I don't think there is a single sinless person in the world. But there is also something called willful sinning. If someone knows something they are doing is a sin and just continues to do it willfully never trying to overcome it or even being repentant of it that's the person who's in trouble. God also looks at the heart and the only person who would even want to willingly sin would be someone who's heart is not right with the Lord.
not under the law Galatians 5.
- Thread starter gotime
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Let me try to explain,
I do not believe we can work our way to heaven. In fact I don't believe we have anything to offer God in regards to salvation. it is all of Him through Christ.
I do not try to keep the law to be saved nor do I try to keep the law because I am saved.
I do not fight sin to be saved and I do not fight sin because I am saved. for both of those are legalistic in their approach. both I mean the last two sentences.
Fighting sin is the same as trying to keep the law.
I believe that it is through grace by faith in what Jesus has done at the cross and what Jesus is doing as our High Priest.
up to this point I think we can all agree.
its what happens after that seems to be the issue.
I believe that when we accept Jesus death for our sin by faith that our old man of sin is crucified with Him. I don't believe that is just a nice saying I believe that by faith we allow God to literally put our sinful nature to death. I don't know How He does it I simple Trust Him at his word and it happens.
I believe that with this we accept by faith that Jesus was raised again from the Grave and that same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead gives life to our mortal bodies, Christ in you the hope of Glory. again I don't believe they are simply nice words with no tangible results. and again I don't know how exactly Christ in you happens, I don't know how it is the Spirit comes into us and gives us life, I just trust His word and it happens as He promised.
So then what about this keeping the law stuff I have clearly spoken of before?
Well If I can't do it who does? Jesus does.
See I am dead in Christ I no longer live. I was the one who sinned against God, my nature not His. That nature is crucified with Him. That nature because of Christs love on the cross for me has been destroyed and I surrender it daily at the cross. and Daily his promises are proved true simply by trusting His word, not by works.
But also In Christ I am alive but not I but Christ in me. Christ loves perfectly, He never sins so He never breaks the great law of love not one part. He keeps the law perfectly. So it is Christ in me who does the works of obedience.
I can not boast because its not me its Him and his saving grace.
So when I hear you guys say no we can never keep the law I hear Christ is not sufficient. The cross is not enough. cause I don't base success on what man can do but what Christ has done.
See this is true rest. not only does this give us rest from the works of the law/legalism it also gives us rest from the flesh/sin.
When I listen to you guys I hear much about resting from legalism but no true rest from the flesh.
It seems to me that you think your flesh nature is stronger than the cross, that you think that faith is not enough to conquer the flesh in Christ.
I believe that the cross is sufficient and by faith our flesh is conquered in Christ.
SO again when I talk about keeping the law I mean it in the same sense Paul speaks of it, It is Christ doing it in you, His works not ours.
My experience is that this really works, again i don't know how it works I can't break it down for you. all I can say is just Trust His word and believe and He will preform it. You will begin to have victories that you never thought possible.
I believe the battle against the flesh is one of faith not works. our fight is not with sin or the flesh or to keep the law all these are the same thing. Our battle is to not get distracted from Jesus. to submit to Him every hour or every day.
Many sin because of unbelief. when those who understand what I am talking about sin it is because they take their eyes of Jesus.
My only goal is not to fight sin or keep the law, it is to learn to keep my focus on Jesus no matter what is around me no matter what life may through at me. this is the victory in Christ.
As peter walked on water so it is with us, while our eyes are on Jesus we can not fail for His power make all things possible. hope this helps some people
One more time to try make it clear. When I speak of Keeping the law I am speaking of the work of Christ in us by faith. not our works for Jesus.
I do not believe we can work our way to heaven. In fact I don't believe we have anything to offer God in regards to salvation. it is all of Him through Christ.
I do not try to keep the law to be saved nor do I try to keep the law because I am saved.
I do not fight sin to be saved and I do not fight sin because I am saved. for both of those are legalistic in their approach. both I mean the last two sentences.
Fighting sin is the same as trying to keep the law.
I believe that it is through grace by faith in what Jesus has done at the cross and what Jesus is doing as our High Priest.
up to this point I think we can all agree.
its what happens after that seems to be the issue.
