Observing the sabbath???

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#21
As Christians we look first to Christ to learn about God and how God wants us to live. Christ said in Matt, 17-20: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The OT is breathed by our God, all of it is truth including the law. The law was given in symbols, using matters of the flesh to explain to man the spiritual law of truth. Christ took the fleshly symbols away, but we are to obey the law in spirit and truth.

The rest of that chapter explains how Christ fulfilled the law by showing how that works in five different commands.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
5,704
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#22
This whole discussion is moot, unless you are a Jew, living under the Old Law. The last time I looked (just now) this is still "Christian Chat", not Jewish Chat, or Pseudo Jewish Christian Chat...

There are too many scriptures that tell us that we, as believers are NOT bound by the Old Law, so any discussion or worry about "keeping the Sabbath" are decidedly non-Christian.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,175
1,334
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#23
Are we allowed to buy or sell on the sabbath?? Can we eat out on the sabbath??? Are we allowed to cook- prepare meals on sabbath??? Any help?
Yes, you are allowed to buy and sell on the Sabbath. (but you don't have to)
Yes, you can eat out on the Sabbath. (but you don't have to)
Yes, you can cook and prepare meals on the Sabbath. (but you don't have to)

For myself, I do my "Sabbath" on Sunday and find it most helpful, and restful, and refreshing to do little work. And I try not to make others work either! (Hence I seldom "eat out"). I find it refreshing to have extra quiet time for worship, reflection, and rest. Also it is often invigorating to spend time fellowshipping (or playing games, etc.) with others.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
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#24
"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because, that in it, He had rested from all his work which God created and made." (Gen 2:1-3).

The bible reveals that God blessed and set apart (sanctified) the seventh day. This day is holy unto God, and it is the only day of the week that we are commanded to honor. "Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation: ye shall do no work therein: it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings." In (Lev 23:3). A holy convocation is an assembly of the people of God, who come together to worship him.

In (Ex.31:16-17). If you're a stranger (Non-Israelite), you must also keep the Lord's Sabbath day. "Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love him, to be his servants, every one of them that keepth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Even them will I bring to my Holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar: for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people." (Isaiah 56:6-7).

Paul says in Romans 15: 4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,152
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#25
This whole discussion is moot, unless you are a Jew, living under the Old Law. The last time I looked (just now) this is still "Christian Chat", not Jewish Chat, or Pseudo Jewish Christian Chat...

There are too many scriptures that tell us that we, as believers are NOT bound by the Old Law, so any discussion or worry about "keeping the Sabbath" are decidedly non-Christian.
Christians look to Christ and follow Christ. Christ tells us he did not change anything the Father said and the Father "said" when he gave us law. You say, then that the law has to do with our birth parents, whether they were Jews or not, and we are not under what God the Father tells us. How do you account for that?
 

Inquisitor

Active member
Mar 17, 2022
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#26
The Sabbath was given before sin entered.
The sabbath was a gift for us and made holy before anyone sinned.

When it states.... Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator....
Which law is it referring to?

Added because of transgression = there must have been a law to define transgression, before this law was added.
Till the seed should come = if all laws were removed when Jesus came we would be a lawless world with no order. Sin still exists so a law must still be defining what is sin.
The shadow laws are pointing to Christ and the plan of salvation.
After Christ fulfilled the plan of salvation, the shadow laws are not needed anymore.

But the sabbath was set up before we needed a saviour so it wasn't a shadow law added after sin.
How do you know which is a shadow law and which is not?

The scripture does not tell us which laws are void. We know for a fact that 99% of the law is void.

Who decides which law is a valid law?
 

Inquisitor

Active member
Mar 17, 2022
887
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#27
The Sabbath was given before sin entered.
The sabbath was a gift for us and made holy before anyone sinned.

When it states.... Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator....
Which law is it referring to?

Added because of transgression = there must have been a law to define transgression, before this law was added.
Till the seed should come = if all laws were removed when Jesus came we would be a lawless world with no order. Sin still exists so a law must still be defining what is sin.
The shadow laws are pointing to Christ and the plan of salvation.
After Christ fulfilled the plan of salvation, the shadow laws are not needed anymore.

But the sabbath was set up before we needed a saviour so it wasn't a shadow law added after sin.
The law does not actually cater for every type of sin.

