Observations on the Book of Life

Blain · Oct 30, 2020

Actually that was my bad my brain kind of got crossed wired with that part that is kind of a problem with my brain it sometimes blends two different parts of scripture together so as I always say take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Basically though the ascending of Jesus is symbolic to the rapture the church starting with the apostles who were Jews who then formed the body of Christ with both Jews and Gentiles then the persicution and killing of the saints is like a foreshadow of the rapture and tribulation that is what I was trying to explain

Blain · Oct 30, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

Yes I have seen these verses used by post trib beleievers but the issue is that these are built on interpretation of timing. The elect resurrection and gathering of them as well as the trumpet basically everything can be the elect who are killed saved and brought up who all were in the tribulation
Remember the Tribulation is the judgement on Israel first but also the whole world and remember also that not all will take the mark and there will be those who come to Christ in the tribulation and thus Christened the elect the righteous the redeemed.

Bible prophecy always revolves around one thing firsthand The Jews then the rest of the world, bible prophecy also is deeper than merely reading and interpreting scripture there is patterns hidden codes mysterious messages it is the meat of all meats and requires one to look much deeper than the first layer.

This is why I mentioned the foreshadowing it is something that is repeated in scripture when it comes to bible prophecy every time, hence my mentioning of the ascending of Jesus and the pattern that followed him. But I understand that this particular topic is not one that we can convince each other of we have to learn and understand the truth of the matter for ourselves with Father showing and guiding us to all truths.

I like to look at things with an open mind and heart and so for a good while I studied all the perceptions of the time of the rapture and if you look at them from each perspective you can easily find evidence for each one pre trib pre wrath mid trib and post trib depending on the lenses you look at the scriptures with yet none of them have absolute concrete evidence it is only our perception that make it appear so and sadly everyone holds so tightly to their own beleifs and views that even if the truth were presented to them they would remain blind to it and attempt to prove their views and beliefs right.

But if you truly wish to prove your view as right and to truly find evidence of the truth then you must try to prove your belief wrong, however this also must be done in earnest, it is far to easy to attempt such a thing yet still hold on to your own view even if only a little and this will cloud your understanding and your attempt to prove it wrong will be in vain

Very few people ever truly attempt this though they want to prove their belief is correct and do not have the heart of a student rather they have the heart of a teacher but to truly have the heart of a teacher they must first and foremost have the heart o

Truth7t7 said:

Yes I have seen these verses used by post trib beleievers but the issue is that these are built on interpretation of timing. The elect resurrection and gathering of them as well as the trumpet basically everything can be the elect who are killed saved and brought up who all were in the tribulation
Remember the Tribulation is the judgement on Israel first but also the whole world and remember also that not all will take the mark and there will be those who come to Christ in the tribulation and thus Christened the elect the righteous the redeemed.

Bible prophecy always revolves around one thing firsthand The Jews then the rest of the world, bible prophecy also is deeper than merely reading and interpreting scripture there is patterns hidden codes mysterious messages it is the meat of all meats and requires one to look much deeper than the first layer.

This is why I mentioned the foreshadowing it is something that is repeated in scripture when it comes to bible prophecy every time, hence my mentioning of the ascending of Jesus and the pattern that followed him. But I understand that this particular topic is not one that we can convince each other of we have to learn and understand the truth of the matter for ourselves with Father showing and guiding us to all truths.

I like to look at things with an open mind and heart and so for a good while I studied all the perceptions of the time of the rapture and if you look at them from each perspective you can easily find evidence for each one pre trib pre wrath mid trib and post trib depending on the lenses you look at the scriptures with yet none of them have absolute concrete evidence it is only our perception that make it appear so and sadly everyone holds so tightly to their own beleifs and views that even if the truth were presented to them they would remain blind to it and attempt to prove their views and beliefs right.

