Old Testament Basis for a Divine Messiah.

[Shwagga]

Hello all,

I would like to get all your input on this topic. Do you know of any specific texts in the Old Testament that say the Messiah will be divine? In other words, where in the Old Testament does it teach that God will come to earth in the form of a man and be the Messiah. Or perhaps, even a foundation for this belief that you believe is maybe hinted at in the Old Testament that is brought to light in the New Testament. (2 Timothy 1:10)

I will give my answer to this question after I get some feedback.

Blessings to you all,

!

 

[phil36]

Hi Shwagga,

Good topic, Its hard to say one individual verse but the whole put together as progressively revealed.

Although the first inference is with Eve, this does not give a full picture, however, the Abrahamic covenant starts to fill in the blanks.. Christ will be the 'seed' from abrahams seed there will be Kings, ultimately 'David' but this points to the davidic covenant which points to Christ (Messiah) the Ultimate King. (2 samuel 7:12_14) also this kingdom would be forever :

16 And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever.' (2 samuel 7:16)

these are just a couple, of the many. the kingship is central for this is looking forward to the only king over the people..who was God himself.

And of course we have another who would be like moses.. Moses was like God to Pharaoh.. mediator etc etc.

However do they point to the Messiah being God. Not until the time of the post exile did the Jews start to realise the importance of these Messianic promises.

anyhow, that was just quickly was writing while at work. will write more later ..if I get time shwagga.

 

[Abiding]

without looking it up my first thought was Abraham answering Isaacs question of where is the sacrifice..he was told ...opps have to look it up..

Geneisi 22:8 And Abraham said: My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering...John 1:29....The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Thats my favorite but your probavly aiming at Isaiah 53

 

[Grandpa]

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I'm reading Isaiah right now. One of my favorite books in the bible.

 

[In_Atom]

Thats my favorite but your probavly aiming at Isaiah 53

I'm wondering if even non-christians are allowed to have their say on Isaiah 53 ...

 

[GraceBeUntoYou]

Hello all,

I would like to get all your input on this topic. Do you know of any specific texts in the Old Testament that say the Messiah will be divine? In other words, where in the Old Testament does it teach that God will come to earth in the form of a man and be the Messiah. Or perhaps, even a foundation for this belief that you believe is maybe hinted at in the Old Testament that is brought to light in the New Testament. (2 Timothy 1:10)

I will give my answer to this question after I get some feedback.

Blessings to you all,

!

This is a great question, and one that should be addressed. B.B. Warfield put it at best when he said,

"The Old Testament may be likened to a chamber richly furnished but dimly lighted: the introduction of light brings into it nothing which was not in it before; but it brings out into clearer view much of what is in it but was only dimly or not at all perceived before. The mystery of the Trinity is not revealed in the Old Testament; but the mystery of the Trinity underlies the Old Testament revelation, and here and there almost comes into view. Thus the Old Testament revelation of God is not corrected by the fuller revelation which follows it, but is only perfected, extended and enlarged."
​

I find that the Old Testament positively does portray a Divine Messiah. And when I say "Divine" do not be mistaken, I am not speaking of a Christ that is some sort of "demi god," or "mighty one," or "secondary god," but as the Christ that is co-equal with the Father, sharing the exact same Divine attributes, and possessing the very same measure of Deity (John 1:1, Philippians 2:1-8, Colossians 2:9, Hebrews 1:3), sharing the one Divine Essence, and the one Divine Name -- YHWH (Matthew 18:19).

Very early on in the pages of Scripture, one can easily begin to see hints of plurality ascribed to God, particularly if one examines the Hebrew text -- His “faces” (Exodus 33:14), “presences” (Deuteronomy 4:37), and “persons” (Job 13:8). It is said of God that “they caused me to wander” (Genesis 20:13), “they appeared” (Genesis 35:7), “they drew nigh” (Deuteronomy 4:7), “they went” (2 Samuel 7:23), and “they judge” (Psalm 58:11), and that God is our “Creators” (Ecclesiastes 12:1), “Makers” and “Husbands” (Job 35:10; Psalm 149:2; Isaiah 54:5). And there are many other peculiarities aside from these few.

Genesis 18:1 describes three "men" that appear before Abraham, two of which are identified as angels (Genesis 19:1), and one is identified as the Holy One, YHWH (Genesis 18:1, 13, 17, 20, 23, 26). And so the two angels are sent down to Sodom (v. 16), and not soon after conversing with Abraham, YHWH went down from this place where He had met with Abraham, towards Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18:21). And it is this One who it is written of, "Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven" (Genesis 19:24). Note that there are two that are identified as YHWH, one whom is clearly walking the earth, speaking to Abraham, eating and drinking, and then there is another in the heavens. This can not and is not an example of YHWH addressing Himself in the third person, because for one, this is not YHWH speaking, it's Moses telling us of the account of God acting out His wrath on Sodom and Gomorrah, and that from another. What's even more peculiar with Genesis 19:24 kept in mind,

“I sent a plague among you after the manner of Egypt; I slew your young men by the sword along with your captured horses, and I made the stench of your camp rise up in your nostrils; Yet you have not returned to Me,” declares the LORD. I overthrew you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and you were like a firebrand snatched from a blaze; Yet you have not returned to Me,” declares the LORD." (Amos 4:10-11)