For example, gambling is a sin but the law is silent regarding gambling.

The law makes no mention of the sin of drunkenness but the prophets mention it. So we have the law plus the prophets!

We have many commandments that Jesus gave us and the apostles also gave us commands.

Jesus said, you cannot honor God and money, it's one or the other. Is that a commandment or not?

This is a very complex problem.

Though I think it has a simple solution. A solution that few would recognize.
 

Inquisitor

Active member
Mar 17, 2022
887
249
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#28
"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because, that in it, He had rested from all his work which God created and made." (Gen 2:1-3).

The bible reveals that God blessed and set apart (sanctified) the seventh day. This day is holy unto God, and it is the only day of the week that we are commanded to honor. "Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation: ye shall do no work therein: it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings." In (Lev 23:3). A holy convocation is an assembly of the people of God, who come together to worship him.

In (Ex.31:16-17). If you're a stranger (Non-Israelite), you must also keep the Lord's Sabbath day. "Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love him, to be his servants, every one of them that keepth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Even them will I bring to my Holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar: for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people." (Isaiah 56:6-7).

Paul says in Romans 15: 4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
You quoted the following.
Even them will I bring to my Holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar:
Does that mean that sacrifices are back on the table. I thought they were annulled by the sacrifice of the Christ?

What exactly did Jesus fulfill and what did Jesus not fulfill?

If Jesus did not fulfill the ten commandments then we are in big trouble.
 

Inquisitor

Active member
Mar 17, 2022
887
249
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#29
Are we allowed to buy or sell on the sabbath?? Can we eat out on the sabbath??? Are we allowed to cook- prepare meals on sabbath??? Any help?
If you want my opinion.

Buying and selling is causing others to work, to transgress the Sabbath. You force them to sin and become liable yourself.

Same goes for eating out, others transgressing the Sabbath to feed your face. You were told to prepare your food on the day of preparation.

You cannot prepare or cook food on the Sabbath day.

To celebrate the day of the resurrection which occurred on the first day. You need to gather with others on a Sunday to celebrate the risen Christ. That is the tradition which we have received

One is a rest day a quiet day.

The other is a day of celebration and joy, a time to break the bread and give Jesus high praise.

A busy weekend for any legalist.

Mwhaaaaaaaaaa.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
5,704
866
113
#30
Christians look to Christ and follow Christ. Christ tells us he did not change anything the Father said and the Father "said" when he gave us law. You say, then that the law has to do with our birth parents, whether they were Jews or not, and we are not under what God the Father tells us. How do you account for that?
God said a lot of things that were meant for the Jews... the ones under the Old Law. There are probably hundreds of things that were said to them, that nobody in their right mind would try to keep today.
Again, under the NEW law, that Jesus brought us, we were told specifically that we were not bound by the Old Law. This includes all the sabbaths that the Jews kept, and the tithing, and animal sacrifices... not to mention the ritual cleansings for women menstruating, etc...
If you insist on keeping ANY of the Old Law, you are binding yourself to keeping ALL of it.... which nobody can do... which means you will have to offer animal sacrifices to atone for your sins...
If you choose to observe sabbaths, fine... just don't try to make it binding on any others... if you choose to not eat pork, fine... don't try to make it spiritually binding.
We believers are under a new law.... according to scripture, anyway.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
709
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#31
You quoted the following.
Does that mean that sacrifices are back on the table. I thought they were annulled by the sacrifice of the Christ?

What exactly did Jesus fulfill and what did Jesus not fulfill?

If Jesus did not fulfill the ten commandments then we are in big trouble.

Those are good questions, also a lot to explain and or teach in a small amount of time.


You quoted the following.
Does that mean that sacrifices are back on the table. I thought they were annulled by the sacrifice of the Christ?
The Lord will bring those Sacrifices back in the future, during his 1000yr millennium period. Because in those days we will have the Priest, the Levites back in order. Let's go into Ezekiel 44: 15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD: 16 they shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge. Let's go into Ezekiel 45: 18 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary: 19 and the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court. 20 And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erreth, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house. 21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.


What exactly did Jesus fulfill and what did Jesus not fulfill?

If Jesus did not fulfill the ten commandments then we are in big trouble.

