Not Raptured - Slaughtered!!

[PlainWord]

This will be a very unpopular post with many critics.

The Christian Church is not going to be Raptured. There is no single passage in the Bible that teaches ANYONE new goes to heaven without dying. There is no passage showing us a "raptured" church in heaven. The Book of Revelation, which is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, contains no passage about the church being raptured, before, during or immediately after the Great Tribulation. There is no teaching where the long taught message of Tribulation for Believers is reversed. There is no lesson where the concept of a Tribulation Era Saint verses a regular saint is taught.

So, what is taught??? The massive slaughter of the Christian world. The secular world is becoming increasingly evil, more rapidly by the day. This secular world already hates much of what we Christians stand for. The Muslim world hates us and many of our politicians in the US hate us.

Jesus actually teaches that we will be hated by all nations and that sons will turn on fathers and many will betray one another. Revelation 7 shows us a Great Multitude of Believes in heaven who "come out of Great Tribulation." The only way for them to get there is by being killed. Paul teaches that the church will "fall away" which can also be translated "removed." Paul does not say removed by Rapture or any divine intervention before the tribulation.

Satan first wages war with Israel but they are protected so He then goes after their offspring - the Church. We know the saints are overcome. The slaughter the Jews faced at the hands of Hitler will seem like a walk in the park compared to what is heading the church's way. Time to wake up people.

 

[KJV1611]

What do you think about this verse?

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[p_rehbein]

...uh, not so much "unpopular" as not believed.......goodness.......how can so much wrong be put into a few short paragraphs?

 

[StoneThrower]

There is no single passage in the Bible that teaches ANYONE new goes to heaven without dying. There is no passage showing us a "raptured" church in heaven.

…51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.…

1st cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

What does the word Raised mean?

1 Thessalonians 4:17
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;

What does the tern caught up mean

1st cor 15:52
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;

What does the word resurection mean?

 

[Jackson123]

This will be a very unpopular post with many critics.

The Christian Church is not going to be Raptured. There is no single passage in the Bible that teaches ANYONE new goes to heaven without dying. There is no passage showing us a "raptured" church in heaven. The Book of Revelation, which is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, contains no passage about the church being raptured, before, during or immediately after the Great Tribulation. There is no teaching where the long taught message of Tribulation for Believers is reversed. There is no lesson where the concept of a Tribulation Era Saint verses a regular saint is taught.

So, what is taught??? The massive slaughter of the Christian world. The secular world is becoming increasingly evil, more rapidly by the day. This secular world already hates much of what we Christians stand for. The Muslim world hates us and many of our politicians in the US hate us.

Jesus actually teaches that we will be hated by all nations and that sons will turn on fathers and many will betray one another. Revelation 7 shows us a Great Multitude of Believes in heaven who "come out of Great Tribulation." The only way for them to get there is by being killed. Paul teaches that the church will "fall away" which can also be translated "removed." Paul does not say removed by Rapture or any divine intervention before the tribulation.

Satan first wages war with Israel but they are protected so He then goes after their offspring - the Church. We know the saints are overcome. The slaughter the Jews faced at the hands of Hitler will seem like a walk in the park compared to what is heading the church's way. Time to wake up people.

rev 13
[SUP]8[/SUP] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
[SUP]9[/SUP] If any man have an ear, let him hear.
[SUP]10[/SUP] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


Look like not every Christian will be kill, some just go to prison.

It may similar to christian at China in the communist era or in the middle east now. Some killed some go to prison, some hide his christian identity, it doesn't mean deny Jesus, just hide but if caught refuse to deny

 

[bikerchaz]

You are all right, there will be a time to come that will see most of us dead, and if we or others get through it then they will go without dying but there won't be many, Jesus said "Will I find faith upon the earth?"
We as a body of Christians are the body of Christ literally while He is away and as such are one of the two witnesses, the Christian church and the faith as a whole will be so deliberately persecuted it will be left for the world to see as a corps lying on the ground to be ridiculed. As for the other witness, the Jews as a nation and as a race and a faith will be overthrown.
Then the Rapture will occur as a final witness to the world before the Judgment.
My old mum used to say, that that was when we would have the wedding feast but that is just a bit of nostalgia.

 

[PlainWord]

What do you think about this verse?

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

That happens after the millennium, just before the eternal state. See verse 14, God is the one bringing those who sleep.

 

[bikerchaz]

That happens after the millennium, just before the eternal state. See verse 14, God is the one bringing those who sleep.

I was enjoying this thread, sadly I am not so much now. about the 'quote' Jesus said "comfort one another" there will be no comfort at the end of the millenium for those not included in Gods plans when the only thing we ARE told is " And God shall be all and in all"

 

[crossnote]

You are all right, there will be a time to come that will see most of us dead, and if we or others get through it then they will go without dying but there won't be many, Jesus said "Will I find faith upon the earth?"
We as a body of Christians are the body of Christ literally while He is away and as such are one of the two witnesses, the Christian church and the faith as a whole will be so deliberately persecuted it will be left for the world to see as a corps lying on the ground to be ridiculed. As for the other witness, the Jews as a nation and as a race and a faith will be overthrown.
Then the Rapture will occur as a final witness to the world before the Judgment.
My old mum used to say, that that was when we would have the wedding feast but that is just a bit of nostalgia.

