Not By Works

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Aug 3, 2019
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in Colossians 2:16 "KJV"
sabbath is singular & holydays ((the feasts)) are differentiated from it.


Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath
(KJV)
your private misinterpretation is completely untenable.
Your inconsistent interpretation is why your'e so confused.

Paul's list in Colossians 2 is comprised of CEREMONIAL things: meat offerings, drink offerings, new moon observances, holy days as in those commemorating Israelite deliverance, "sabbath" yearly feast days....

Making "sabbath" of Colossians 2 pertain to the WEEKLY Sabbath which has nothing to do with the Mosaic ceremonial Law is not only inconsistent hermeneutics, but evidence of weak Biblical scholarship, which can be forgiven when one capitulates when shown the truth, but will not be for the stubborn in the day of judgment.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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all was light? really?
have you not even read Genesis?
or do you forget what you have read?


In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The earth was without form, and void; and darkness on the face of the deep.
(Genesis 1:1-2)
God divided the light from the darkness.
(Genesis 1:4)
God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night.
(Genesis 1:5)
So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
(Genesis 1:31)
I need to stop either over estimating your intelligence or underestimating your ability to grasp at straws. It should be plainly obvious to all that when I said "there was no shadows, all was light" I meant there was no shadow of "spiritual darkness" until sin entered the world.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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If you can find just ONE post where I appealed to the writings of EGW instead of Scripture in order to prove a doctrine as Biblical, I'll give you $1,000. Now, either collect your $1,000 or shut your mouth.
i was not referring to writings.

i mean the Sabbath leaning interpretation of Scripture.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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Licenteousness - Greek aselgeia -licentious behavior, extreme immorality, self abandonment, insolence, sensuality, wantoness, lacking moral restraint, "to live like a dog"usually refering to sexual behavior.

Funny how not one time can we find the word freedom.

as for freedom!!!

paul says we are free..

Gal 5: 5 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

Peter says we are free..

1 Peter 2: 16 Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.

face it my friend. Your legalism will not profit you..
LOOK UP FROM WHICH THE WORD IS DERIVED: IT MEANS "LICENSE" or "FREEDOM".
People were using grace as a license to sin, yes, even sexual sin. You who are OSAS ought to know this more than anyone what with that OSAS License to Sin.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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your present argument is that weekly ritual ceremonial inactivity of your flesh is greater than Christ and does not testify of Him.
No where did I ever teach keeping the Sabbath is greater than Jesus - it is the outward evidence of the inward rest in Jesus. Raise your hand if you knew Posthuman was as adept at total misrepresentation of what others say as he is misrepresenting what the Bible authors said!
if anything is greater than the Lord then it doesn't testify of Him, but He of it -- your present private teaching is that Christ is the shadow and ritual ceremonial weekly inactivity is the substance.
Nothing is greater than our Lord Jesus...won't you surrender your heart to Him and stop being a hearer of the law only? I mean, as hard as you fight against obedience to it, one wonders which side your playing on.
 
Aug 3, 2019
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i was not referring to writings.

i mean the Sabbath leaning interpretation of Scripture.
Sometimes the din of discussion gets a bit crazy, so let's recap:

1. In Colossians 2, Paul lists some things for which we are not to judge others.

2. Every thing on that list has to do with the Mosaic law of ceremonies and sacrifices: meat offerings, drink offerings, new moon observances, holy days of observance like Israel's deliverance from the Medo-Persian death decree, and "sabbaths" which can easily be seen referring to as the ceremonial yearly feast day "sabbaths" of Leviticus 23.

3. Instead of choosing consistency in interpretation, the ceremonial yearly Feast Day "sabbaths' of Leviticus 23 are rejected as pertaining to the "sabbaths" of Colossians 2, and the non-ceremonial weekly Sabbath of the fourth commandment is put in their place.

4. The argument is advanced that we are at liberty to ignore the weekly Sabbath and not judge others - the same Sabbath that will be kept in heaven for all eternity while not a single other thing from the Mosaic ceremonial Law will be kept for all eternity.

5. Those who do this expect their Biblical scholarship to be seen as "consistent, harmonious, non-agenda driven" scholarship.

Still not able to understand how something so easily seen as inconsistent has been missed by those who fight against John's directive that we "keep His commandments and do those things which are pleasing in His sight".
 
Aug 3, 2019
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Read the text then:
I HAVE...James cites two of the Ten Commandments and says if we break on we're guilty...thus proving the Ten Commandments are yet still binding upon the church, because it's ALWAYS going to be wrong to kill, steal, lie, etc.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Salvation by not trigger by work but work trigger by salvation

Save because Jesus in us than Jesus in us trigger fruit of loving work

That is why jame say

Jame 2
17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. [19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Good work not to prove to God that we have faith God know what is in our heart but to prove to ourself
So if we doubt if Jesus in us or not because we not see Jesus than we able to know if we love the needy or not
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Please don't lecture me about what is and isn't Biblical.