But if you truly wish to prove your view as right and to truly find evidence of the truth then you must try to prove your belief wrong, however this also must be done in earnest, it is far to easy to attempt such a thing yet still hold on to your own view even if only a little and this will cloud your understanding and your attempt to prove it wrong will be in vain

Very few people ever truly attempt this though they want to prove their belief is correct and do not have the heart of a student rather they have the heart of a teacher but to truly have the heart of a teacher they must first and foremost have the heart of a student able to absorb as if they know nothing otherwise they will be teachers who cannot absorb and learn only speak and attempt to teach

Truth7t7 · Oct 30, 2020

Blain said:

Yes I have seen these verses used by post trib beleievers but the issue is that these are built on interpretation of timing. The elect resurrection and gathering of them as well as the trumpet basically everything can be the elect who are killed saved and brought up who all were in the tribulation
Remember the Tribulation is the judgement on Israel first but also the whole world and remember also that not all will take the mark and there will be those who come to Christ in the tribulation and thus Christened the elect the righteous the redeemed.

Bible prophecy always revolves around one thing firsthand The Jews then the rest of the world, bible prophecy also is deeper than merely reading and interpreting scripture there is patterns hidden codes mysterious messages it is the meat of all meats and requires one to look much deeper than the first layer.

This is why I mentioned the foreshadowing it is something that is repeated in scripture when it comes to bible prophecy every time, hence my mentioning of the ascending of Jesus and the pattern that followed him. But I understand that this particular topic is not one that we can convince each other of we have to learn and understand the truth of the matter for ourselves with Father showing and guiding us to all truths.

I like to look at things with an open mind and heart and so for a good while I studied all the perceptions of the time of the rapture and if you look at them from each perspective you can easily find evidence for each one pre trib pre wrath mid trib and post trib depending on the lenses you look at the scriptures with yet none of them have absolute concrete evidence it is only our perception that make it appear so and sadly everyone holds so tightly to their own beleifs and views that even if the truth were presented to them they would remain blind to it and attempt to prove their views and beliefs right.

But if you truly wish to prove your view as right and to truly find evidence of the truth then you must try to prove your belief wrong, however this also must be done in earnest, it is far to easy to attempt such a thing yet still hold on to your own view even if only a little and this will cloud your understanding and your attempt to prove it wrong will be in vain

Very few people ever truly attempt this though they want to prove their belief is correct and do not have the heart of a student rather they have the heart of a teacher but to truly have the heart of a teacher they must first and foremost have the heart o

Yes I have seen these verses used by post trib beleievers but the issue is that these are built on interpretation of timing. The elect resurrection and gathering of them as well as the trumpet basically everything can be the elect who are killed saved and brought up who all were in the tribulation
Remember the Tribulation is the judgement on Israel first but also the whole world and remember also that not all will take the mark and there will be those who come to Christ in the tribulation and thus Christened the elect the righteous the redeemed.

Bible prophecy always revolves around one thing firsthand The Jews then the rest of the world, bible prophecy also is deeper than merely reading and interpreting scripture there is patterns hidden codes mysterious messages it is the meat of all meats and requires one to look much deeper than the first layer.

This is why I mentioned the foreshadowing it is something that is repeated in scripture when it comes to bible prophecy every time, hence my mentioning of the ascending of Jesus and the pattern that followed him. But I understand that this particular topic is not one that we can convince each other of we have to learn and understand the truth of the matter for ourselves with Father showing and guiding us to all truths.

I like to look at things with an open mind and heart and so for a good while I studied all the perceptions of the time of the rapture and if you look at them from each perspective you can easily find evidence for each one pre trib pre wrath mid trib and post trib depending on the lenses you look at the scriptures with yet none of them have absolute concrete evidence it is only our perception that make it appear so and sadly everyone holds so tightly to their own beleifs and views that even if the truth were presented to them they would remain blind to it and attempt to prove their views and beliefs right.

But if you truly wish to prove your view as right and to truly find evidence of the truth then you must try to prove your belief wrong, however this also must be done in earnest, it is far to easy to attempt such a thing yet still hold on to your own view even if only a little and this will cloud your understanding and your attempt to prove it wrong will be in vain

Very few people ever truly attempt this though they want to prove their belief is correct and do not have the heart of a student rather they have the heart of a teacher but to truly have the heart of a teacher they must first and foremost have the heart of a student able to absorb as if they know nothing otherwise they will be teachers who cannot absorb and learn only speak and attempt to teach

You present a double post and it never addressed my claims, same Lord, Same Trump, Same Gathering/Resurrection

The Post Trib Rapture, (Exact Same Event)

(Immediately After The Tribulation)

1.) Same Lord In The Clouds Of Heaven

2.) Same Trump

3.) Same Gathering/Resurrection

Dispensationalism Falsely Teaches Matthew 24:29-31 Applies Only To Jews, (A Lie)

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Blain · Oct 30, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

Yes again this is an interpretation issue because if you notice according to your understanding this is at the at the end of the tribulation but as I said before the tribulation is for judgement on the jews and the world who in their wickedness brought his wrath. I am using mathew 24 for my standing rather I ask you what do you make of this?