"'Therefore the desert creatures will live there along with the jackals; The ostriches also will live in it, and it will never again be inhabited or dwelt in from generation to generation. As when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah with its neighbors,' declares the LORD, 'No man will live there, nor will any son of man reside in it.'" (Jeremiah 50:39-40)

"Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them, who will not value silver or take pleasure in gold. And their bows will mow down the young men, they will not even have compassion on the fruit of the womb, nor will their eye pity children. And Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans’ pride, will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah." (Isaiah 13:17-19)
​

Also refer to Hosea 1:6-7,

"Then she conceived again and gave birth to a daughter. And the LORD said to him, 'Name her Lo-ruhamah, for I will no longer have compassion on the house of Israel, that I would ever forgive them. But I will have compassion on the house of Judah and deliver them by the LORD their God, and will not deliver them by bow, sword, battle, horses or horsemen.”
​

Far from opposing the idea of uniplurality in the Godhead, the Sh'ma is actually quite supportive of this concept. By a surface-level examination of Deuteronomy 6:4 in our English translations, one may not come to see this concept in its fruition. There are multiple ways the author could have written the Sh'ma -- "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" The author could have used "yachid" ("one") which would refer to a strict solitary oneness, or he could have used "echad," which only means "one," but can and does carry with it, in many instances, the nuance of unity. Examples of "echad," but not limited to, include:

Genesis 1:5 - Evening and morning, two parts to "one day."
Genesis 2:24 - Man and wife unified as "one flesh."
Genesis 11:6 - Multitude unified as "one people," with "one tongue."
Genesis 34:16 - Multitude unified as "one people."
Genesis 34:22 - Multitude unified as "one people."
2 Chronicles 30:12 - People of Judah given "one heart."
Numbers 13:23 - Many grapes, "one cluster."
Jeremiah 32:39 - People of God given "one heart."
Ezekiel 37:17 - Two sticks are as "one."
Ezekiel 37:22 - Two nations united together as "one."
Ezra 2:64 - Multitudes united as "one man," or "one assembly."
Malachi 2:15 - Man and wife are as "one."
Zephaniah 3:9 - Multitude serving YHWH with "one shoulder," "one purpose," or "one consent."
1 Samuel 11:7 - Fear of YHWH overcame the multitude, and are as "one man."
Exodus 24:3 - Multitude spoke with "one voice."
Exodus 26:6, 11 - Fifty gold glasps together as "one."
Exodus 36:13 - Fifty gold flasps together as "one."
​

The fact is, "yachid" never carries with it the connotation of unity whatsoever, and the term that is often (though not always) used to express unity, is used in Deuteronomy 6:4. I argue that in order to prove that this is stating that God is only One in Person, then one would have to prove not that "echad" can also refer to a solitary oneness, but that "yachid" can also refer to unity. One may ask why, and to that, I reason that if "yachid" can't be proven to refer to some kind of unity, then "echad" would have been the only word available to express a oneness of unity, and was used for a very specific purpose.

The authors, Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai and his son Rabbi Eliezar, of The Zohar, a first century commentary on the Torah, saw something that is also quite intersting in regards to Deuteronomy 6:4,

"Hear, O Israel, Adonai Eloheinu Adonai is one. These three are one. How can the three Names be one? Only through the perception of faith; in the vision of the Holy Spirit, in the beholding of the hidden eye alone... . So it is with the mystery of the threefold Divine manifestations designated by Adonai Eloheinu Adonai—three modes which yet form one unity." (Zohar II:43b. vol. 3, p. 134 in the Soncino Press Edition)
​

And if this is not convincing, let us refer to Zechariah 2:8-11,

"For thus says the LORD of hosts, 'After glory He has sent Me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches you, touches the apple of His eye. For behold, I will wave My hand over them so that they will be plunder for their slaves. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me. Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,' declares the LORD. 'Many nations will join themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you.'"
​

There's two different objections that I've personally encountered to this text, and both are easily refuted. The first objection points to verse 11, and just totally rips it out of its proceeding context, and says that this is Zechariah that says, "Many nations will join themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you." At first the objection seems like it could potentially be valid one, for Zechariah was certainly sent by God; however, there's just one small problem... two verses earlier it was the LORD that was speaking, and said things like, "He has sent Me," "then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me," "behold I am coming and I will dwell in your midst." Given vv. 8-10, where YHWH is speaking, it's contextual suicide to assume Zechariah is speaking in v. 11.

The second objection says that this is a messenger speaking on behalf of YHWH. If this view is correct then we have YHWH speaking indirectly, by or through a messenger, which would give us the idea of agency -- the messenger relaying some message on behalf of YHWH. However, what I think often times gets over looked, is that it matters not one way or the other if YHWH is speaking directly or indirectly. If this is a messenger, then obviously the messenger is relaying a direct message from YHWH to a specific group, for that is the job of a messenger, to relay the message. Directly or indirectly spoken, these are the words of YHWH that are spoken -- "After glory He has sent Me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches you, touches the apple of His eye. For behold, I will wave My hand over them so that they will be plunder for their slaves. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me. Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and I will dwell in your midst."