In (Matthew 5:17), Jesus made the statement Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. He came not to destroy the law, or the prophets, but to fulfill. In (Matthew 5:18), Jesus Himself states For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Now you will find in a concordance that jot and tittle mean letter. Here Jesus clearly states that not one letter of the law will be changed as long as heaven and earth exist. We know that the law came from the Old Testament so based solely on (Matthew 5:18), it nor the Old Testament can not be done away with. There is clearly a discrepancy between what is being taught and what the scriptures say. The fact, that Jesus came to fulfill is known, because that is what is stated in (Matthew 5:17). But one needs to find out what He was to fulfill, since that is the condition put forth in (Matthew 5:18), when He said no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

The Gospel of Luke, will reveal what Jesus meant when He said in (Matthew 5:17 & 18), that He came to fulfill and no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled. Looking at Luke chapter 24:14-44, you will find that , this is when Jesus had been crucified and Peter and others were at the grave site and they were contemplating the events that had occurred. Verse 16, tells you that Jesus had come among them but they did not know Him. In verse 17, Jesus asks them what were they discussing,

(17) And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

In verse 19 and 20, they explained to Jesus what had taken place, still not recognizing Him. Verse 21, tells why they were sad, they had expected Jesus to restore Israel. (Israel as a nation , had a history of being conquered by other nations. They had been split into two kingdoms and the northern kingdom had already been taken into captivity prior to this time. All that remained was Judah, and now it had been taken over by Rome.) Now this was the 3rd day since Jesus crucifixion and they were in question because to them nothing had changed. Israel still remained in its same state. Note what Jesus says to them in verse 25:

(25) Then he said unto them, O fool, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Now the prophets had spoke of many things that Jesus was to do when He came. However they were just focused on the redemption of Israel. That is why Jesus told them in verse 25 that they were not bringing into remembrance all the things that were spoken of Him by the prophets. He reminded them in verse 26 that He had to suffer first and then enter into glory. He then in verse 27 went over all that the scriptures had to say concerning Himself. Following is verse 27,

(27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.

The following verse explains what Jesus meant in (Matthew 5:17) where He said He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill. Jesus says in (Luke 24:44) And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Here Jesus makes it clear that all things written about Him in the Old Testament must be fulfilled. Knowing that all things must be fulfilled by Jesus, as long as heaven and earth is still here, tells us that the law (Commandments) are still here as well and must be kept. We have to understand that all thinks are not fulfilled because Jesus ministry was cut off, which will continue at his second coming.
 

Inquisitor

Active member
Mar 17, 2022
887
249
43
#32
Those are good questions, also a lot to explain and or teach in a small amount of time.




The Lord will bring those Sacrifices back in the future, during his 1000yr millennium period. Because in those days we will have the Priest, the Levites back in order. Let's go into Ezekiel 44: 15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD: 16 they shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge. Let's go into Ezekiel 45: 18 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary: 19 and the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court. 20 And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erreth, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house. 21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.





In (Matthew 5:17), Jesus made the statement Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. He came not to destroy the law, or the prophets, but to fulfill. In (Matthew 5:18), Jesus Himself states For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Now you will find in a concordance that jot and tittle mean letter. Here Jesus clearly states that not one letter of the law will be changed as long as heaven and earth exist. We know that the law came from the Old Testament so based solely on (Matthew 5:18), it nor the Old Testament can not be done away with. There is clearly a discrepancy between what is being taught and what the scriptures say. The fact, that Jesus came to fulfill is known, because that is what is stated in (Matthew 5:17). But one needs to find out what He was to fulfill, since that is the condition put forth in (Matthew 5:18), when He said no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

The Gospel of Luke, will reveal what Jesus meant when He said in (Matthew 5:17 & 18), that He came to fulfill and no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled. Looking at Luke chapter 24:14-44, you will find that , this is when Jesus had been crucified and Peter and others were at the grave site and they were contemplating the events that had occurred. Verse 16, tells you that Jesus had come among them but they did not know Him. In verse 17, Jesus asks them what were they discussing,

(17) And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

In verse 19 and 20, they explained to Jesus what had taken place, still not recognizing Him. Verse 21, tells why they were sad, they had expected Jesus to restore Israel. (Israel as a nation , had a history of being conquered by other nations. They had been split into two kingdoms and the northern kingdom had already been taken into captivity prior to this time. All that remained was Judah, and now it had been taken over by Rome.) Now this was the 3rd day since Jesus crucifixion and they were in question because to them nothing had changed. Israel still remained in its same state. Note what Jesus says to them in verse 25:

(25) Then he said unto them, O fool, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Now the prophets had spoke of many things that Jesus was to do when He came. However they were just focused on the redemption of Israel. That is why Jesus told them in verse 25 that they were not bringing into remembrance all the things that were spoken of Him by the prophets. He reminded them in verse 26 that He had to suffer first and then enter into glory. He then in verse 27 went over all that the scriptures had to say concerning Himself. Following is verse 27,

(27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.

