Often misunderstood part of the Bible (1 John 1:8-19)
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Sin is separation from God:
Isaiah 59:2
Micah 3:4
Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves in an evil way in their deeds.
Ezekiel 39:23-24
And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them
Isaiah 1:15
And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
Deuteronomy 31:17-18
Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.
Proverbs 1:28 CJB and Proverbs 1:29
Then they will call me, but I won’t answer; they will seek me earnestly, but they won’t find me. For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord
Isaiah 57:17 ESV
Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry, I struck him; I hid my face and was angry, but he went on backsliding in the way of his own heart.
Proverbs 15:29
The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.
Deuteronomy 32:19-20 KJ2
And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very perverse generation, children in whom is no faith.
John 9:31 ESV
We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.
Proverbs 28:9
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
Job 27:8-9 GNV
For what hope hath the hypocrite when he hath heaped up riches, if God take away his soul? Will God hear his cry, when trouble cometh upon him?
Zechariah 7:13 KJ2
Therefore it has come to pass that as He cried and they would not hear, so they cried and I would not hear,” saith the Lord of hosts.
Ezekiel 8:17-18 NLT
Have you seen this, son of man?” he asked. “Is it nothing to the people of Judah that they commit these detestable sins, leading the whole nation into violence, thumbing their noses at me, and provoking my anger? Therefore, I will respond in fury. I will neither pity nor spare them. And though they cry for mercy, I will not listen.
Jeremiah 14:10-12
Thus saith the Lord unto this people, Thus have they loved to wander, they have not refrained their feet, therefore the Lord doth not accept them; he will now remember their iniquity, and visit their sins. Then said the Lord unto me, Pray not for this people for their good. When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and an oblation, I will not accept them: but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence.
Isaiah 58:9 HCSB
At that time, when you call, the Lord will answer; when you cry out, He will say, ‘Here I am.’ If you get rid of the yoke among you, the finger-pointing and malicious speaking,
Proverbs 21:13
Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.
Psalm 66:18
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me
Psalm 34:15-16
The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry. The face of the Lord is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Micah 3:4
Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves in an evil way in their deeds.
Ezekiel 39:23-24
And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them
Isaiah 1:15
And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
Deuteronomy 31:17-18
Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.
Proverbs 1:28 CJB and Proverbs 1:29
Then they will call me, but I won’t answer; they will seek me earnestly, but they won’t find me. For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord
Isaiah 57:17 ESV
Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry, I struck him; I hid my face and was angry, but he went on backsliding in the way of his own heart.
Proverbs 15:29
The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.
Deuteronomy 32:19-20 KJ2
And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very perverse generation, children in whom is no faith.
John 9:31 ESV
We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.
Proverbs 28:9
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
Job 27:8-9 GNV
For what hope hath the hypocrite when he hath heaped up riches, if God take away his soul? Will God hear his cry, when trouble cometh upon him?
Zechariah 7:13 KJ2
Therefore it has come to pass that as He cried and they would not hear, so they cried and I would not hear,” saith the Lord of hosts.
Ezekiel 8:17-18 NLT
Have you seen this, son of man?” he asked. “Is it nothing to the people of Judah that they commit these detestable sins, leading the whole nation into violence, thumbing their noses at me, and provoking my anger? Therefore, I will respond in fury. I will neither pity nor spare them. And though they cry for mercy, I will not listen.
Jeremiah 14:10-12
Thus saith the Lord unto this people, Thus have they loved to wander, they have not refrained their feet, therefore the Lord doth not accept them; he will now remember their iniquity, and visit their sins. Then said the Lord unto me, Pray not for this people for their good. When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and an oblation, I will not accept them: but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence.
Isaiah 58:9 HCSB
At that time, when you call, the Lord will answer; when you cry out, He will say, ‘Here I am.’ If you get rid of the yoke among you, the finger-pointing and malicious speaking,
Proverbs 21:13
Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.
