Obedience Required?

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oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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he also downloaded a Bible app a couple years ago and showed me how to use it which is why I have such quick access to scriptire it’s called you Bible it’s like three dollars and easy to use
Yes, I use one too. We are so blessed to have such awesome tools to use in the service of the King!

I was thinking that you must type very fast. I'm just a hunt-'n-pecker. :geek:
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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which by the way just to note is something you regularly and consistently exhibit here in this forum even in disagreements and that is very admirable
Wow. That just blew me away. I am constantly searching my heart to ensure that what I am writing is of a good heart. I fail often, however. Like you, I am just trying to get better (as difficult as that is while we live in Satan's world).

Thank you, PH.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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Paul actually explains what occurs in obedience to water baptism:
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
None of that has anything to do with water baptism. That is about Spirit Baptism at the time we yield our lives to Jesus. Nothing wrong with water baptism, but it comes along later.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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I feel Like that happens a lot here. We disagree on important terms like faith what does it really mean tangibly To us ?

grace ? What does grace mean biblically not from a dictionary but biblically ?

I think you hit on it there often we’re beginning with different understandings of really important terms we are discussing so it’s hard to come to an agreement on what we’re saying even though , it’s not that different
I hear what you're saying. The one "thing" that causes me more Spiritual grief is the fact that very few people are willing to include "Circumcision" in their Biblical discussions (which explains why few are even willing to "spread the Gospel." Therefore, because virtually no "pastor" is willing to discuss this core doctrine, including all major "preachers" in TV land (this includes the likes of John MacArthur, Charles Stanley . . . etc), it is no wonder that the "sheep" are not familiar with the term.

Why is understanding "Spiritual Circumcision" so critical? Because when a person embraces that doctrine, they are faced with the fact that Spiritual Circumcision leads to a promised and guaranteed change of thinking and behavior. When sharing the True Gospel, people must be informed that if the Lord releases them from the Adamic Curse, their hearts will become repulsed by the sins they once committed. Does that make sense? People need to realize that True acceptance of the Gospel of Jesus Christ means that they will be giving up their sexual relationships. They will learn how to view women in a respectful, Righteous, Pure, and Holy way . . . instead of an instrument by which to experience physical pleasures. We will stop our habitual stealing. We will discontinue our desires to be accepted by the World, and be more concerned about being accepted by God, the Father. We will lose our desire to be intoxicated, which leads to worldly actions and speech. We will lose our desire to focus on ourselves and learn how to focus our attention on others.

How many are willing to trade in all of these pleasures to simply become a Son (or as Paul often says a "slave") of God? How many are willing to sacrifice the pleasures of this world that comes from the Holy Hands of Jesus? Who is willing to give up all of their worldly pleasures just to become a selfless servant of God?

This is why Spiritual Circumcision is and must be at the very Heart of the Gospel that we offer to those who are willing to listen. But as said, what teacher is pushing this ultra-clear doctrine? And if the "church" is not teaching the core of the Gospel, well then, what Gospel are they teaching? Right . . . a Gospel with Spiritual Circumcision which claims that no one must change and can still enter the Gates of Heaven.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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None of that has anything to do with water baptism. That is about Spirit Baptism at the time we yield our lives to Jesus. Nothing wrong with water baptism, but it comes along later.
Consider what baptism is done in Jesus' name for remission of sin; see Acts 2:38, 10:47-48, and 22:16. The baptism referenced is water baptism. Paul explains in Romans 6:6 that one's sin is destroyed in the baptism he referenced in the previous verses. (Romans 6:3-5) This confirms Paul's comments pertain to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Man must obey the gospel in order to become born again. (Acts 2:36-42) After the s

1 Cor 2:14 describes man before he is born again. How can he obey the gospel, if he cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness?

During the process of being born again God takes the stony heart out of the unregenerate person and replaces it with a new soft fleshy heart that can be pricked to feel guilt.(Ezk 36:26). Peter's sermon was directed to "all the house of Israel" which consists of all of God's elect.

Gen 32:28 - And he said thy name shall be no more called Jacob, but Israel. Rom 9:11 - For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, It was said unto her, the elder shall serve the younger. Asd it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Jacob as Israel is representative of God's elect.