The following verse explains what Jesus meant in (Matthew 5:17) where He said He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill. Jesus says in (Luke 24:44) And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Here Jesus makes it clear that all things written about Him in the Old Testament must be fulfilled. Knowing that all things must be fulfilled by Jesus, as long as heaven and earth is still here, tells us that the law (Commandments) are still here as well and must be kept. We have to understand that all thinks are not fulfilled because Jesus ministry was cut off, which will continue at his second coming.
Someone is wrong.

You said, "The Lord will bring those Sacrifices back in the future, during his 1000yr millennium period."

Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial law by sacrificing Himself. Why would Jesus reimpose sacrifices for sin?

Did Jesus fulfill the law or not?
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
709
122
43
#33
Someone is wrong.

You said, "The Lord will bring those Sacrifices back in the future, during his 1000yr millennium period."

Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial law by sacrificing Himself. Why would Jesus reimpose sacrifices for sin?

Did Jesus fulfill the law or not?
So you will have to take time and study these things for yourself with the help I provided. All things are not fulfilled until Jesus makes his second coming. Daniel the prophet foretold the doing away of this law. (Dan 9:26-27) And after threescore and two weeks shall Mes-si’-ah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Now we know that Jesus is the Mes-si’-ah, and cut off means to be killed, and Jesus didn’t die for himself, but for the sins of the people. (v.27) “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” When Jesus died on the cross he caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. This signified the end of the law of animal sacrifice, not Gods Royal law.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. I'm not 100% sure why Jesus will bring back the Sacrifices at that time, but it's written that he will. Plus at that time in the future David will be King again and the Levities will be back on their job..... and I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. (Ezekiel 37: 22, 24-25)
 
Jul 14, 2019
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#34
I knew people who wouldn't buy on the Sabbath. They were good people. I personally think food service is just the same as cooking at home. But it's really up to employers to decide if manual labor is done on the Sabbath. After all you can't lose your job. It's up to christian leaders to decide in the work place.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,152
2,306
113
#35
God said a lot of things that were meant for the Jews...UOTE]

Do you think that because God spoke to the Jews rather than the gentiles, that what he told the Jews was not the truth?

I think God is truth, and who God addresses does not change that.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
5,704
866
113
#36
So, you are saying that you keep ALL the Old Law commandments, is that correct?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,152
2,306
113
#37
So, you are saying that you keep ALL the Old Law commandments, is that correct?
Scripture tells me that I am not to keep the OT laws that were only symbols of the spirit of the law.

Christ explained what we are to do in regard to keeping the law---being that we as humans are not capable of perfectly keeping the law. We are to want to keep the law and sorry when we don't-----scripture calls it repent.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
2,617
663
113
Australia
#38
So, you are saying that you keep ALL the Old Law commandments, is that correct?
There is some decernment needed to understand which laws are unchanging and which laws were given for the time.
The Jews were to be a light to all the people around. Many became Jews that were not born a Jew.

The thing that made someone part of the Israeli nation was if you followed the laws.

Jesus has fulfilled many of the old testament laws, and we no longer need to practice these laws because Jesus is the fulness of them.

But some laws don't change.

The sabbath was made holy before sin came into our world and before a Jew existed. The Sabbath has not changed or been unsactified by God.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
2,617
663
113
Australia
#40
So what do you see as proper, Biblical behavior on the Sabbath, other than "rest" ?
Keeping in mind that the Sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath. We are to take the day as a gift from God. A time each week to spend time with Jesus. A time to forget about money and work, so you can spend time with God.
I like to spend time in nature and spend time in my bible.
If you talk to God about it He will lead you into all truth.
I praise God for the sabbath each week.