Psalm 66:18
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me
Psalm 34:15-16
The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry. The face of the Lord is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
I don't. Believers will not ignore sin and they will immediately deal with it by confessing their sin and forsaking it with the Lord's help and sometimes with the help of the body of Christ.
As for certain OSAS proponents not justifying their sin openly: Well, who wants to look like the bad guy to other people? The only good comes from God. I am nothing. Christ is everything. He is the One who is all good and who cleanses me and works in my life of any good that I do.
As for certain OSAS proponents not justifying their sin openly: Well, who wants to look like the bad guy to other people? The only good comes from God. I am nothing. Christ is everything. He is the One who is all good and who cleanses me and works in my life of any good that I do.
Well, I don't believe in earning salvation or "Works Salvationism." I have argued with "Works Salvationists" before and I do not agree with them. So that is not what I believe.
As for a believer praising God that he is not like those who struggle with sin: Well, I don't do that. I am merely against sin like God is against sin. For do you think God is not against sin? Does not the Scriptures say, be ye holy as God is holy? Did not Jesus say be ye perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect? But again, the Tax Collector and the Pharisee disproves the sin and still be saved OSAS teaching, though. Now, if you believe in the OSAS version (i.e. OSAS Lite) that teaches one has to be holy in order to be right with God, then you will have no trouble from me. But I don't think you believe that, my friend.
As for a believer praising God that he is not like those who struggle with sin: Well, I don't do that. I am merely against sin like God is against sin. For do you think God is not against sin? Does not the Scriptures say, be ye holy as God is holy? Did not Jesus say be ye perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect? But again, the Tax Collector and the Pharisee disproves the sin and still be saved OSAS teaching, though. Now, if you believe in the OSAS version (i.e. OSAS Lite) that teaches one has to be holy in order to be right with God, then you will have no trouble from me. But I don't think you believe that, my friend.
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Why do you continue to ignore verse 8 and 10 when reading 1 John 1:9 and turn this into a "confess each sin that we commit as we commit them (and God forbid if you forget one) maintenance program in order to remain saved?" All have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 6:23). That has not changed.
Other believers can help pray for another believer who is struggling with sin (So as to overcome it)
They can also encourage them to stay holy, too.
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (James 5:15-16).
Backslidden unsaved believers (because of sin)
can brought back to saving faith in Jesus by another brother or sister:
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. (Galatias 6:2).
They can also encourage them to stay holy, too.
If any man see his brother sin a sin
which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death (1 John 5:16)
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (James 5:15-16).
Backslidden unsaved believers (because of sin)
can brought back to saving faith in Jesus by another brother or sister:
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:19-20).
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. (Galatias 6:2).
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Well, I just recently addressed Romans 3. Romans 3:23 has to be read in context. Unless of course you believe no believer seeks after God and or no believer understands His ways (Romans 3:11).
As for 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10. It does not say anything about a general confession of sin here. 1 John 2:1 refutes that type of thinking. John says we are to sin not. Meaning any kind of sin. But if we do sin. Still talking about one sin here. Then we have an advocate that we can go to named Jesus Christ (Whereby we would confess our sin so ast to be cleansed by Him).
1 John 1:8 would address both the singular sin one has committed in their life and or their many sins. In other words, lets say Joe (who is a believer) commits the sin of stealing. What if Joe refuses to admit this sin before the Lord? What if Joe (believing he is forgiven of this sin but he just doesn't feel he has to confess it or admit that it is wrong) thinks he can steal again if he wants? Would not 1 John 1:8 perfectly apply to him? For Joe is essentially saying to the Lord that he has no sin if this is the case. Joe has an erroneous seccionist view that he is forgiven of his sin of stealing regardless if he asks for forgiveness or not.
1 John 1:10 is dealing with the false seccionists who believed they can sin and still be saved. They believe that they have no sin. That when they sinned in the past as a believer, they have not actually sinned. The context is 1 John 1:6 and 1 John 1:7. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. How can you abide in even one unrepentant sin and say you are walking in the light as he is in the light? 1 John 1:6 says if we say we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness (This would include just one sin), then we lie and do not the truth. This is repeated using different words in the next chapter (See 1 John 2:3-6).
