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Often misunderstood part of the Bible (1 John 1:8-19)
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Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. 1 John 3:7 says, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness is righteous. This is not man's righteousness of his own effort (Which is what Works Salvationists propose), but this is the righteousness of God working in the believer after they repented of their sins and accepted the Lord for real.
Conforming to the image of Christ is a day to day process. Salvation is in walking after the Spirit in Christ Jesus where there is no Condemnation (Romans 8:1).
As for preaching unconditional love: Well, if you preach unconditional love then everyone would be saved. But we both know that is not the case. People who do evil are evil (Which comes from their evil hearts). People who follow after God and walk in His good ways are allowing God to do His good work within them. They have yielded to the Lord and allowed Him to regenerate them and make them a new creature whereby the fruit (in their life) is good and not bad.
As for preaching unconditional love: Well, if you preach unconditional love then everyone would be saved. But we both know that is not the case. People who do evil are evil (Which comes from their evil hearts). People who follow after God and walk in His good ways are allowing God to do His good work within them. They have yielded to the Lord and allowed Him to regenerate them and make them a new creature whereby the fruit (in their life) is good and not bad.
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No that is not true. and you are foolish to even say such a thing.
Unconditional love offers the same gift to all mankind. He just will not force you to take it, He wants you to desire it, and acknowledge it. That is not a condition. that is a desire
ALL sin is evil in the eyes of a holy and righteous God.
So unless your claiming to be sinless. You have just condemned yourself.
Unconditional love offers the same gift to all mankind. He just will not force you to take it, He wants you to desire it, and acknowledge it. That is not a condition. that is a desire
ALL sin is evil in the eyes of a holy and righteous God.
So unless your claiming to be sinless. You have just condemned yourself.
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Those who are born of God based on faith have been given the righteousness of God IN THEM. it is they, who through th epower of the HS do righteous works. because they have experienced Gods true love and forgiveness.
Those like you trying to earn it, are not righteous, your works are dead works. and God will reject them as bloody rags.
as a good man said once.
we will all hand God our cup (life)
What kind of Cup will we hand him. One which was completely cleansed by the blood of Christ?
One which is full of sin (urine) and has very little if any water?
or one which is completely full of water, yet has a few drops of urine in it.
which cup would you take?
it does not matter if your cup is full of urine, or only has a few drops of urine, both glasses will be rejected.
Those like you trying to earn it, are not righteous, your works are dead works. and God will reject them as bloody rags.
as a good man said once.
we will all hand God our cup (life)
What kind of Cup will we hand him. One which was completely cleansed by the blood of Christ?
One which is full of sin (urine) and has very little if any water?
or one which is completely full of water, yet has a few drops of urine in it.
which cup would you take?
it does not matter if your cup is full of urine, or only has a few drops of urine, both glasses will be rejected.
No, we are not talking about God's love alone but we are talking about God's plan of salvation for mankind.
There are certain conditions for an unbeliever to accept in order to be saved.
I am claiming that I am forgiven of sin and cleansed of all unrighteousness because I have confessed my sins (1 John 1:9). I am claiming not to be under the Condemnation because I walk after the Spirit in Christ Jesus (and not a walk after the flesh).
There are certain conditions for an unbeliever to accept in order to be saved.
I am claiming that I am forgiven of sin and cleansed of all unrighteousness because I have confessed my sins (1 John 1:9). I am claiming not to be under the Condemnation because I walk after the Spirit in Christ Jesus (and not a walk after the flesh).
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No this is not true, Jesus met those conditions. because mankind has gotten to the point he can not meet any of those conditions.
If man could meet the conditions, Jesus would never have had to endure the cross. it would be foolish for him to.
You have far to many I's in there for it to be in God.
You trust (I do this, I do that)
You do not trust (God did this)
As long as you do this, your practicing and preaching a gospel of works. and trying to earn your own salvation, thus rejecting the salvation of God.
It is simple. If you say I, you are boasting.
If man could meet the conditions, Jesus would never have had to endure the cross. it would be foolish for him to.
You have far to many I's in there for it to be in God.
You trust (I do this, I do that)
You do not trust (God did this)
As long as you do this, your practicing and preaching a gospel of works. and trying to earn your own salvation, thus rejecting the salvation of God.
It is simple. If you say I, you are boasting.
You are falsely accusing me of something I don't believe because you don't understand what I believe (According to what the Scriptures teach). I am not trying to earn salvation. I am saved right here and right now by God's grace (apart from the deeds of the Law). I do not believe in having to go out tomorrow and doing something to be saved. I am saved by God's grace now. For if I do sin, I have an advocate named Jesus Christ that I can go to in order to confess my sin and be forgiven of it and cleansed of it. So this is trusting in what Christ has done and not in what I have done. I am forgiven of sin by what he has done. I access his grace, by going to Him and not myself and what I can do.
This then naturally leads one to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Because a believer allows God to do the good work within them). So it is not their work, but God's Work.
