On that Jesus is the Father

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

I can feel the love just emanating from you, Phil112!

Anyway, it's not about me...it's about the truth...Jesus said,

[Mat 7:13-14 KJV] 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Since I am one of the few, maybe I just realize that others aren't going to be able to find it that easily, so I'm offering it to all of you on a silver platter...Maybe I shouldn't do this, since it seems to be so rejected...but then again, God said to Ezekiel,

[Eze 3:27 KJV] 27 But when I speak with thee, I will open thy mouth, and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; He that heareth, let him hear; and he that forbeareth, let him forbear: for they [are] a rebellious house.

And if Israel can be a rebellious house, it follows that the Gentiles also can be a rebellious house as we are nearing the end of the times of the Gentiles if that point has not already been reached...

[Rom 11:17-22 KJV] 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

But the point being that everyone has a choice either to hear or forbear the words that God has given to me through His word.

notuptome · Mar 5, 2014

Angela53510 said:

Are you kidding? That's the best thing he has posted lately.

Probably most are not truly saved to start with. I suggest being patient and declaring the gospel at every opportunity. Trust the Lord as His word never returns to Him void but accomplishes that to which He has purposed it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

oldhermit · Mar 5, 2014

notuptome said:

I would not wast any further time with him. He is not going to listen to anything anyone has to say.

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

oldhermit said:

I am blessed, although I feel really bad for anyone who does what he says.

[Luk 6:22 KJV] 22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

And oldhermit, did I or did I not tell you that I was still willing to listen to what you had to say to me? And was it not you who said to me, "Don't email me anymore?"

Who is the one who is not willing to listen?

Really...

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

And did I not listen to two of your lessons after you told me that I didn't even understand the basics of reality? After such a condescending remark, you should be surprised that I listened to you at all...

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

And yes, the word of God does say to me:

[1Jo 2:20, 27 KJV] 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. ... 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

and,

[Act 2:38 KJV] 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Since I have fulfilled the condition to the promise, it follows that I have received the promise. And the Holy Ghost is the anointing and the unction.

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

It was only after your lessons started contradicting the word that I told you maybe I shouldn't waste any more of your time since I was going to listen to the word over you...

[Psa 118:8-9 KJV] 8 [It is] better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. 9 [It is] better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

oldhermit · Mar 5, 2014

Yes, you are willing to read what someone else posts but, you are not will to LISTEN to what they are trying to tell you. All you do is argue. Your response to the first two lessons was not that of a person attempting to understand what was said. Your response was "I once believed as you do...until God opened my eyes to the truth." I have no time for this kind of nonsense. I am here to study with people who have genuine questions and a sincere desire to learn beyond where they are. All you did was waste my time.

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

I listened to you in the first place because of your name, oldhermit. Because you seemed to have age and thus experience and wisdom. But the word also says,

[Job 32:6-10 KJV] 6 And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said, I [am] young, and ye [are] very old; wherefore I was afraid, and durst not shew you mine opinion. 7 I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom. 8 But [there is] a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. 9 Great men are not [always] wise: neither do the aged understand judgment. 10 Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion.

[1Ti 4:12 KJV] 12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

Though I am not as young as I used to be.

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

oldhermit said:

I understood what was said...especially the first thing, which was very condescending. I'm going to post on here the entire conversation for everyone's benefit...so that they can be the judges.

oldhermit · Mar 5, 2014

Tongue-talker said:

I have already posted those things in open forum but if that makes you happy go for it.

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

oldhermit said:

I understood what was said...especially the first thing, which was very condescending. I'm going to post on here the entire conversation for everyone's benefit...so that they can be the judges.

Maybe just the last of it...

Originally Posted by Tongue-talker

Originally Posted by oldhermit

Originally Posted by Tongue-talker
I'm listening. What's your next point?

