Once Saved Always Saved is True.

[Evmur]

I can understand what he meant and agree! The bad news is that you are a sinner without any hope in this world, the good news is that the Son of God loves you and made a way for you in the wilderness.

People know they are sinners and actually it is the Holy Spirit's job to convict folks. It really is good to study Paul's sermon on Mars Hill to see what he preached. Peter's charge to his Jewish hearers was that they had crucified their Lord, but this did not apply to the Gentiles.

There is quite a difference between what Paul shared with mature christians in his letters to what he preached in Acts.

What I am saying is that the abundant life message is just as powerful as hell fire and damnation. I think it is a better gospel so long as repentance at the cross is peached.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The cross is persecution ... we all have some measure of it. The more we love the Lord the more we will have of it. So who are bearing the brunt today?

Not many, especially in the America’s (well maybe South America). But brothers and sisters in China and in the Middle East bare their cross daily. Many die because of it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What I am saying is that the abundant life message is just as powerful as hell fire and damnation. I think it is a better gospel so long as repentance at the cross is peached.

We have to be careful though. It depends on what you mean by abundant. God never promised health and wealth.

but he did promise an abundant life even in times of great distress, persecution, sickness and having a lack of abundance.

 

[Evmur]

We have to be careful though. It depends on what you mean by abundant. God never promised health and wealth.

but he did promise an abundant life even in times of great distress, persecution, sickness and having a lack of abundance.

"Beloved I desire above all things that thou mayest be in health and prosper even as thy soul propereth"

... if Paul had written that everyone would have shouted "tis the very word of God" ... but what did John know

 

[Charlie24]

People know they are sinners and actually it is the Holy Spirit's job to convict folks. It really is good to study Paul's sermon on Mars Hill to see what he preached. Peter's charge to his Jewish hearers was that they had crucified their Lord, but this did not apply to the Gentiles.

There is quite a difference between what Paul shared with mature christians in his letters to what he preached in Acts.

What I am saying is that the abundant life message is just as powerful as hell fire and damnation. I think it is a better gospel so long as repentance at the cross is peached.

But that's the problem, the abundant life preachers don't preach the Gospel.

In fact, Joel Osteen is recorded on the Larry King show saying we don't mention the Cross, the Blood, we don't want to offend anyone.

It's not just him, it's everyone of them! The abundant life so-called Gospel is contrary to the Cross of Christ in the way it is preached and purposed today!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Beloved I desire above all things that thou mayest be in health and prosper even as thy soul propereth"

... if Paul had written that everyone would have shouted "tis the very word of God" ... but what did John know

It says he desires. I am sure John did desire it

I desire it also for all of my brothers and sisters

But it is not promised..And if we look at the word. and the people around us. God does nto heal every sickness, He does nto make everyone rich. Many of our bothers and sisters suffer years of pain and suffering due to cancer or some other disease.

We are promised perfect bodies. That is what we look forward to. it is not promised here on earth. Or we would never get sick, never die. And we would all be rich.

 

[Evmur]

It says he desires. I am sure John did desire it

I desire it also for all of my brothers and sisters

But it is not promised..And if we look at the word. and the people around us. God does nto heal every sickness, He does nto make everyone rich. Many of our bothers and sisters suffer years of pain and suffering due to cancer or some other disease.

We are promised perfect bodies. That is what we look forward to. it is not promised here on earth. Or we would never get sick, never die. And we would all be rich.

We do not form our doctrines by what we see around us. But all this is to hijack the thread.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We do not form our doctrines by what we see around us. But all this is to hijack the thread.

No, But what we see around us should at least come close to doctrine. Especially with this issue.

Did not mean to hijack,

Back to the thread we can discuss this in another thread.

 

[Evmur]

No, But what we see around us should at least come close to doctrine. Especially with this issue.

Did not mean to hijack,

Back to the thread we can discuss this in another thread.

It was me who was hi jacking.

If you were to have walked into a medieval church you would have seen little there that related to gospel doctrine. Something needed to break, change.

 

[montana123]

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith and faith works by love.

No love then no faith for then your faith is void.

Paul said that he could have all faith so as to remove mountains but if he did not have charity he is nothing.

And the love of money is the root of all evil because it neglects the poor and needy and those that have went by their wants have erred from the faith which having food and clothing be content.