Revelation 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
This was near the beginning of revelation before all has been spoken that will come upon the world, if in fact you are right then who was he speaking to and why did he say he would keep them from all this?

Truth7t7 · Oct 30, 2020

Blain said:

Your argument is silent, you don't deny the fact it's the same Lord in the clouds,Same Trump, Same Gathering

Because It Is Exactly The Same

You quote Revelation 3:10, the standard false argument in dispensationalism, suggesting the church is raptured to heaven, to escape the hour of temptation?

1.) How will the synagogue of satan worship at the churches feet, if they are raptured to heaven?

2.) Why is the church exhorted on the second coming (Behold I Come Quickly) if they are raptured to heaven?

3.) How does the church (Overcome) ift they are raptured away to heaven?

Revelation 3:9-12KJV
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

As seen below, the church will escape the (Hour Of Temptation) seen in Rev 3:10 during the tribulation, that will come upon the earth, the instruction is to enter the dwelling/home and close the door, just like the passover in Egypt

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Corban · Oct 31, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

I say again. The word "hell" does not appear in the Bible's original texts. It is a Roman Catholic concept. Translators, especially of the King James of 1611, used it as a generic name for THREE different Greek words. They are;

Gehenna - the valley on the South side of Jerusalem that has the city's trash dump. The unusable refuse is burned, so the fires burn day and night. It is also the valley where the Canaanites, and later Israel, caused their children to be burned alive to appease the fire-god Molech. It is used by our Lord Jesus to denote the Lake of Fire
Hades - the subterranean "bottonless pit" in the heart of the earth where the souls of dead men go at death. Our Lord Jesus could break free of hades after three days. David is still there on Pentecost (Act.2:29, 31, 34).
Tartaroo - mentioned only once in the Bible to show a subterranean pit for the angels who mated with women (2nd Pet.2:4; Jude 6)

Now, which one do you want to express by belief in?

But I have a question for you. What is your definition of "hell" - seeing that it does not appear in the originals? Or, have you decided to revise your concepts?

Corban · Oct 31, 2020

Blain said:

Your answer shows a great and compassionate spirit. I have read and noted your points. And unless you want me to comment, I will leave the discussion with one thought. Every man who is cast into the Lake of Fire goes there because God decides so. The Bible is given by God to inform us about Him. He is what He is, and does what He does because His first and foremost trait is justice. Every man who lands in the Lake of Fire does so because he earned it. And the same God of justice will not cast a baby who died at 1 year into the Lake of Fire because he/she is "unsaved". This is not taught in the Bible - anywhere.

That was my motive to address the Book of Life. It presents a God of mercy and goodness, but at the same time One Who is 100% righteous.

Blain · Oct 31, 2020

Corban said:

No he wouldn't throw infants into hell that is a catholic teaching that is downright insane, however as far as unbelievers entering into the book I think is just depends on the age of accountability. Obviously he wouldn't throw children into hell but at some point we grow up enough to know right from wrong and are held accountable for our actions this is where Jesus being the way the truth and the light and salvation comes into play

Corban · Oct 31, 2020

Blain said:

Exactly. The "dead" are judged by their Works and the Book of Life, which is written in by God, decides who will ENTER the Kingdom, or LIFE as Matthew 19 shows. "ENTERING LIFE" is used interchangeably by our Lord Jesus with The Millennial Kingdom.

Truth7t7 · Oct 31, 2020

Corban said:

Do you believe in a future place of (torment), where the wicked go upon death?

Luke 16:22-24NIV
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

Corban · Oct 31, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

No.

The place of Torment is the Lake of Fire (Gehenna) into which people go after judgment - NOT Hades. All people ever judged are judged ALIVE. Our Lord Jesus is ALIVE when the Father seats Him at His right hand. Christians are ALIVE when they are Raptured to the Bema. Israelites are ALIVE (Ezekiel 37) when they are judged after the Great Tribulation (Dan.12:1-2). "ALL Nations" who are judged at the "Throne of His glory" in Matthew 25:31-46 are ALIVE. The "dead" are "given up by Hades" and "stand" before the White Throne in Revelation 20. They are "ALIVE".

