asked well before you.

I'm not playing your game

I answered your question.


My answer was “because we love the Lord and love our brothers who may be wayward.”


That’s my answer.


If you don’t want to answer my question then great.

But don’t expect me to keep answering your endless questions when you refuse to answer mine.



Do the lost need salvation?




JPT
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I answered your question.


My answer was “because we love the Lord and love our brothers who may be wayward.”


That’s my answer.


If you don’t want to answer my question then great.

But don’t expect me to keep answering your endless questions when you refuse to answer mine.



Do the lost need salvation?




JPT
who goes looking for the lost sheep? the shepherd.

what does the Good Shepherd say when he finds the sheep?

" rejoice with me, I have found MY lost sheep".

did the sheep cease to belong to the Shephard while it was lost?

according to the Good Shephard , no. * MY LOST SHEEP.

if you care about the actual words of Jesus.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Do YOU promote OSAS?
Are you even aware of what it means??

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED....

NO MATTER WHAT.
Once saved, always saved/preservation of the saints. I believe those who are truly saved will remain saved. “No matter what” serms to imply that believers can continuously live like the devil, but end up saved anyway, which is a straw man argument.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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The worst isn't even here yet. The real blasts are supposed to begin around 5:00 pm here. Gusts up to 60+ mph. Plus, add the snow that's coming, and we're in for a real mess.


WE GOT HAMMERED LAST NIGHT with a FOOT of New SNOW here in Lincoln, NE. But it would have been a lot more, because it rained all afternoon, before it turned to SNOW. Where you from ?

1551037727689.jpeg

How about you DC, or are you still trying to dig out ? ? ?

My sister, in Billings, MT. says they just got dug out, and they are going to get another 8 inches tonight.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Don't confuse believing the gospel and becoming saved with ongoing sanctification which follows.

It IS shoe-horning acts of obedience/works "into" salvation through faith when the end result is salvation by faith + works.
Salvation is by faith.
Ephesians 2:8-9 A free gift of God and which only HE can accomplish.

Salvation is kept by obeying God.
Deuteronomy 11:26 "Obey and you will be blessed. "

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According to Holman's Illustrated Bible Dictionary a succinct definition of biblical obedience is "to hear God's Word and act accordingly." Eerdman's Bible Dictionary states, "True 'hearing,' or obedience, involves the physical hearing that inspires the hearer, and a belief or trust that in turn motivates the hearer to act in accordance with the speaker's desires."

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In Jesus Christ we find the perfect model of obedience. As his disciples, we follow Christ's example as well as his commands. Our motivation for obedience is love:

If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15,
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And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him. (Romans 12:1,

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Jesus replied, "But even more blessed are all who hear the word of God and put it into practice."
Luke 11:28​

source: https://www.thoughtco.com/obedience-to-god-701962


If you can believe that, then you can believe anything!
Could you please tag the member and name the person on this thread that you believe is teaching salvation by works....Thanks.


Believe is not defined "as" obedience/works. Just because obeying is a manifestation of believing does not mean that believing is defined "as" multiple acts of obedience/works. Disobedience is also a manifestation of unbelief, yet unbelief is not defined "as" multiple acts of disobedience. Roman Catholics (as do all works-salvationists) make the error of defining faith "as" obedience/works. Here is an example below from a statement made by a Roman Catholic: :cautious:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

Of course, that statement above is absolutely FALSE and is a good example of "shoe horning" works "into" salvation through faith and the end result is salvation by faith + works.
Please stop talking about your Catholic aquaintences. I don't know why you do.
Perhaps you miss the catholic church?

We are NOT discussing the CC.


Strong's #4100:
pisteuo (pronounced pist-yoo'-o) from 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):--believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G4100/pisteuo.htm

Strong's #4102: pistis (pronounced pis'-tis) from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G4102/pistis.htm

You seem to get confused when comparing pistis and pisteuo with apethieo. I often hear works-salvationists quote John 3:36 in the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved "by" obedience/works and end up basically defining believe "as" obedience/works. In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the CSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.
I really don't care to discuss the Greek language MMD.