As for 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10. It does not say anything about a general confession of sin here. 1 John 2:1 refutes that type of thinking. John says we are to sin not. Meaning any kind of sin. But if we do sin. Still talking about one sin here. Then we have an advocate that we can go to named Jesus Christ (Whereby we would confess our sin so ast to be cleansed by Him).
1 John 1:8 would address both the singular sin one has committed in their life and or their many sins. In other words, lets say Joe (who is a believer) commits the sin of stealing. What if Joe refuses to admit this sin before the Lord? What if Joe (believing he is forgiven of this sin but he just doesn't feel he has to confess it or admit that it is wrong) thinks he can steal again if he wants? Would not 1 John 1:8 perfectly apply to him? For Joe is essentially saying to the Lord that he has no sin if this is the case. Joe has an erroneous seccionist view that he is forgiven of his sin of stealing regardless if he asks for forgiveness or not.
1 John 1:10 is dealing with the false seccionists who believed they can sin and still be saved. They believe that they have no sin. That when they sinned in the past as a believer, they have not actually sinned. The context is 1 John 1:6 and 1 John 1:7. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. How can you abide in even one unrepentant sin and say you are walking in the light as he is in the light? 1 John 1:6 says if we say we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness (This would include just one sin), then we lie and do not the truth. This is repeated using different words in the next chapter (See 1 John 2:3-6).
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God's people are not always perfect (But they are being perfected). However, true believers are not like the world in the fact they sin all the time like them habitually (As a way of life). There is a clear distinct difference between them. Paul mentions this several times. In Ephesians 2 and in Colossians 3. Paul essentially said we used to be that way, but we are not that way anymore. For they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24).
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I am not currently a sinner or sinning at this time. I do not live in habitual sin. Believers are never described as sinners. Believers are described as saints in the Bible and not evil people. Good guys do good and they do not do evil. This is Morality 101. Yoiu know this when you watch a movie and or when you turn on the news. You know the good guys from the bad guys by what they do.
I am not talking about Works Salvationism here. The Works in one's life is simply the result or fruit of the Lord working in a believer. For Christ (God) is the source of one's salvation; And if a person has God in their life, then good fruit will manifest in their life and not sin, darkness, and evil. Yes, at times God's people can sin. But this is not done as a way of life like how an unbeliever would sin. For God's people are good and they are not evil.
I am not talking about Works Salvationism here. The Works in one's life is simply the result or fruit of the Lord working in a believer. For Christ (God) is the source of one's salvation; And if a person has God in their life, then good fruit will manifest in their life and not sin, darkness, and evil. Yes, at times God's people can sin. But this is not done as a way of life like how an unbeliever would sin. For God's people are good and they are not evil.
S
When a child asks a father for forgiveness, what is the reasoning for the request?
It is not out of fear of disownment,
but respect for the father, and the need for their favor and blessing.
It can also be out of fear of chastisment, or out of plea to be removed from current chastisement.
Fear of disownment displays a lack of trust of the father, a lack of understanding a father's love, and a feeling of their own childhood being dependent upon performance rather than state.
It is not out of fear of disownment,
but respect for the father, and the need for their favor and blessing.
It can also be out of fear of chastisment, or out of plea to be removed from current chastisement.
Fear of disownment displays a lack of trust of the father, a lack of understanding a father's love, and a feeling of their own childhood being dependent upon performance rather than state.
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Long List of Verses Refuting OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):
Source Used:
Your handy-dandy long list of verses against OSAS - BaptistBoard.com
- Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.
- Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.
- Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.
- Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.
- Matthew 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 - Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.
- Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.
- Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.
- Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.
- Mark 13:13 - But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally (Also see Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:22-23, 1 Timothy 4:16,Hebrews 10:35-39, Revelation 2:10)
- Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).
- Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?
- Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.
- John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).
- John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.