I believe that when we accept Jesus death for our sin by faith that our old man of sin is crucified with Him. I don't believe that is just a nice saying I believe that by faith we allow God to literally put our sinful nature to death. I don't know How He does it I simple Trust Him at his word and it happens.
I believe that with this we accept by faith that Jesus was raised again from the Grave and that same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead gives life to our mortal bodies, Christ in you the hope of Glory. again I don't believe they are simply nice words with no tangible results. and again I don't know how exactly Christ in you happens, I don't know how it is the Spirit comes into us and gives us life, I just trust His word and it happens as He promised.
So then what about this keeping the law stuff I have clearly spoken of before?
Well If I can't do it who does? Jesus does.
See I am dead in Christ I no longer live. I was the one who sinned against God, my nature not His. That nature is crucified with Him. That nature because of Christs love on the cross for me has been destroyed and I surrender it daily at the cross. and Daily his promises are proved true simply by trusting His word, not by works.
But also In Christ I am alive but not I but Christ in me. Christ loves perfectly, He never sins so He never breaks the great law of love not one part. He keeps the law perfectly. So it is Christ in me who does the works of obedience.
I can not boast because its not me its Him and his saving grace.
So when I hear you guys say no we can never keep the law I hear Christ is not sufficient. The cross is not enough. cause I don't base success on what man can do but what Christ has done.
See this is true rest. not only does this give us rest from the works of the law/legalism it also gives us rest from the flesh/sin.
When I listen to you guys I hear much about resting from legalism but no true rest from the flesh.
It seems to me that you think your flesh nature is stronger than the cross, that you think that faith is not enough to conquer the flesh in Christ.
I believe that the cross is sufficient and by faith our flesh is conquered in Christ.
SO again when I talk about keeping the law I mean it in the same sense Paul speaks of it, It is Christ doing it in you, His works not ours.
My experience is that this really works, again i don't know how it works I can't break it down for you. all I can say is just Trust His word and believe and He will preform it. You will begin to have victories that you never thought possible.
I believe the battle against the flesh is one of faith not works. our fight is not with sin or the flesh or to keep the law all these are the same thing. Our battle is to not get distracted from Jesus. to submit to Him every hour or every day.
Many sin because of unbelief. when those who understand what I am talking about sin it is because they take their eyes of Jesus.
My only goal is not to fight sin or keep the law, it is to learn to keep my focus on Jesus no matter what is around me no matter what life may through at me. this is the victory in Christ.
As peter walked on water so it is with us, while our eyes are on Jesus we can not fail for His power make all things possible. hope this helps some people
One more time to try make it clear. When I speak of Keeping the law I am speaking of the work of Christ in us by faith. not our works for Jesus.
V
Here's the rub, though, Gotime. We don't think of death correctly.
Most of us think of death in terms of what happens to a physical body when it dies. It lays there. It cannot move. It cannot do anything. It is completely void of all power and ability. Death is, as far as this life goes, non-existence. The person is gone.
Now, all of that is true. But those traits of death are only applicable to the physical death of a physical body. Death is much more immeasurable than that.
Death is a condition. It is a state of being. It is a realm. Consequently, never think of death as non-existence. It is existence, but it is existence apart from God. It is conscious existence, able to function and move. Those who are dead can, and do, will and act, The spiritually dead -- the lost among us -- function. They operate. They perform. But they do it all in a realm other than that of Light. They do it in the realm of darkness. It they whom Jesus speaks of in His conversation with Nicodemus in John 3.
This tells us that Death is quite functional. Death is actually quite dynamic and powerful. It is able to exist and move. And it has many characteristics. They are familiar to all of us: Fear, condemnation, a false knowledge of God. And more. These are all of the realm of death and darkness. They are very real, and they are all part of Death.
That is why our "old man" can be totally dead, yet exert such influence over us. The influence he exerts, through fear, condemnation, sin, and error, is death. Those influences are traits of death. Consequently, rather than indicate that our "old man" is still alive, all of the terrible traits of the "old man" are nothing more than proof that he is dead. The "old man" is simply acting the way a dead man acts.