The case of the rich man shows torment for those ONLY on one side of the chasm in HADES. The other side is called Abraham's Bosom until Jesus called it Paradise. In Abraham's Bosom there was "comfort" - indicating that there was a problem too✳︎. And the word Paradise is self-explanatory. The "torment" here, according to the context, is because the rich man was a "son" of "father Abraham" - a Jew. He broke the Law. He did not listen to Moses (Deut.15:7-8)!

My friend, despite all your accusations upon your fellow Christians here on this Forum, it looks like YOUR DOCTRINE is the most unscriptural and misleading.

✳︎ In death is dis-comfort according to 2nd Corinthians 5:1-4. Lazarus, though relieved of his earthly sufferings, still groaned to be clothed on with his resurrection body

Truth7t7 · Oct 31, 2020

Corban said:

No.

The place of Torment is the Lake of Fire (Gehenna) into which people go after judgment - NOT Hades. All people ever judged are judged ALIVE. Our Lord Jesus is ALIVE when the Father seats Him at His right hand. Christians are ALIVE when they are Raptured to the Bema. Israelites are ALIVE (Ezekiel 37) when they are judged after the Great Tribulation (Dan.12:1-2). "ALL Nations" who are judged at the "Throne of His glory" in Matthew 25:31-46 are ALIVE. The "dead" are "given up by Hades" and "stand" before the White Throne in Revelation 20. They are "ALIVE".

The case of the rich man shows torment for those ONLY on one side of the chasm in HADES. The other side is called Abraham's Bosom until Jesus called it Paradise. In Abraham's Bosom there was "comfort" - indicating that there was a problem too✳︎. And the word Paradise is self-explanatory. The "torment" here, according to the context, is because the rich man was a "son" of "father Abraham" - a Jew. He broke the Law. He did not listen to Moses (Deut.15:7-8)!

My friend, despite all your accusations upon your fellow Christians here on this Forum, it looks like YOUR DOCTRINE is the most unscriptural and misleading.

✳︎ In death is dis-comfort according to 2nd Corinthians 5:1-4. Lazarus, though relieved of his earthly sufferings, still groaned to be clothed on with his resurrection body

Your belief is exactly the same as 7th Day Adventist, they believe in (The Grave) as you have posted, and also upon the wickeds death with no torment, soul sleep, with a future judgement in the Lake of fire.

Are you 7th Day Adventist?

Do you believe in soul sleep?

Corban · Oct 31, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

My question is; can you read? How on earth can you say what you said when I said the rich man had torment, and Lazarus had comfort in dis-comfort.

I would say that misrepresenting another brother's words is far more serious that the doctrine of "soul sleep" - especially when you KNOW what the brother said is true.

Now, read my posting again. Or get somebody who speaks English to do it for you. Even your friends will tell you I said that Abraham could think and speak, the rich man could think, speak and be in torment, and Lazarus could be comforted because the dead have dis-comfort and GROAN!

Brother, if I was you, I would take a break. In nearly every posting you make mistakes. I, of course, make them too. Nobody is perfect. But you are almost constantly contrary to scripture.

Nebertheless, you are a well-loved and esteemed brother in Christ.

peldom10 · Nov 15, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

It is clearly illustrated in scriptures.....the taken up.........is man's description of the event with the word....rapture.
If you need references...probably not since you have a computer...let me know.

throughfaith · Nov 17, 2020

It could be that when we are born physically we are written in the book of life ( Of the living ) . And when we are saved we are written in the lambs book of life . FROM / SINCE (not before) the foundation of the world. Avoid the ESV on this one .

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Observations on the Book of Life

Blain

The Word Weaver

Blain

The Word Weaver

Truth7t7

Well-known member

Blain

The Word Weaver

Truth7t7

Well-known member

Corban

Banned

Corban

Banned

Blain

The Word Weaver

Corban

Banned

Truth7t7

Well-known member

Corban

Banned

Truth7t7

Well-known member

Corban

Banned

peldom10

Banned

throughfaith

Well-known member