INCOMMENSURABLES

Things that are incommensurable cannot be measured on the same plain or compared with the same standard of measurement. Any standard of comparison from within our own field of existence will never measure up to the reality of God. Although the heavens declare the glory of God as the Psalmist says, we can never truly understand God through anything learned within the framework of human experience. Human reason that is divorced from revelationcan add nothing of value to the revealed text and can tell us nothing about God. Through scripture, God allows us to see, in a limited fashion, some things about his nature, his power, his personality, his presence, his wisdom and his involvement in human affairs. Any concept of God that can be regarded as uncompromised must come from God’s own revelation about Himself. This he has chosen to effect through the conduit of language.

THE NATURE OF GOD AND THE INCOMPATIBILITY OF HUMAN INTELLIGENCE

The first thing that we must realize about the nature of God is that we can never sufficiently understand the nature of God. Perhaps the most sobering question which confronts us is not how do we understand the nature of God, but how do we approach the Word of God to understand what God has revealed of himself? For the word of God to have its proper place in connection with the mind of man, it must be given its agential position. We must take everything that God has revealed about himself in scripture and allow the text to superimpose upon our minds a revealed image of his nature. Without the influence of scripture, any concept that one may have of God will always be the sole product of the individual. When one removes one’s self from the inspired text all that remains to fall back on is the uninspired world of human intelligence.

If we are to enter this study in earnest, we must first suspend for the moment everything we feel that we already know about God. Let us not be guilty of bringing anything of our own into this study. Human intelligence, being what it is, has the tendency to insist that scripture agree with long held, deeply rooted, and cherished concepts of God. We must be willing to set aside experiential logic and begin with the word of God allowing scripture to influence and entrain the mind. This means that we may need to change the way we think, the way we speak, the way we read scripture and certainly the way we understand reality. This may challenge many of our ideas about God, which may prove to be very uncomfortable. Nevertheless, the word of God must be allowed to overturn all unrevealed ideologies about the nature of God. Unrevealed ideologies are inherently the product of socialization. As such, it will prove a great hindrance to the development of a biblically constructed theology.

The Limited Nature of Revelation

When I speak of revelation, I am speaking of the Bible as the exclusive written representation of the mind of God given to us by the Almighty about himself. What I mean by limited is that God has not revealed everything to us about himself, Deuteronomy 29:29 and 1Corintheans 2:9-10. What he has revealed linguistically is found only within the Bible. Revelation is limited because of the limited capacity of the human mind to comprehend things it cannot envision and because of the inability of human language to explain things of the non-natural world. Revelation about God is very often anthropomorphic. This is because man can only understand that with which he has an experiential frame of reference. In order for God to reveal himself in scripture, he uses human language to present himself to us in terms with which we are all familiar and to which each of uscan relate based on our own individual experiences. For example, in his relationship to man God speaks of himself as father, friend, shepherd, master, judge, king, and husband. He speaks of such physical traits as hair, wings, thigh, hand, arm, heart, and bosom. He speaks of character traits such as love, knowledge, wisdom, hate, will, anger, mercy, tenderness, and compassion. We are all familiar with these terms and can relate to them based on our own experiences, but only to a limited degree. We can only understand these terms to the degree that each of us experiences them at the personal level. This means that each of us will have developed different levels of understanding about each of these concepts. Regardless of one’s level of understanding of these terms, we can never fully understand them to the degree that they relate to God.

The Struggle of Human Intelligence

In an effort to conceptualize God, man has posed such questions as, where did God come from, how big is God, how long is eternity, or can God create a rock so big that he cannot lift it? These and other such questions attempt to understand God within the confines of time and space.Since man draws upon comparisons to understand things in this world, he quite naturally tries to understand God in the same way. In the absence of revelation, he can do nothing else. Man feels that he must be able to qualify and quantifyeverything in order to understand and categorize it. The mind of the skeptic may find it difficult to accept the reality of something that cannot be proven empirically. In the struggle of the human mind to explain the nature of God, man has insisted upon measuring God through the process of natural comparisons. Since God stands outside of man’s ability to rationalize, it is impossible to conceptualize God in terms of time and space. Since we have nothing in our experience with which to compare God or eternity, these questions can add nothing to our understanding of God. God cannot be confined to time or space nor defined by any human metric. These are parameters of strictly linear measurements and can tell us nothing of theunseen world.