We have had this backwards. We have thought that when our flesh won't behave, that our "old man" is alive. We think he has somehow been temporarily resurrected or something. So we say things like, "I must put my old man to death," etc. But this is not what is happening. When our flesh won't behave, it isn't the old man alive all over again.
No! He is once for all dead! Just as surely as Christ died. And he cannot be raised up out of the death of Christ! Rather, when the old man won't behave, or influences us with fear and darkness, it is his "deadness" manifesting itself. It is death residing in our old man, and it is simply acting like death acts.
Where does this leave us with regard to victory over him? Believe it or not, it leaves us with complete victory over him. How so? Because despite the fact that the old man of sin does not behave very well, and often makes it difficult for us to obey God, it is nevertheless a fact that he no longer has dominion over us! Through the resurrection of Christ, we have been given victory over him!
Here we see the essence of the change which has taken place within one who is born again. Before Christ, we were the "old man," completely bound to obey darkness and death. After Christ, we are a new creation. The "old man" cannot make us do anything. He no longer has dominion over us. We do not have to yield to him. We are free to walk with Jesus Christ.
But don't misunderstand. The old man is not changed. He is not redeemed. Neither is he gone from our presence. No. Not one place in Scripture does God ever say that the "old man" has been changed into a new creation. We are never told that God saves the old creation in Adam, and imparts to it the ability to obey God. But what does God say? He says that we are set free from the old man. In other words, through Christ, God severs the grip which the old man had upon us.
In Jesus Christ, we are born into a new realm, as a new creation. This is completely separate from the old realm, where the power of death and darkness can move. Therefore, the old man in Adam really has no power over us at all! He has no ability, as he did before Christ, to govern us.
Then why does he govern so many Christians? Because we don't believe the Truth just mentioned. Or, worse, don't want to believe it. We don't really believe the old man is dead in Christ. We don't believe his power is gone. And watch this very, very closely, reread it as many times as it takes for it to sink in: We believe he is alive, and that it is up to us to get victory over him. That is a lie directly from Satan. We believe this because the old man is still hanging around our necks. And we think that the influence which the realm of darkness exerts through him is evidence he is alive. It isn't. It is evidence of death. Just as it is evidenced in the lives of the unsaved around us!
Deception is the only power the enemy has over the Christian. Since the enemy has already been totally defeated by Christ, his only device is to deceive us into thinking he hasn't been defeated. But if we believe this lie, how can we possibly ever walk in Christ's victory? By definition, we will have denied it. We will spend our energy and faith trying to win a victory over an enemy who is already defeated!
There are many Truths in the Bible which are vital. But the foundation of Christianity is the most important. It states, clearly and unequivocally, that Jesus Christ has won all victory. He hasn't left any victories for us to win. That is the basis of all faith. It is the basis of walking in victory. Without this, we have no salvation by grace.
We cannot overcome.
We cannot grow.
We really have no access to God.
We must believe this Truth and grow to walk in it. Otherwise, we walk in death that we have been delivered out of by the blood of Christ.
Most of us think of death in terms of what happens to a physical body when it dies. It lays there. It cannot move. It cannot do anything. It is completely void of all power and ability. Death is, as far as this life goes, non-existence. The person is gone.
Now, all of that is true. But those traits of death are only applicable to the physical death of a physical body. Death is much more immeasurable than that.
Death is a condition. It is a state of being. It is a realm. Consequently, never think of death as non-existence. It is existence, but it is existence apart from God. It is conscious existence, able to function and move. Those who are dead can, and do, will and act, The spiritually dead -- the lost among us -- function. They operate. They perform. But they do it all in a realm other than that of Light. They do it in the realm of darkness. It they whom Jesus speaks of in His conversation with Nicodemus in John 3.
This tells us that Death is quite functional. Death is actually quite dynamic and powerful. It is able to exist and move. And it has many characteristics. They are familiar to all of us: Fear, condemnation, a false knowledge of God. And more. These are all of the realm of death and darkness. They are very real, and they are all part of Death.