But believers do not condone a lifestyle of sin, though. Future sin is not forgiven them. No Bible verse ever says such a thing. A believer cannot do both good and evil at the same time. One cannot ignore their sin. They need to confess and forsake it.
This then naturally leads one to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Because a believer allows God to do the good work within them). So it is not their work, but God's Work.
But believers do not condone a lifestyle of sin, though. Future sin is not forgiven them. No Bible verse ever says such a thing. A believer cannot do both good and evil at the same time. One cannot ignore their sin. They need to confess and forsake it.
No, an unbelieving person has to repent, believe, and accept Jesus Christ in order to be saved. This is a Condition. If they don't meet this Condition, then they are not saved. So nobody did nothing in order to receive the free gift of salvation. Salvation is not forced upon the entire world. A person has to receive the free gift. That's a Condition. God is not going to force save people. You have to choose this day whom ye will serve. For a person is either serving the devil or they are serving God. Jesus said we will know a false prophet by their fruits. So is the fruit of the Spirit in a person's life or is bad fruit or sin in a believer's life?
Jesus said, by their fruits, we will know them.
Jesus said, by their fruits, we will know them.
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Thats not a condition, that is a position. (a position of hopelessness)
one will not repent if they do not believe what God says, do not trust him in what he says, and does not think he needs what God is offering.
thats called humility,
it is not up to me to determine a mans salvation, thats up to God. many people appear to be producing fruit, but their fruit is rotten to the core, because the attitude of the heart and serving others is what produces fruit.
if your doing things to be saved, your self centered, your not doing them out of love, your doing them to receive a reward.
Not of works, lest anyone should boast.
if your using the word I in your gospel. you are boasting (works)
that is not of God.
one will not repent if they do not believe what God says, do not trust him in what he says, and does not think he needs what God is offering.
thats called humility,
it is not up to me to determine a mans salvation, thats up to God. many people appear to be producing fruit, but their fruit is rotten to the core, because the attitude of the heart and serving others is what produces fruit.
if your doing things to be saved, your self centered, your not doing them out of love, your doing them to receive a reward.
Not of works, lest anyone should boast.
if your using the word I in your gospel. you are boasting (works)
that is not of God.
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lol, dude, I once believed as you do. I understand EXACTLY what you teach. Don;t be using these strawmen arguments to try to get out of the fact. they are not helping you.
If you stopped here, I would agree with you, and say you are preaching salvation by grace through faith, But you do not stop here. You coontinue on, and hammer another nail of your coffin of "i teach works to earn salvation"
See you had to blow. it, You claimed God did not know you would do that sin when he saved you in the first place. That God is sitting there in heaven, you sinned, and God says, Wow I did not know he was going to do that, I better take my free gift away if he does not repent again.
You just placed a work as a prerequisite of salvation, your no different than the jews and the catholics.
Yet you do not teach Gods works, you teach your works. because if you do not do something it is sin. This is gods word. not mine.
I am not condoning a lifestyle of sin, I condone what John said, One who is born of God can not sin, because of sin which is in him, one who sins has never seen God or known him.
So not only do you take credit for your salvation, work for it, But you call the apostle John a liar.
If you stopped here, I would agree with you, and say you are preaching salvation by grace through faith, But you do not stop here. You coontinue on, and hammer another nail of your coffin of "i teach works to earn salvation"
See you had to blow. it, You claimed God did not know you would do that sin when he saved you in the first place. That God is sitting there in heaven, you sinned, and God says, Wow I did not know he was going to do that, I better take my free gift away if he does not repent again.
You just placed a work as a prerequisite of salvation, your no different than the jews and the catholics.
Yet you do not teach Gods works, you teach your works. because if you do not do something it is sin. This is gods word. not mine.
I am not condoning a lifestyle of sin, I condone what John said, One who is born of God can not sin, because of sin which is in him, one who sins has never seen God or known him.
So not only do you take credit for your salvation, work for it, But you call the apostle John a liar.
Uh, no. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. God's will is that all should come to repentance. So yet, we do not see God's desire being accomplished in that fact. So no. It is a Condition and not just a Position. God does not force salvation upon people. If that was the case, then the Judgment would just be a farce.
As for Works Salvationism: I already I don't believe that. Please stop trying to argue that I believe that (When I don't believe such a thing). I have argued with Works Salvationists before. So you are barking up the wrong tree.
As for Works Salvationism: I already I don't believe that. Please stop trying to argue that I believe that (When I don't believe such a thing). I have argued with Works Salvationists before. So you are barking up the wrong tree.
I also believed as you did, too. Granted it was for a very short time, but I realized it was false doctrine because there are so many Scripture verses that speak out against a sin and still be saved doctrine. When I say "sin and still be saved", I am saying that you believe that when a believer dies and does not confess a sin, they are still going to Heaven. When I say "sin and still be saved": I am saying that you believe all future sin is forgiven you and that there is no sin that can separate you from God. That sin only leads to physical death and not spiritual death. However, this type of belief will eventually lead a person into having a "license to sin" because there is no real everlasting consequences to what they do here (That will truly matter to them).
