Notice Paul’s Attitude! He Did Not Believe Or Claim To Already Have Salvation, But Sought To Progressively GROW Up Into The Likeness Of Christ,

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
1,282
597
113
77
Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#81
Brother, we have already passed from death to life. That life is in Christ and is the life of Christ being lived in us...I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me...Galatians 2:20. It is God at work in us, willing and doing of His good pleasure...Philippians 2:13.
None of this was happening before grace wrought salvation in us by faith. And not only is it happening, we are noticing it happening in us. The Spirit is actively operating in us more and more of His fruit. We are beginning more and more to exercise love and patience. Peace and joy are becoming hallmarks in us. All this is born out of our salvation and connection now with Christ. I do agree it is coming progressively, but we aren't producing it. It is born out of this intimate relationship we now have in Christ. As Adam intimately knew his wife, so are we spiritually knowing Jesus. And this is what John 17:3 is all about.
Incidentally, this is what Paul is referring to in Philippians 3 when he says he counted all things loss for the excellency of the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. He wasn't talking about knowing facts about Jesus. He was referring to interacting with Him in real and manifest ways. In Ephesians 6 when Paul speaks of being strong in the Lord and the power of His might, he is referring to the same reality. Those not experiencing the Lord this way were said to have a form of godliness, but deny its power.
Brother, Did you agree with OP and the entire post?
 
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
#83
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,145
5,722
113
#85
Brother, we have already passed from death to life. That life is in Christ and is the life of Christ being lived in us...I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me...Galatians 2:20. It is God at work in us, willing and doing of His good pleasure...Philippians 2:13.
None of this was happening before grace wrought salvation in us by faith. And not only is it happening, we are noticing it happening in us. The Spirit is actively operating in us more and more of His fruit. We are beginning more and more to exercise love and patience. Peace and joy are becoming hallmarks in us. All this is born out of our salvation and connection now with Christ. I do agree it is coming progressively, but we aren't producing it. It is born out of this intimate relationship we now have in Christ. As Adam intimately knew his wife, so are we spiritually knowing Jesus. And this is what John 17:3 is all about.
Incidentally, this is what Paul is referring to in Philippians 3 when he says he counted all things loss for the excellency of the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. He wasn't talking about knowing facts about Jesus. He was referring to interacting with Him in real and manifest ways. In Ephesians 6 when Paul speaks of being strong in the Lord and the power of His might, he is referring to the same reality. Those not experiencing the Lord this way were said to have a form of godliness, but deny its power.
yeah brother I’ve never said we’re producing anything I’ve said we have to believe the gospel to be saved consider that th is is all true as well as the other verses

“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”

‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

‭‭John‬ ‭6:29‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”

‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”

‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Romans‬ ‭14:9

And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”

‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42‬ ‭

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”

‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”

‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”

‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-11, 13-14, 17-21‬ ‭KJV

if we do t believe and respond to Jesus doing our part he never promised the same things as he did if we believe and follow him is all I’m saying salvation is like any word of God it’s certainly going to be fulfilled but we o ot know a glimpse right now promise of what’s to come later d we live looking at those promises now is the idea
But I’ll leave my words there brother and let you know you’re a blessing to me !!!
 
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
#86
1688411366245.png
You liked my post of Galatians 5:1, Walter.

Why are you entangling yourself with the yoke of bondage?
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
#87
Peace and joy are becoming hallmarks in us. All this is born out of our salvation and connection now with Christ. I do agree it is coming progressively, but we aren't producing it. It is born out of this intimate relationship we now have in Christ.
right ... we do not produce the fruit ...

John 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.



His fruit is produced within the born again believer ... the born again believer merely holds the fruit out to others ... like the fruit on a tree hanging on a branch ...