That is why our "old man" can be totally dead, yet exert such influence over us. The influence he exerts, through fear, condemnation, sin, and error, is death. Those influences are traits of death. Consequently, rather than indicate that our "old man" is still alive, all of the terrible traits of the "old man" are nothing more than proof that he is dead. The "old man" is simply acting the way a dead man acts.
We have had this backwards. We have thought that when our flesh won't behave, that our "old man" is alive. We think he has somehow been temporarily resurrected or something. So we say things like, "I must put my old man to death," etc. But this is not what is happening. When our flesh won't behave, it isn't the old man alive all over again.
No! He is once for all dead! Just as surely as Christ died. And he cannot be raised up out of the death of Christ! Rather, when the old man won't behave, or influences us with fear and darkness, it is his "deadness" manifesting itself. It is death residing in our old man, and it is simply acting like death acts.
Where does this leave us with regard to victory over him? Believe it or not, it leaves us with complete victory over him. How so? Because despite the fact that the old man of sin does not behave very well, and often makes it difficult for us to obey God, it is nevertheless a fact that he no longer has dominion over us! Through the resurrection of Christ, we have been given victory over him!
Romans 6, NASB
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Here we see the essence of the change which has taken place within one who is born again. Before Christ, we were the "old man," completely bound to obey darkness and death. After Christ, we are a new creation. The "old man" cannot make us do anything. He no longer has dominion over us. We do not have to yield to him. We are free to walk with Jesus Christ.
But don't misunderstand. The old man is not changed. He is not redeemed. Neither is he gone from our presence. No. Not one place in Scripture does God ever say that the "old man" has been changed into a new creation. We are never told that God saves the old creation in Adam, and imparts to it the ability to obey God. But what does God say? He says that we are set free from the old man. In other words, through Christ, God severs the grip which the old man had upon us.
In Jesus Christ, we are born into a new realm, as a new creation. This is completely separate from the old realm, where the power of death and darkness can move. Therefore, the old man in Adam really has no power over us at all! He has no ability, as he did before Christ, to govern us.
Then why does he govern so many Christians? Because we don't believe the Truth just mentioned. Or, worse, don't want to believe it. We don't really believe the old man is dead in Christ. We don't believe his power is gone. And watch this very, very closely, reread it as many times as it takes for it to sink in: We believe he is alive, and that it is up to us to get victory over him. That is a lie directly from Satan. We believe this because the old man is still hanging around our necks. And we think that the influence which the realm of darkness exerts through him is evidence he is alive. It isn't. It is evidence of death. Just as it is evidenced in the lives of the unsaved around us!
Deception is the only power the enemy has over the Christian. Since the enemy has already been totally defeated by Christ, his only device is to deceive us into thinking he hasn't been defeated. But if we believe this lie, how can we possibly ever walk in Christ's victory? By definition, we will have denied it. We will spend our energy and faith trying to win a victory over an enemy who is already defeated!
There are many Truths in the Bible which are vital. But the foundation of Christianity is the most important. It states, clearly and unequivocally, that Jesus Christ has won all victory. He hasn't left any victories for us to win. That is the basis of all faith. It is the basis of walking in victory. Without this, we have no salvation by grace.
We cannot overcome.
We cannot grow.
We really have no access to God.
We must believe this Truth and grow to walk in it. Otherwise, we walk in death that we have been delivered out of by the blood of Christ.
That is a different way of looking at it, not sure I fully agree with it though. But your conclusions seem to be on the right path.
however I might not be understanding you properly.
I agree the Old man has no power over us unless we are out of faith by deception. I think the essence of what you have said and what I said is the same in the end.
Correct me If I have misunderstood, but ultimately the old nature has no power over the christian who has faith in Christ. It can't make us do anything. Christ has won the victory over the Devil and the flesh and by Faith we are more than conquerors in Christ.
however I might not be understanding you properly.
I agree the Old man has no power over us unless we are out of faith by deception. I think the essence of what you have said and what I said is the same in the end.
Correct me If I have misunderstood, but ultimately the old nature has no power over the christian who has faith in Christ. It can't make us do anything. Christ has won the victory over the Devil and the flesh and by Faith we are more than conquerors in Christ.