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No. If that was true, every person would be saved.
it is a position, because the person in a position of pride will reject Gods grace, and either not believe in it at all. or try to work to earn it.
Where a person who comes to Gods grace in repentance is in a position of complete humility, Like the tax collector.
you must have argued in vein, Because you preach it, Your gospel is no different than theres.
If salvation can be lost, it must be earned, thus it becomes a reward based on your work, and not a free gift based On Gods mercy love and forgiveness being offered to you, and you trusting in him (faith)
it is a position, because the person in a position of pride will reject Gods grace, and either not believe in it at all. or try to work to earn it.
Where a person who comes to Gods grace in repentance is in a position of complete humility, Like the tax collector.
you must have argued in vein, Because you preach it, Your gospel is no different than theres.
If salvation can be lost, it must be earned, thus it becomes a reward based on your work, and not a free gift based On Gods mercy love and forgiveness being offered to you, and you trusting in him (faith)
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Your giving people a license to sin, You claim they can sin and as long as they say, Opps sorry God I did not mean it" they are ok.
I am not giving anyone a license to sin, and you have never believed as I do, if you did, you would still believe as I do. how do I know? Because you would not preach how holy and righteous you are. you would preach how much of a sinner you are. and how you get on your knees daily and thank God for saving a wretched soul such as yourself.
You have never reached my state of humility toward God. Your still stuck in pride of you.
I am not giving anyone a license to sin, and you have never believed as I do, if you did, you would still believe as I do. how do I know? Because you would not preach how holy and righteous you are. you would preach how much of a sinner you are. and how you get on your knees daily and thank God for saving a wretched soul such as yourself.
You have never reached my state of humility toward God. Your still stuck in pride of you.
The statements below say all that need to be said...when confronted on them he switched his story...and added to what he had said......one contradiction after another for sure.....
Originally Posted by Jason0047 Well, not to drag you into it personally (Because I don't know your life), but for clarity on this point, a believer cannot abide in unrepentant sin and think they are saved. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. This is not a one time event but a continued relationship and walk with the Lord.
Originally Posted by Jason0047 Well, not to drag you into it personally (Because I don't know your life), but for clarity on this point, a believer cannot abide in unrepentant sin and think they are saved. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. This is not a one time event but a continued relationship and walk with the Lord.
Uh, now wait a minute. If I was Once Saved Always Saved and believed that doctrine, then by all rights to that belief, I should have been saved eternally for believing it. Right? If you say no, then it refutes the thinking that one can be Once Saved Always Saved. In fact, I am not the only one, either. There are people who have believed in OSAS whole heartedly for many many years and have come out of it. Even a Pastor and his wife came out of OSAS because of what Scripture says. I mean, just look at the fruits of OSAS. Look at George Sodini, the poster child of Eternal Security.
GEORGE SODINI
Jesus said we will know false prophets by their fruits.
As for the Tax Collector: Well, the Pharisee's life actually is more in line with OSAS than say the Tax Collector. OSAS proponents just believe they are child's of God and that no sin can separate them from God. That confessing sin is not required. Instead they persecute the Tax Collector who is being humble before God.
As for your argument that there is no Condition for an unbeliever to meet in order to be saved, then how are they saved? Does God force them? Or do they choose the Lord? Would not choosing the Lord be a Condition of salvation? Can your belief be illustrated into a real life parable like Jesus did when he wanted to show us a spiritual truth? Well, I am not expecting you to do so because I know it cannot be illustrated in real life. Hence, why OSAS is a false doctrine. It has no basis in reality whatseover.
GEORGE SODINI
Jesus said we will know false prophets by their fruits.
As for the Tax Collector: Well, the Pharisee's life actually is more in line with OSAS than say the Tax Collector. OSAS proponents just believe they are child's of God and that no sin can separate them from God. That confessing sin is not required. Instead they persecute the Tax Collector who is being humble before God.
As for your argument that there is no Condition for an unbeliever to meet in order to be saved, then how are they saved? Does God force them? Or do they choose the Lord? Would not choosing the Lord be a Condition of salvation? Can your belief be illustrated into a real life parable like Jesus did when he wanted to show us a spiritual truth? Well, I am not expecting you to do so because I know it cannot be illustrated in real life. Hence, why OSAS is a false doctrine. It has no basis in reality whatseover.
Do you believe future sin is forgiven? Yes or no?
Do you believe sin in a believer's life only leads to physical death and not spiritual death? Yes or no?
If you said yes to any one of these questions above then you have just taken away any incentive for a person to do what is truly good and right. Just as if you said to a child that they can eat all the candy they want with no real consequences attached.
Do you believe sin in a believer's life only leads to physical death and not spiritual death? Yes or no?
If you said yes to any one of these questions above then you have just taken away any incentive for a person to do what is truly good and right. Just as if you said to a child that they can eat all the candy they want with no real consequences attached.