.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,216
6,610
113
62
#89
Ok, What about the 1st.?
That's what I have been explaining. God, in Christ, has made a way for us to relate to God. Eternal life is found in a real and experiential relationship with God and Christ. I believe most Christians live far below what God has made available.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,216
6,610
113
62
#90
yeah brother I’ve never said we’re producing anything I’ve said we have to believe the gospel to be saved consider that th is is all true as well as the other verses

“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”

‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

‭‭John‬ ‭6:29‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”

‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”

‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Romans‬ ‭14:9

And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”

‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42‬ ‭

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”

‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”

‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”

‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-11, 13-14, 17-21‬ ‭KJV

if we do t believe and respond to Jesus doing our part he never promised the same things as he did if we believe and follow him is all I’m saying salvation is like any word of God it’s certainly going to be fulfilled but we o ot know a glimpse right now promise of what’s to come later d we live looking at those promises now is the idea
But I’ll leave my words there brother and let you know you’re a blessing to me !!!
If one believes the gospel are they saved? Of course. We seem to disagree on what that entails and that's fine. When I count my blessings, I count you as well. I know what I possess in Christ. I would that all might live in the fulness of what it means to know God and Jesus.
 
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
#91
As far as my understanding I'm not unless you prove me differently.
And also to Remember The Sabbath to keep it holy, as He did, and soo many other things to do and not to do on the Sabbath.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Gal 4:
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,145
5,722
113
#92
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

A bit clearer and leaves no room for erroneous interpretation when you read more of th chapter though instead of just one sentance of what he’s saying there what’s he really saying there ?

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. …..

For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:1, 13-16, 19-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s not saying freedom to go ahead an sin without consequence or even free to live like we choose independent of Gods judgements in the gospel he’s talking about Moses law and the bondage it brings and that we’re free from that because Paul’s speaking after this was established by the lord

Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If We walk In the truth and we are free from all things but we have to walk in the truth to know freedom from the law following law of Carnal commandment is bondage following the spirit of Christ is freedom

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭
 

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
1,282
597
113
77
Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#93
That's what I have been explaining. God, in Christ, has made a way for us to relate to God. Eternal life is found in a real and experiential relationship with God and Christ. I believe most Christians live far below what God has made available.
Brother, The reason that I asked, is because of your understanding of what Paul was saying because of his attitude then, But I believe that the same issues are now.
 
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
#94
A bit clearer and leaves no room for erroneous interpretation when you read more of th chapter though instead of just one sentance of what he’s saying there what’s he really saying there ?
Don't forget to read Galatians 4.

Paul was admonishing the Galatians not to allow the Judaizers to persuade them to fall back under the law of Moses.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,312
3,618
113
#96
As far as my understanding I'm not unless you prove me differently.
You're not saying anything that hasn't already been said by countless Judaizers. You've got nothing new; it's all the standard propaganda. No one can prove anything to you because your mind was closed long ago. Short of a direct revelation from the Lord Himself it looks like this will be your course till the end.
 

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
1,282
597
113
77
Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#97
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Gal 4:
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
My point is to follow His steps.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,145
5,722
113
#98
If one believes the gospel are they saved? Of course. We seem to disagree on what that entails and that's fine. When I count my blessings, I count you as well. I know what I possess in Christ. I would that all might live in the fulness of what it means to know God and Jesus.
If one believes the gospel are they saved?

they shall be saved yes if they don’t stop believing and following Christ

maybe it would help if I just said this is also part of the gospel that we need to believe ? Make more sense

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and the reason we need to believe that is this

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so we have grace that we might find repentance and be saved from perishing

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

she jas t removed our place and role he has enabled us to do our part and be saved through bekieving the gospel “ I can do all things through Christ that gives me strength “ not “ there’s nothing for me to do “

The gospel is what Jesus preached and also what Jesus did in dying for our sins he was sent to earth to preach the gospel and after he rose he sent it to all people that’s what I mean by the gospel what we find in Matthew mark Luke and John including that Jesus is the judge and his words spoken in the gospel are the judgement
 

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
1,282
597
113
77
Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#99
You're not saying anything that hasn't already been said by countless Judaizers. You've got nothing new; it's all the standard propaganda. No one can prove anything to you because your mind was closed long ago. Short of a direct revelation from the Lord Himself it looks like this will be your course till the end.
This is your way of thinking.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,312
3,618
113
Yeah, follow His steps. Tanslation: Keep the law.