How about exegeting the verses in ENGLISH?

No matter which bible version you use...the result is the same...

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Hebrews 10:26-31
26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE ISMINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.”
31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,590
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I know it says fall away, but you can fall away from right doctrine, all sorts of things. I'll believe you if I see fall away from faith or fall away from salvation!
1 Timothy 4:1-2

what do YOU think we could fall away from?
Isn't faith the gift from God?
1 Timothy 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,


Oy vey! Well...... thanks.

I recant, repent and apologize! SORRY!
I know to keep my stupid mouth SHUT in the future!
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,725
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WE GOT HAMMERED LAST NIGHT with a FOOT of New SNOW here in Lincoln, NE. But it would have been a lot more, because it rained all afternoon, before it turned to SNOW.

View attachment 194934

How about you DC, or are you still trying to dig out ? ? ?

My sister, in Billings, MT. says they just got dug out, and they are going to get another 8 inches tonight.

and down here in Georgia, it is sunny and 66!!
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Once saved, always saved/preservation of the saints. I believe those who are truly saved will remain saved. “No matter what” serms to imply that believers can continuously live like the devil, but end up saved anyway, which is a straw man argument.
I don't know what a strawman arguement is....
but I do know what OSAS means.

It means that ONCE you're SAVED....
You will ALWAYS BE saved....and no one can take that from you...
NO MATTER WHAT.

We have posters right here on this thread that believe this...

Preservation of the saints is NOT the same thing.
Those that are reformed are some of the most obedient Christans I know.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I don't know what a strawman arguement is....
but I do know what OSAS means.

It means that ONCE you're SAVED....
You will ALWAYS BE saved....and no one can take that from you...
NO MATTER WHAT.

We have posters right here on this thread that believe this...

Preservation of the saints is NOT the same thing.
Those that are reformed are some of the most obedient Christans I know.
Regardless, I don’t tack on “no matter what” to OSAS, as if it means continuously live like the devil, but saved anyway. John makes a clear contrast between children of God and children of the devil (1 John 3:7-10).
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself; He can do only what He sees His Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."
(John 5:19)

the ensample He gave for us is to see what the Father is doing and join Him in His work.
He said take up His yoke, walking beside and with Him, not take up your own yoke and go plow that other pasture, that He Himself refuses to plow.


if i chase down a stray sheep, it is because that is what He is doing, and i follow Him.
if the man Christ Jesus does nothing but what the Father is doing, am i greater than Him??
Yes we are to be led by the Spirit, in which we practice righteousness, rather than be led by the desires of the flesh, whereby we practice the works of the flesh.




JPT

 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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NO ! IT is the Evidence that WE WERE SAVED the very moment the Holy Spirit came in, and in fact we were predestined that we would receive JESUS as LORD, before TIME BEGAN. I am not YELLING at you, that is CRITIC EMPHASIS, because it it TOO important for you to MISS.

OOPS !

That was supposed to be CRITICAL, SORRY UnderGrace
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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My Jesus finished His work on earth, and empowered His disciples with His Spirit to do the works He did, and to teach what He taught.


“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. John 14:12



Did Jesus preach the gospel to you?




JPT
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door,
I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me.
(Revelation 3:20)
The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
(John 10:12-13)
So, as the Holy Spirit says:
Today, if you hear His voice"
(Hebrews 3:7)
if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape,
if we turn away from Him that speaketh from heaven
(Hebrews 12:25)
for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
(Matthew 10:20)
For this is what the Sovereign Lord says:
I Myself will search for my sheep and look after them. As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after My sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness.
(Ezekiel 34:11-12)

 
Feb 24, 2019
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Why are we as Christians contantly attacked by our advasary if he thought we could never turn our back on God and be lost?

What is he trying to get us to do?

Do you think our advasary Satan knows what the Bible says?