Cute. Allegorize the two witnesses = Church+Israel; then anything goes. I can make up any endtime scenario, all I have to do is symbolize everything ...to the point it's all meaningless.

 

[StoneThrower]

That happens after the millennium, just before the eternal state. See verse 14, God is the one bringing those who sleep.

Postmillennialism was dead pretty much after WW1 going into WW2 they say its starting to make a resurgence. We see this with Dominion theology and Christus Victor theology the Muslims also think along the simalar lines that they can issue in the kingdom by their efforts.
The idea is that the gospel will go out, everyone will get converted, and that things will keep getting better and better, and than Christ will return.
In reality what we see is things keeping getting worse and worse.
So is that your view Postmillennialism or is this coming from elsewhere? What are you trying to introduce us to?

 

[crossnote]

Postmillennialism was dead pretty much after WW1 going into WW2 they say its starting to make a resurgence. We see this with Dominion theology and Christus Victor theology the Muslims also think along the simalar lines that they can issue in the kingdom by their efforts.
The idea is that the gospel will go out, everyone will get converted, and that things will keep getting better and better, and than Christ will return.
In reality what we see is things keeping getting worse and worse.
So is that your view Postmillennialism or is this coming from elsewhere? What are you trying to introduce us to?

Hehe. Stonethrower, on your last question...think Alice and Wonderland. Have fun.

 

[bikerchaz]

Cute. Allegorize the two witnesses = Church+Israel; then anything goes. I can make up any endtime scenario, all I have to do is symbolize everything ...to the point it's all meaningless.

Hey whatever floats your boat. its good to disapprove but put nothing in its place. Correction is a good thing and we "should test the spirit".
Meaningless? It dose not matter. I will love Jesus till my ears fall off, till my life gives out and the last breath leaves my body. All I know for real is that I look forward to being with my Lord more than my life my wife or my kids and I would give my life for them as well.
When I stand before my Lord I am prepared to say "Thank you Jesus"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Cute. Allegorize the two witnesses = Church+Israel; then anything goes. I can make up any endtime scenario, all I have to do is symbolize everything ...to the point it's all meaningless.

why do you think we have so many senerio's?

You allegorize and you can make the word of God say anything you want.

 

[dcontroversal]

why do you think we have so many senerio's?

You allegorize and you can make the word of God say anything you want.

Because of a rejection of obvious truth in favor of fables and lies would seem to be the reason!

 

[crossnote]

Because of a rejection of obvious truth in favor of fables and lies would seem to be the reason!

it's a lazy way to do exegesis, no study involved...just ''imagine''.

 

[dcontroversal]

it's a lazy way to do exegesis, no study involved...just ''imagine''.

Yeah that seems to be the norm...along with a rejection of words, phrases and verses in context also seem to permeate heretical teachings......

 

[biscuit]

...uh, not so much "unpopular" as not believed.......goodness.......how can so much wrong be put into a few short paragraphs?

The man is completely lost .... poor thang!!

 

[PlainWord]

rev 13
[SUP]8[/SUP] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
[SUP]9[/SUP] If any man have an ear, let him hear.
[SUP]10[/SUP]He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


Look like not every Christian will be kill, some just go to prison.

It may similar to christian at China in the communist era or in the middle east now. Some killed some go to prison, some hide his christian identity, it doesn't mean deny Jesus, just hide but if caught refuse to deny

Of course not every Christian gets killed during the tribulation but a ton do.

[h=3]A Multitude from the Great Tribulation[/h][SUP]9 [/SUP]After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” [SUP]11 [/SUP]All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, [SUP]12 [/SUP]saying:
“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I said to him, “Sir,[SUP][b][/SUP] you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. [SUP]16 [/SUP]They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; [SUP]17 [/SUP]for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters.[SUP][c][/SUP] And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

 

[Jackson123]

Of course not every Christian gets killed during the tribulation but a ton do.

A Multitude from the Great Tribulation

[SUP]9 [/SUP]After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” [SUP]11 [/SUP]All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, [SUP]12 [/SUP]saying:
“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I said to him, “Sir,[SUP][b][/SUP] you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. [SUP]16 [/SUP]They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; [SUP]17 [/SUP]for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters.[SUP][c][/SUP] And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

Yup, it is scary, be prepare now or we going to deny Him. Be strong now such an athletes prepare for the next competition.

I am talking to myself.

 

[PlainWord]

…51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.…

1st cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

What does the word Raised mean?

1 Thessalonians 4:17
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;

What does the tern caught up mean

1st cor 15:52
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;

What does the word resurection mean?

The resurrection and judgment occur on the LAST DAY. ON THE VERY LAST DAY. Thus these passages refer to that very last day on earth before the new heavens and earth. Think about it, when must everyone be in spiritual bodies, before the Tribulation or before God burns up the earth??

Do either passage provide a Pre-Trib Timing????? NO. So why put them there when we are given the timing for the resurrection in these and many other passages?

John 6:

[SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

[SUP]44 [/SUP]No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

[SUP]54 [/SUP]Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

John 12:

[SUP]48 [/SUP]He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Daniel 12:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.