H
I understand that you claim the sinful nature (the flesh) is not dead until we perfectly obey the law (as the law requires, James 2:10). Such doctrine is legalistic error.
Instead we see that Christians have put the flesh to death when we believe on Jesus, thereby our faith is counted for righteousness (Rom 4:5). Christians therefore do not seek to be perfected by the flesh, as legalists try to do (Gal 3).
That thief on the cross never kept the law. Are you saying that somehow he also thought Christ is not sufficient?
Or are you saying that those with death bed salvation are more blessed than the rest of us in that more is expected of us in that we have to show evidence of perfect obedience to the law as proof that we believe that "Christ is sufficient" and that the cross was enough?
Your assumption about Christians here is incorrect.
Christians see our body as already being dead (by faith, crucified with Christ, Rom 6:6) because of sin, Rom 8:10.
Therefore we do not judge ourselves or others by appearances/works of the law.
Christians simply show the same love/grace to others, forgiving 7x70. And we preach Christ crucified.
And in believing on Jesus we thus walk in the spirit. That is our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3. And we're covered by his righteousness/holiness/sinlessness.
Sadly, it's the legalists/law preachers who are still walking in the flesh. They don't see any Christians as clean unless they obey the law perfectly. In other words, they call unclean what God has cleansed. They see all as unclean (in spite of Christ's sacrifice) unless they are perfected by the flesh.
Here you claim that anyone who sins/transgresses the law (1John 3:4) is in unbelief.
From this we conclude that you see any Christian who does not follow SDA type doctrine of keeping the Sabbath in the way that you guys thinks is ok, then such are in unbelief. Sadly for you, this is legalistic error.
Yes, sin is transgression of the law, 1John 3:4.
And whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
But Christians are NOT under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9).
Hence we cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law when we are not under it's jurisdiction.
Who shall lay ANY THING (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect? Rom 8:33
Christians cannot be charged with the sin of unrighteousness (1john 5:17) either, as our faith is counted for righteousness (Rom 4:5).
Gotime, you implied in your post that you are perfect in obedience to the law because Christ in you does it for you.
Yet all the Adventists I've known are flawed and thus have never made such a claim as you have. Are you claiming that Adventists are unrighteous and in unbelief because they have not allowed Christ to make them perfect like you claim to be?
Instead we see that Christians have put the flesh to death when we believe on Jesus, thereby our faith is counted for righteousness (Rom 4:5). Christians therefore do not seek to be perfected by the flesh, as legalists try to do (Gal 3).
That thief on the cross never kept the law. Are you saying that somehow he also thought Christ is not sufficient?
Or are you saying that those with death bed salvation are more blessed than the rest of us in that more is expected of us in that we have to show evidence of perfect obedience to the law as proof that we believe that "Christ is sufficient" and that the cross was enough?
Your assumption about Christians here is incorrect.
Christians see our body as already being dead (by faith, crucified with Christ, Rom 6:6) because of sin, Rom 8:10.
Therefore we do not judge ourselves or others by appearances/works of the law.
Christians simply show the same love/grace to others, forgiving 7x70. And we preach Christ crucified.
And in believing on Jesus we thus walk in the spirit. That is our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3. And we're covered by his righteousness/holiness/sinlessness.
Sadly, it's the legalists/law preachers who are still walking in the flesh. They don't see any Christians as clean unless they obey the law perfectly. In other words, they call unclean what God has cleansed. They see all as unclean (in spite of Christ's sacrifice) unless they are perfected by the flesh.
Here you claim that anyone who sins/transgresses the law (1John 3:4) is in unbelief.
From this we conclude that you see any Christian who does not follow SDA type doctrine of keeping the Sabbath in the way that you guys thinks is ok, then such are in unbelief. Sadly for you, this is legalistic error.
Yes, sin is transgression of the law, 1John 3:4.
And whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
But Christians are NOT under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9).
Hence we cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law when we are not under it's jurisdiction.
Who shall lay ANY THING (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect? Rom 8:33
Christians cannot be charged with the sin of unrighteousness (1john 5:17) either, as our faith is counted for righteousness (Rom 4:5).