Maybe I shouldn't waste any more of your time...

The following scriptures contradict your words, consider them carefully please. And if after that you want to continue, I am willing.

[Hbr 1:3 KJV] 3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

[Jhn 1:18 KJV] 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

These say that the Father can be known through the Son.

[1Cr 2:10, 16 KJV] 10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. ... 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

These say that if we have the Spirit we can know the deepest aspects of who God is as a person, because we have the mind of Christ.

[1Jo 2:20, 27 KJV] 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. ... 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

These say that if we have an unction and anointing from the Holy One, we know all things. Therefore we don't need anyone to teach us.

But you can still continue to try to teach me if you want. I am not closed-minded if what you say lines up with the word.

oldhermit:
I don't think this is worth any more of my time.

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

Originally Posted by Tongue-talker

Originally Posted by oldhermit

Originally Posted by Tongue-talker

Originally Posted byoldhermit

Originally Posted byTongue-talker
oldhermit, I have prayed for and am praying for you; and will continue to pray for you as the Spirit leads.

What I suggest you pray for is some understanding. You have a zeal, but not according to knowledge.

I once believed as you do.

You have no earthly idea what I believe because you are not willing to listen long enough to learn anything.

That's only partially true. if you were to actually say something, I would be all ears.

Please do not email me any more.

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

Originally Posted by oldhermit

Originally Posted by Tongue-talker
oldhermit, I have prayed for and am praying for you; and will continue to pray for you as the Spirit leads.

What I suggest you pray for is some understanding. You have a zeal, but not according to knowledge.

[Rom 9:30-33 KJV] 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

[Rom 10:1-4 KJV] 1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

In context, a zeal without knowledge has to do with relying on the law to save you; to believe that you are saved through the keeping of the law; and to try to preach the law alone as though keeping it is the righteousness that can save you.

The law is the Old Testament, specifically the Pentateuch. Therefore, what I preach on baptism has nothing to do with justification by law, as it is a New Testament requirement.

I have not yet preached anything on grace except what I wrote in the thread, 1 John 3:4-9. And that was understood to be too gracey by some!

I am all about preaching that Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:4-7, Romans 4:4-8, and Romans 11:6 are very, very important principles. It is you who do not know what I believe.

[Eph 2:8-9 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[Tts 3:4-7 KJV] 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

[Rom 4:4-8 KJV] 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

[Rom 11:6 KJV] 6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

oldhermit said:

[1Th 2:2 KJV] 2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.

#1, you have shamefully entreated me. i.e. "you don't even understand the basics of reality, let me teach you what they are."

#2 it is not necessarily arguing to show scripture that contradicts what you have said. Even if it is, contention is not necessarily condemned by the Bible, as shown above and by this:

[Jud 1:3 KJV] 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

oldhermit said:

My response, I once believed as you do...until God opened my eyes to the truth, was after you basically had given up on me and I told you I would be praying for you; even though I had told you I was still willing to listen to what you had to say. I am always open to teaching though I do not need to be taught according to 1 John 2:27; teaching is a spiritual gift after all and what it is really saying is that if someone teaches something contradictory to what you know, you don't have to blindly follow what they are saying; Now you told me to empty myself of all the Bible knowledge and listen to your teaching; but I know what I know and I can't change that, even if you do want to reprogram me.

[1Jo 2:20, 27 KJV] 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. ... 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Tongue-talker · Mar 5, 2014

Also,

[Gal 6:6 KJV] 6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

This verse says that the student should always give the teacher feedback, but you told me that you weren't really interested in feedback!

Stephen63 · Mar 5, 2014

Modelist theology teaches a different Jesus....... therefore it is heresy. There are 3 distinctly different persons of the Godhead that are constantly existant......not manifesting themselves one at a time.

Stephen63 · Mar 5, 2014

A well-deserved ban indeed.

On that Jesus is the Father

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