It is you who continues to argue the wicked can partake of "agape" love so that the "many" of Matthew 24:12-13 KJV who wind up lost because their "agape" grows cold and dead can be made to be the wicked, a desperate but failed attempt to preserve OSAS from destruction by deceptively hiding the fact that these "many" can only have been saints -- because the same Bible you say contradicts me completely overthrows your nonsense in 1 John 5:3 KJV which says "agape" is demonstrated only by happily keeping God's commandments, the same commandments Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't keep even if they wanted to.
wow your pet argument was blown up years ago but you just can't drop it.

agape is the noun form of the verb agapao.
fact.
no private interpretation of yours can change the facts.


this is the commandment:
"
love ((agapao)) one another as I have loved ((agapao)) you"
is Jesus commanding strictly worldly love? your argument suggests He is.



furthermore Matthew 24 is strictly about Jews. it is a tribulational context.
there are 3 kinds of Jews: unbelieving, Messianic, and remnant.
but you aren't mature enough to have such discussions, yet.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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LOOK UP FROM WHICH THE WORD IS DERIVED: IT MEANS "LICENSE" or "FREEDOM".
unlike some people. I looked up the actual Greek word from which the english word was translated.

You can translate it however you wish. I will keep the the word as written.

People were using grace as a license to sin, yes, even sexual sin. You who are OSAS ought to know this more than anyone what with that OSAS License to Sin.
OSAS is not a license to sin, get off your high horse strawman.

We own up to your sins while you deny yours and pump your chest as a self righteous pharisee thanking God your not like the people who have faith in God and his promise..

your the one excusing your sin
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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John 15


5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.


Apart from Jesus we can do nothing

Yes Christian bear fruit of loving work, but not by ourselves, we not save by our work but by faith, by abide in jesus
How do we know Jesus in us
By the fruit
If good fruit out from you than you know Jesus in you
Good deed from you is not by you, you can do nothing
It is by Jesus
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Salvation by faith not by work, it doesn't mean let rob the bank any way salvation not by work
The problem is if you save and Jesus in you, you will be like Him, not handsome like Him but you love more like His

You start have a heart to helping the needy
That desire is by Jesus in you
You don't have desire to rob the bank anymore

There is the correlation between faith and good work
Salvation by faith not work but if you save, Jesus in you will produce love not hate
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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Salvation by faith not by work, it doesn't mean let rob the bank any way salvation not by work
The problem is if you save and Jesus in you, you will be like Him, not handsome like Him but you love more like His

You start have a heart to helping the needy
That desire is by Jesus in you
You don't have desire to rob the bank anymore

There is the correlation between faith and good work
Salvation by faith not work but if you save, Jesus in you will produce love not hate
the issue is not works

those who have faith WILL (not might) have works

The issue is is their true saving faith..

Many people have works, but have no faith. they are no more saved than the people who have no works..
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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the issue is not works

those who have faith WILL (not might) have works

The issue is is their true saving faith..

Many people have works, but have no faith. they are no more saved than the people who have no works..
Yep, no faith not produce good work because apart from Jesus we can do nothing
Non Christian may helping the needy, it was done by pure heart?
Only Jesus in us will make our fruit pure
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
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unlike some people. I looked up the actual Greek word from which the english word was translated.

You can translate it however you wish. I will keep the the word as written.


OSAS is not a license to sin, get off your high horse strawman.

We own up to your sins while you deny yours and pump your chest as a self righteous pharisee thanking God your not like the people who have faith in God and his promise..

your the one excusing your sin
His real life portrayal of the Pharisee in
Luke 18:9-14 is astonishing ~ and sad.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Paul's list in Colossians 2 is comprised of CEREMONIAL things:
Ritual physical inactivity is ceremonial.
Physical sabbath observation is not moral, it's ceremonial - just like circumcision, and just like the Lord's supper or baptism. These are rites, not ethical precepts.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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the issue is not works

those who have faith WILL (not might) have works

The issue is is their true saving faith..

Many people have works, but have no faith. they are no more saved than the people who have no works..
I have an issue with a saved person WILL do good works. I know there WILL be fruit from being saved.. patience, kindness, self control.. etc.. that is the result of the Holy Spirit being in someones spirit.. but good works don't automatically happen.. the believer has to rely on the Holy Spirit.

Guess it is the fruit vs works thing. I suppose you could say they are the same thing.. but the fruit are not necessarily outwardly visible works.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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I have an issue with a saved person WILL do good works. I know there WILL be fruit from being saved.. patience, kindness, self control.. etc.. that is the result of the Holy Spirit being in someones spirit.. but good works don't automatically happen.. the believer has to rely on the Holy Spirit.

Guess it is the fruit vs works thing. I suppose you could say they are the same thing.. but the fruit are not necessarily outwardly visible works.
Does not fruit lead to works?
I agree it's as a result of the Holy Spirit working in us, as we ask him to.

A saved person is not saved by their works.
A unsaved person is not saved by their works either.

Both of the above can produce the same works out of pure love but only one is saved.

The fact is that both do good works.