Gotime, you implied in your post that you are perfect in obedience to the law because Christ in you does it for you.
Yet all the Adventists I've known are flawed and thus have never made such a claim as you have. Are you claiming that Adventists are unrighteous and in unbelief because they have not allowed Christ to make them perfect like you claim to be?
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V
That's it exactly, Gotime. You got it, and it is very much like what you have said earlier in the thread. In fact, my post is more to agree with you than to make a division between our views.
The key is what I said farther down in the post: We fail when we erroneously think the old man is still alive and it is therefore up to us to win victory over him. But as I said still farther down, Christ has left us no victories to fight for! He has already won every victory there is to win in our lives! We are indeed free from sin and death and alive in Christ. It is when we forget that, when we think anything is up to us, that we miserably fail.
We have already been delivered. We're like a package on a doorstep, or a letter in a mailbox. We're where we need to be. We have nowhere else to go. We need only allow Christ to open us up, use us as He sees fit, and reap our rewards for a life well lived in Him.
The key is what I said farther down in the post: We fail when we erroneously think the old man is still alive and it is therefore up to us to win victory over him. But as I said still farther down, Christ has left us no victories to fight for! He has already won every victory there is to win in our lives! We are indeed free from sin and death and alive in Christ. It is when we forget that, when we think anything is up to us, that we miserably fail.
We have already been delivered. We're like a package on a doorstep, or a letter in a mailbox. We're where we need to be. We have nowhere else to go. We need only allow Christ to open us up, use us as He sees fit, and reap our rewards for a life well lived in Him.
Haz read carefully.
When we place our faith in Jesus death and resurrection, two things happen.
Our old man of sin dies and we are filled with the Holy Spirit. Christ lives through us and the works are His.
Simple
I die, dead people do not sin, dead people do not do good either.
Christ lives in me, Christ does not sin and Christ does all good works.
This means no legalism and no works of the flesh. the only perfect solution is in Christ and Him only.
When we place our faith in Jesus death and resurrection, two things happen.
Our old man of sin dies and we are filled with the Holy Spirit. Christ lives through us and the works are His.
Simple
I die, dead people do not sin, dead people do not do good either.
Christ lives in me, Christ does not sin and Christ does all good works.
This means no legalism and no works of the flesh. the only perfect solution is in Christ and Him only.
I go to an SDA church each Saturday as my wife is SDA, then she comes with me on a Sunday. Two weeks ago a man stood up and prayed in her church he said:
''Thank you Lord for loving us who are unclean sinners''
I think sometimes you can get a false impression from what is often written on the internet. It was nice to hear honesty, rather than something reeled off from the head
''Thank you Lord for loving us who are unclean sinners''
I think sometimes you can get a false impression from what is often written on the internet. It was nice to hear honesty, rather than something reeled off from the head
H
God's promise is that if we believe on Jesus then we have eternal life (John 3:16).
God's promise is that our faith (believing on Jesus) is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
So why are you then measuring faith by how well one obeys the law?
The law is not of faith, Gal 3:12.
We can't even mix works of the law, with grace, Rom 11:6. To do so is to be lukewarm/
God's promise is that our faith (believing on Jesus) is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
So why are you then measuring faith by how well one obeys the law?
The law is not of faith, Gal 3:12.
We can't even mix works of the law, with grace, Rom 11:6. To do so is to be lukewarm/
Because if someone is in faith they are born again, a new creature. The old one disobeyed the new obeys, The old kept not Gods commandments the new does. how?
It is Christ in you the hope of Glory, it is His righteousness not ours. His works not ours. Jesus does not break His own holy law.
You are too focused on us and our ability, we have no ability so why focus there?
But Christ He can do the impossible.
When we first talked years ago I was a legalist cause I did not properly understand faith. Thus I could not measure up to what I spoke of.
Now it is different. Christ took away my works and replaced them With His, He gave me rest from the works of the flesh and I am growing in Him as is the right and privilege of all who by faith trust in Him.
It is Christ in you the hope of Glory, it is His righteousness not ours. His works not ours. Jesus does not break His own holy law.
You are too focused on us and our ability, we have no ability so why focus there?