- John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.
- John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?
- Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.
- Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.
- Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.
- Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.
- Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.
- Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.
- 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.
- 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.
- 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.
- 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.
- Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.
- Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.
- Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
- Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.
- Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.
- Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.
- Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
… so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.
- Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.
- Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.
- Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.
- 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.
- 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.
- 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.
- 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).
- 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.
- Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.
- Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?
- Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
- Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.
- Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).
- Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).
- Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.
- Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.
- Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.
- Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.
- Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.
- Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.
- Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.
- James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.
- 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.
- 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.
- 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.
- 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.
- 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
- 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.
- 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.
- 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.
- Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality
- Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.
- Revelation 2:10 - Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life (Also see Mark 13:13 above).
- Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).
- Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.
- Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.
- Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
- Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.
- Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.
- Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.
- Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.
Source Used:
Your handy-dandy long list of verses against OSAS - BaptistBoard.com
Well, this the popular teaching in the churches today. Many will say that once a son, they are always a son. However, in the story of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32) when the son was disobedient to his father and was considered dead (i.e. the words "dead" and "alive again" in regards to the son is used twice by his own father), and the son (did not consider himself a son anymore) but he was willing to come back and work for his father as a hired hand (as a servant). This story's message is for all those born again believers who have backslidden in their faith. It is also a story for the Jewish nation to recognize it's Savior as being Jesus Christ, as well.
In fact, James 5:19-20 and the Parable of the Prodigal Son both illustrate the possibility in how one can be in favor with the Lord, fall away (because of sin), and then come back. James says that if a brother errors from the truth you convert him back, you will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. In the prodigal son parable, the father said his son was dead but when he came back, he said his son was alive again.
In fact, James 5:19-20 and the Parable of the Prodigal Son both illustrate the possibility in how one can be in favor with the Lord, fall away (because of sin), and then come back. James says that if a brother errors from the truth you convert him back, you will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. In the prodigal son parable, the father said his son was dead but when he came back, he said his son was alive again.
Why do you think the worst?
I do not live in habitual unrepentant sin and my life is not characterized by doing sinful things all the time.
I mean do you not believe God's people generally live holy lives? Have you not read about the righteous men of God in the Bible? Did not Jesus say to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect? Does not the Scriptures say to be ye holy as He is? Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord. Are you not living holy before the Lord? What does James 5:19-20 mean to you?
I do not live in habitual unrepentant sin and my life is not characterized by doing sinful things all the time.
I mean do you not believe God's people generally live holy lives? Have you not read about the righteous men of God in the Bible? Did not Jesus say to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect? Does not the Scriptures say to be ye holy as He is? Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord. Are you not living holy before the Lord? What does James 5:19-20 mean to you?
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"Works Salvationism" or "Striving to earn God's grace" is just as much of a heresy as Antinomianism or the Classic Version of OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) which teaches that a person can sin and still be saved. For how in the world can you tell the good guys from the bad guys when you watch a movie or turn on the news? Is it by an OSAS type belief that they have? No. It is in what they do. Granted, nobody is saved by works or in what they do (In and of themselves). A person is saved by repenting of their sins and in accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior. They are then born again spiritually and will have new desires (And they will not want to sin as a way of life anymore like when they were an unbeliever). If they do sin again (on occasion), they confess their sin to God so as to be cleansed of all unrighteousness and to be forgiven of that sin (See 1 John 1:9 again and tell me what it says word for word). Anyways, when a person is saved by accepting Jesus, they will then let God (And not the believer) do the good works within them. For God does the good work in the believer. Not the believer. When a believer messes up. They go to Christ (God) to get cleansed and they do not go out and do a Work tomorrow to offset that sin. That is why it is not salvation by works (or in one wrongfully "earning salvation"). A believer is merely abiding with Christ and or His good ways.
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Wherein the Bible does it ever say that holy men of God are sinners? That is what you are failing to understand. Whether one lives in a lot of sin or they are holding onto just one sin, it doesn't make any difference. Sin is sin; And it can cause separation between a person and God. For it only took one sin for Adam and Eve to be separated from God. What makes you think you are any different? Did Adam and Eve know a different God then the One believers know today?