Now with this knowledge, let's look at Acts 2:36-42.

In verse 36 Peter's sermon is directed to "all of the house of Israel as Jacob" who are the elect of God, informing them that they are guilty of crucifiction of Christ. Verse 37, When they heard this they were "pricked" in their heart (new fleshy heart of the born again), and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles "men and brethren" what shall we do?

To compare the different response of the unregenerate persons when they heard Steven preach the same sermon that Peter taught, they were "cut" to the heart (of stone), and gnashed on him with their teeth.

Verse 38, Then Peter said unto them, repent and be baptised (the answer of a guilty conscience toward God-1 Pet 3:212), every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ "for"(unto) the remission of sins.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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That is a false Gospel. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved is the true Gospel. And it is this obedience of faith that grants the gift of the Holy Spirit.

BTW is you fail to obey a single commandment, you have failed altogether!

This is also a false gospel. Acts 16:31 does not have reference to eternal deliverance (salvation), but to a deliverance (salvation) that the born again, babe in Christ, receives when they come unto a knowledge of the truth (believe).
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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This is also a false gospel. Acts 16:31 does not have reference to eternal deliverance (salvation), but to a deliverance (salvation) that the born again, babe in Christ, receives when they come unto a knowledge of the truth (believe).
This is HILARIOUS! For someone who blatantly promotes Five Point Calvinism, believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is definitely not enough. One must also believe all the Calvinistic nonsense to be regarded as one of the "elect".
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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The Gospel is all about Christ. That Christ is God who became sinless Man to die for our sins and rise again for our justification. And those who believe this wholeheartedly, repent, and receive Him as Lord and Savior receive THE GIFT of the Holy Spirit, THE GIFT of eternal life, THE GIFT of salvation. Those who believe are justified by grace through FAITH (Eph 2:8,9), not obedience to the commandments, since no one can obey all God's commandments perfectly in order to be justified (Rom 3:19-26). Read, study, and digest Romans chapters 3 and 4.

My understanding of Eph 2:8, is that the faith that we are saved through, is not mankind's faith, but is Jesus faithfulness in going to the cross to justify us (Gal 2:16). Our spiritual faith does not exist until we have been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in which spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22).

The unregenerate person cannot have spiritual faith, nor believe in spiritual things (1 Cor 2:14) until he has been reborn spiritually.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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This is HILARIOUS! For someone who blatantly promotes Five Point Calvinism, believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is definitely not enough. One must also believe all the Calvinistic nonsense to be regarded as one of the "elect".
Believing in spiritual things comes after being reborn spiritually. The scriptures must harmonize before they will reveal the truth. Your's do not.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The kingdom of heaven does not have reference to eternal heaven, but is one, of many, names of the church in which Christ is the bridegroom and king. The born again child of God can be accepted in to the church by doing good works. Following God's commandments and doing good works is not the cause of getting eternal salvation. That would be eternal salvation by works.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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Paul explains in Romans 6:6 that one's sin is destroyed in the baptism he referenced in the previous verses. (Romans 6:3-5) This confirms Paul's comments pertain to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Did you know that the KJV states that the Baptism was a Baptism [into] Jesus AND His death.

Romans 6:3 KJV - "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
 

DJT_47

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Oct 20, 2022
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Receiving the Holy Ghost becomes a reality for those who are willing to obey:

"Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:31-32
You receive the gift of the Holy Ghost upon baptism according to Acts 2:38.
 

DJT_47

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Oct 20, 2022
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Obedience is always required. You must also obey the gospel, which many fail to clearly understand nor the warning in 2 Thes 1:8-9 for not being obedient to it.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Ephesians 1:

let's examine Verse 13 for example: 13 After you heard the message of truth—the Good News of your salvation—[[((and when you put your trust))]] in Him, you were sealed with the promised Ruach ha-Kodesh.

what's they key phrase and words here?

and when you put your trust....... >in Him<

^
that [[is not]] a suggestion but a statement of OBEDIENCE!

there's a COMMAND here to put our own TRUST into God.

if you don't, you won't be SEALED with the Holy Spirit!