But Christ He can do the impossible.
When we first talked years ago I was a legalist cause I did not properly understand faith. Thus I could not measure up to what I spoke of.
Now it is different. Christ took away my works and replaced them With His, He gave me rest from the works of the flesh and I am growing in Him as is the right and privilege of all who by faith trust in Him.
In fact haz I think it was you that made me really think.
We were having a disagreement on this issue on keeping the commandments and then one day when we were writing back and forth it dawned on me that while I was saying to keep the law I myself was not able to do so.
This perplexed me so I spent much time in study on the subject. I could not get past the fact that the true Christian should be keeping the law. So then I thought what is the problem then?
I kept searching and finally God showed me it was a lack of faith in Christ and Him Crucified. That and because of that fact I was very much a legalist.
It took a long time but I finally found the answer to my problem in Christ's death and resurrection. I found Grace that changed my life. where I failed before I was not victorious. And from there it has been an upward march.
But I do not boast in this because I have learned from falling and getting back up that we can not do it, it has to be us getting out of the way trusting in His Grace and He does the works.
We were having a disagreement on this issue on keeping the commandments and then one day when we were writing back and forth it dawned on me that while I was saying to keep the law I myself was not able to do so.
This perplexed me so I spent much time in study on the subject. I could not get past the fact that the true Christian should be keeping the law. So then I thought what is the problem then?
I kept searching and finally God showed me it was a lack of faith in Christ and Him Crucified. That and because of that fact I was very much a legalist.
It took a long time but I finally found the answer to my problem in Christ's death and resurrection. I found Grace that changed my life. where I failed before I was not victorious. And from there it has been an upward march.
But I do not boast in this because I have learned from falling and getting back up that we can not do it, it has to be us getting out of the way trusting in His Grace and He does the works.
H
Note your quotes below.
Here you accuse Christians here on CC of being in unbelief and thinking that the cross is not sufficient to crucify the flesh.
And how do you determine this?
Because we do not determine our righteousness by deeds of the law.
Therefore because we do not observe the Saturday Sabbath as you think it should be observed, you then judge us to be in unbelief, thinking the cross is insufficient to crucify the flesh.
Note Rom 14:22,23
Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Christians do not condemn themselves over not observing the Sabbath, etc. And they have no need to either.
Col 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days
But you insist that we should condemn ourselves and see ourselves as being in unbelief, rejecting the power of the cross.
You are at odds with God.
Here you accuse Christians here on CC of being in unbelief and thinking that the cross is not sufficient to crucify the flesh.
And how do you determine this?
Because we do not determine our righteousness by deeds of the law.
Therefore because we do not observe the Saturday Sabbath as you think it should be observed, you then judge us to be in unbelief, thinking the cross is insufficient to crucify the flesh.
Note Rom 14:22,23
Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Christians do not condemn themselves over not observing the Sabbath, etc. And they have no need to either.
Col 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days
But you insist that we should condemn ourselves and see ourselves as being in unbelief, rejecting the power of the cross.
You are at odds with God.
I realized that the reason I could not keep the law was because I was a slave to sin, and legalism only made me get more tangled in sin.
So I searched, How could a Christian keep the law yet not be able to boast or work for His/her salvation.
Then I saw as I said that in Christ's death my nature dies if I have faith in Christ and that means I am no longer a slave to sin.
and through the Holy Spirit Christ lives in us and He freed me by His Grace.
Slaves can not keep the law cause they are in bondage to sin. but free people don't have this problem, nothing holds them back and Christ compels and empowers us froward.
This results in total peace and rest not just from works of the law but from works of the flesh. that is rest in Christ.
So I searched, How could a Christian keep the law yet not be able to boast or work for His/her salvation.
Then I saw as I said that in Christ's death my nature dies if I have faith in Christ and that means I am no longer a slave to sin.
and through the Holy Spirit Christ lives in us and He freed me by His Grace.
Slaves can not keep the law cause they are in bondage to sin. but free people don't have this problem, nothing holds them back and Christ compels and empowers us froward.
This results in total peace and rest not just from works of the law but from works of the flesh. that is rest in Christ.