Also, I want to say OSAS does not lead one to want to live holy before the Lord. It leads one to think they can live however they like because they are forgiven (no matter what). For when there is no consequences in anything, then there is no incentive to want to do what is good and right. In other words, if there was no consequences in eating bad foods on another planet, then people would eat bad foods more often there. It is only natural. People obey various laws because there are consequences attached to not obeying them.
Amen and the Lord said there is none good no not one as well.....and again he denies that God's use of chastisement is not a deterrent for believers to keep them in line.....totally rejects the view of God on chastisement and in essence is calling God's ways not sufficient
Originally Posted by Jason0047
No, that doesn't make any sense. People do evil all the time and live perfectly good lives. Believers are persecuted to the point of death. Chastisement is not really that big of a deterrent for believers who think they can get away with sin. For unbelievers suffer the same challenges in this life. So no. I am not buying it.
Yes, Eternal Security is also known as Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or Free Grace. Calvinists have their own version of Eternal Security and they call it the "Perseverance of the Saints" (or POTS).
I believe in the Biblical View of "Conditional Salvation" that teaches that a true believer who is saved will naturally bring forth a life full of holiness and fruitful works. Now, do not misunderstand me, works are not done to be saved, but they are merely the evidence that you have been saved when one repents and accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. If a believer sins, they need to immediately confess that sin and forsake it and continue to walk uprightly with their Lord. If a believer continues to abide in unrepentant sin that leads unto death (lying cheating murder etc.) then they are not saved.
So seeing I hold to the Biblical View of "Conditional Salvation", I am naturally against all forms of OSAS. However, that said, I believe that only those who hold to "Conditional Salvation" and "OSAS Lite" are true Christians (or my brothers). I believe all other forms of OSAS are teachings from the pits of Hell. Anyways, there are three major types of OSAS.
OSAS Type #1:
Classic OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) which says you can practice unrepentant sin that leads unto death (Such as lying, murder, hate, fornication, etc.) and yet you can somehow still be saved.
OSAS Type #2:
Mid Range OSAS says that you cannot practice sin otherwise you do not know God. However, abiding in an occasional or small unrepentant sin and then dying in that sin will not necessarily send you to Hell.
OSAS Type #3:
OSAS Lite teaches that you if you practice or continually abide in unrepentant sin then you were never saved to begin with. Meaning that a true believer is characterized by them living righteously. So falling away from the faith would be impossible (Despite the many verses that talk about such a thing).
I believe in the Biblical View of "Conditional Salvation" that teaches that a true believer who is saved will naturally bring forth a life full of holiness and fruitful works. Now, do not misunderstand me, works are not done to be saved, but they are merely the evidence that you have been saved when one repents and accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. If a believer sins, they need to immediately confess that sin and forsake it and continue to walk uprightly with their Lord. If a believer continues to abide in unrepentant sin that leads unto death (lying cheating murder etc.) then they are not saved.
So seeing I hold to the Biblical View of "Conditional Salvation", I am naturally against all forms of OSAS. However, that said, I believe that only those who hold to "Conditional Salvation" and "OSAS Lite" are true Christians (or my brothers). I believe all other forms of OSAS are teachings from the pits of Hell. Anyways, there are three major types of OSAS.
OSAS Type #1:
Classic OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) which says you can practice unrepentant sin that leads unto death (Such as lying, murder, hate, fornication, etc.) and yet you can somehow still be saved.
OSAS Type #2:
Mid Range OSAS says that you cannot practice sin otherwise you do not know God. However, abiding in an occasional or small unrepentant sin and then dying in that sin will not necessarily send you to Hell.
OSAS Type #3:
OSAS Lite teaches that you if you practice or continually abide in unrepentant sin then you were never saved to begin with. Meaning that a true believer is characterized by them living righteously. So falling away from the faith would be impossible (Despite the many verses that talk about such a thing).