Oh goody another OSAS thread!

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PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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again just posting verses you cannot understsnd im starting to fear for you.... i have yet to see any truth from you what so ever just out of context verses followed by 0 wisdom lies and rejection of scripture in context flip flopping all around to avoid every single your constant failure to provide 1 verse that points to a saved born again believer losing salvation i could prove you wrong for a year (like i have done for hours now... you just keep verse hopping never standing your ground or accepting reproof) and you would just go to other out of context verses then when i reprove you you just post another before i leave you ill plant one more seed of truth in hopes God will produce some growth in you "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."
^
this doesnt fit in your false doctrine
You surely do not expect unbelievers to be Always Saved (OSAS)!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You surely do not expect unbelievers to be Always Saved (OSAS)!
An unbeliever was never saved.

A person can believe jesus lived, he died in a cross, even have knowledge he rose from the dead, and as such, they have knowledge of the lord, it does not mean the KNOW JESUS on a personal level, like his children do, as james said, even domons believe (know) yet tremble

Knowledge is worthless apart from faith,
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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That is the fate of the apostate.

“It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” Hebrews 6:4
That's right. They TASTED the heavenly gift. They did NOT imbibe, or swallow and ingest the heavenly gift. I can swill and taste wine all day long, but if I don't ingest it and spit it out, I will NEVER get the effects of that wine. I will not get inebriated. The same as with the Holy Spirit. I can "taste" His goodness, but if I don't receive Him, I will NEVER be filled and sealed with His Presence and sanctifying work.

I know plenty of people that have the knowledge of Jesus Christ. They have been told about Him or read Scripture about Him themselves. They have the knowledge that He is the Son of God, but they either reject that knowledge, and don't believe in their heart who He is and what He has done, OR they believe who He is, but refuse to confess with their mouths, and instead reject Him that way. These people would be better off if they NEVER had the KNOWLEDGE of who Jesus is and what He has done to begin with!
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Typical of self righteous legalists. They want to puff up their works. And not Gods grace and mercy and forgiveness and honor and glory.

1. Gods people do good. and cannot live in sin, because they have been born of God

2. Those who disbelieve and are not Gods people, Do evil. (live in sin) because they have not believed.

Those verses speak of who Gods people are. and Who gods people are not. it does not say why they are gods people or why they are not.

but you have to remember,

King david did evil with Bathsheba and her husband, Yet he will be in heaven, So will abraham, and moses who also killed a man.

Take your fosuc off self. and put it on christ, You will never live up to Gods standard..


Can show me a scripture of anyone who was called self righteous legalist for obeying Jesus Christ?


Christ Jesus is our source of righteousness, and dwells within us, to empower and inspire us to practice righteousness.


Obeying Him as He leads us, is to practice righteousness, in which we do good and love our neighbor.


However there are those who still are lead to practice the works of the flesh, because they are taught the false doctrine of OSAS, and do not fear the Lord, and they live to gratify the desire of the flesh.


Paul warned us -


12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. Romans 6:12-13


  • do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it


He had just warned them in this same letter, from chapter 2, about obeying unrighteousness.


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds": 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
  • but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Either we as born again believers, who are empowered by the Spirit, will live according to the flesh by fulfilling the unrighteous, sinful desires of sin, or we will live according to the Spirit, and obey the righteous desires coming from Him.


Each Christian has a choice.



7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8



  • he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.




JPT
 
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John 3: 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life

John 6:
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Yes, I agree it's not God's will that any should perish, but all come to repentance.


Here are those who will come forth in the resurrection of life -

  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life


28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29





JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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That's right. They TASTED the heavenly gift. They did NOT imbibe, or swallow and ingest the heavenly gift. I can swill and taste wine all day long, but if I don't ingest it and spit it out, I will NEVER get the effects of that wine. I will not get inebriated. The same as with the Holy Spirit. I can "taste" His goodness, but if I don't receive Him, I will NEVER be filled and sealed with His Presence and sanctifying work.

I know plenty of people that have the knowledge of Jesus Christ. They have been told about Him or read Scripture about Him themselves. They have the knowledge that He is the Son of God, but they either reject that knowledge, and don't believe in their heart who He is and what He has done, OR they believe who He is, but refuse to confess with their mouths, and instead reject Him that way. These people would be better off if they NEVER had the KNOWLEDGE of who Jesus is and what He has done to begin with!

Taste here in the Greek, means to experience.



If you read a little further, the writer illustrates what he means, so we don't have to make up our own scenario.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6


  • if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance,


This scripture is referring to people who have indeed repented and received the Holy Spirit, and then later they have departed from Him to go back to Judaism, because of persecution from unbelieving Jews.


That is the context


He goes to illustrate for us the outcome of these people.

Read what the scripture so plainly says - the earth which drinks in the rain


No swilling here, drinking in the Holy Spirit!

  • whose end is to be burned.


7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
Hebrews 6:7-8



Same thing Jesus taught, about those who are in Him, who receive the liofe of His Spirit into them as they are joined to Him and one with Him, then later are removed and cast into the fire and burned.


Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:2

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6





JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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A born-again Christian would not continue to live in sin, an occasional stumble perhaps, but not a continued sinful lifestyle. All born-again Christians will have eternal life.

Thanks for your opinion.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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OK, How can I tell that I have the Holy Spirit and Not a demon guiding my comprehensions in the readings?

By the fruit you produce.


22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-25
 
S

Seedz

Guest
By the fruit you produce.


22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-25

So the days that I don't produce fruit and I read the bible that day then I am wrong on my interpretation?

It also mentions that we have crucified the passions of the flesh and its desires.

Does this mean that If i still have a desire I am not in Christ ?

Still not very clear to me.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Can show me a scripture of anyone who was called self righteous legalist for obeying Jesus Christ?


Christ Jesus is our source of righteousness, and dwells within us, to empower and inspire us to practice righteousness.


Obeying Him as He leads us, is to practice righteousness, in which we do good and love our neighbor.


However there are those who still are lead to practice the works of the flesh, because they are taught the false doctrine of OSAS, and do not fear the Lord, and they live to gratify the desire of the flesh.


Paul warned us -


12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. Romans 6:12-13


  • do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it


He had just warned them in this same letter, from chapter 2, about obeying unrighteousness.


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds": 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
  • but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Either we as born again believers, who are empowered by the Spirit, will live according to the flesh by fulfilling the unrighteous, sinful desires of sin, or we will live according to the Spirit, and obey the righteous desires coming from Him.


Each Christian has a choice.



7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8



  • he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.




JPT
Just because you say you follow christ does not mean you do,

People who reject the facts that christ will not keep his promises, are not following him, period
 
Oct 31, 2015
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So the days that I don't produce fruit and I read the bible that day then I am wrong on my interpretation?

It also mentions that we have crucified the passions of the flesh and its desires.

Does this mean that If i still have a desire I am not in Christ ?

Still not very clear to me.

To be honest, it looks like you trying to find an excuse to live your life gratifying the sinful passions of your flesh, but still be assured you will have eternal life, when you stand before Christ on the Day of Judgement, when He judges each of us according to our deeds.


If you "slip up", confess your sin to Him and ask Him to forgive you, and He will.


9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9




JPT
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Yes, I agree it's not God's will that any should perish, but all come to repentance.


Here are those who will come forth in the resurrection of life -

  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life


28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29





JPT
Again, your making it a prerequisite, not a Defenition of, or a byproduct or result of being born of god and given his spirit, and him growing you.

Your to focused on works. You may think God is ok with that, but he is not.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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To be honest, it looks like you trying to find an excuse to live your life gratifying the sinful passions of your flesh, but still be assured you will have eternal life, when you stand before Christ on the Day of Judgement, when He judges each of us according to our deeds.


If you "slip up", confess your sin to Him and ask Him to forgive you, and He will.


9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9




JPT
To be hnest, looks like your truing to find an excuse to live your life gratifying whatever sin issues you live,

All you have to do is say that magic words, (forgive me father i have sinned) and “poof”your sin is forgive and your free to sin again.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Again, your making it a prerequisite, not a Defenition of, or a byproduct or result of being born of god and given his spirit, and him growing you.

Your to focused on works. You may think God is ok with that, but he is not.

You will need to take it up with the One who said this.


  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life


28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29





JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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To be hnest, looks like your truing to find an excuse to live your life gratifying whatever sin issues you live,

All you have to do is say that magic words, (forgive me father i have sinned) and “poof”your sin is forgive and your free to sin again.

No one by-passes the judgement seat of Christ, as we all will be judged according to our deeds.


  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life



To be honest, it looks like you trying to find an excuse to live your life gratifying the sinful passions of your flesh, but still be assured you will have eternal life, when you stand before Christ on the Day of Judgement, when He judges each of us according to our deeds.


If you "slip up", confess your sin to Him and ask Him to forgive you, and He will.


9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9



JPT
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You will need to take it up with the One who said this.


  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life


28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29





JPT
No i do not have to take it up with anyone,

His children, those saved by him, will do good, there is no and if or buts about it, well in your view, god does not have much power to change his children. So in your view, his children may not do good.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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No one by-passes the judgement seat of Christ, as we all will be judged according to our deeds.


  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life



To be honest, it looks like you trying to find an excuse to live your life gratifying the sinful passions of your flesh, but still be assured you will have eternal life, when you stand before Christ on the Day of Judgement, when He judges each of us according to our deeds.


If you "slip up", confess your sin to Him and ask Him to forgive you, and He will.


9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9



JPT
Your right

Those who are his children will be tried and rewarded or suffer loss

Those who are not his children will be delivered to him for final judgment and will suffer eternal death rev 20

Now stop excusing your sin while judging others
 
Oct 31, 2015
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No i do not have to take it up with anyone,

You seem to have a discontent with His words.

No one by-passes the judgement seat of Christ, as we all will be judged according to our deeds.


  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life