James said if people do not care about the needs of people then their faith is dead.

John said if they do not care about the needs of people then the love of God does not dwell in them so do not love in word, neither in tongue, but love is truth and in deed, charity, love in action.

James said a person is justified by works, and not faith alone, which are works of love to love people by helping them with their needs whatever that may be.

But there is millions of people who say faith alone and then neglect works of love by going by their wants believing God is blessing them that way which Paul said if they preach that godliness is gain monetary then withdraw yourselves from them.

How are they saved if they do not have love of people by caring about their own wants.

Love is greater than faith so no love no faith and love only goes by their needs and helps other people with their needs whatever that may be.

Also sarcasm, belittling of other people, arrogance, and the such is not love which would mean their faith would not apply.

There are many people that neglect love and live in that condition and believe they are saved by faith.

But how are they saved if they neglect love and they do mean it when they say they have faith in Christ and confess Christ.

Some people do not understand the proper meaning of faith after they are saved for they have the responsibility to have actions to keep that faith intact in their life.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

Why would there be a warning if you continue in the faith and be not moved away from it for how would it be possible to move away from the faith you have unless it is possible to move away to those not heeding the truth.

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.

They say we are not saved by works but faith is a work.

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck.

1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

There is a warning to continue in faith which means some people could depart from the true meaning of faith.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

How did these people depart from the faith and a person cannot say they did not have faith for they must of had faith to depart from it.

Which this is concerning the new age movement that interprets the Bible according to the occult and evolution which they believe they are still evolving to be spiritual which the antichrist will be of the new age movement.

The new age movement will deceive the world and how did these people depart from the faith the truth and follow them if a person cannot fall after they have faith in Jesus.

Which the Bible says that those that have fell away cannot be saved again which means that if a person departs from the truth that Jesus is Lord and Savior and then returns to believing Jesus is Lord and Savior they cannot be saved again for God will not allow them to go through the process of being saved again for they will put Jesus to an open shame.

1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Another warning that a person can deny the faith which is not continuing in the faith and there would not be a warning unless it were possible that someone could deny the faith.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

These people had faith and were saved without a doubt for they escaped the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

But they returned to doing things of the world like a sow that is clean goes back to wallowing in the mud.

It would had been better for them to not have known the way of righteousness and after knowing it to turn away form the truth given to them.

These people had faith and were saved, escaped the pollutions of the world, and knew the way of righteousness, but turned away from it.

How did they lose salvation if they had faith and we are saved by faith alone and they did lose salvation for the Bible said it would of been better if they did not know the way of righteousness than to know it and depart from it.

For a person that has been saved and departs from the truth will have it worse than a person that never knew the truth for those that know to do right and do not do it will be beat with many stripes but those that did not know the truth will be beat with few stripes for they are still a sinner and did not turn from that.

So obviously faith is something we have to maintain by our actions, works, and continue in, and some people can fall away from the faith if their make the decision to do so.

And they cannot say they were not saved to begin with, but nay, they were saved by faith but departed from that faith.

If all it takes is to have faith to be saved and then you are sealed how did they fall away.

And they cannot say that their faith was wavering when they first confessed Christ for they escaped the world and knew the way of righteousness so they were right with God at the time until they fell away.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith and faith works by love.

No love then no faith for then your faith is void.

Paul said that he could have all faith so as to remove mountains but if he did not have charity he is nothing.

And the love of money is the root of all evil because it neglects the poor and needy and those that have went by their wants have erred from the faith which having food and clothing be content.

James said if people do not care about the needs of people then their faith is dead.

John said if they do not care about the needs of people then the love of God does not dwell in them so do not love in word, neither in tongue, but love is truth and in deed, charity, love in action.

James said a person is justified by works, and not faith alone, which are works of love to love people by helping them with their needs whatever that may be.

But there is millions of people who say faith alone and then neglect works of love by going by their wants believing God is blessing them that way which Paul said if they preach that godliness is gain monetary then withdraw yourselves from them.

How are they saved if they do not have love of people by caring about their own wants.

Love is greater than faith so no love no faith and love only goes by their needs and helps other people with their needs whatever that may be.

Also sarcasm, belittling of other people, arrogance, and the such is not love which would mean their faith would not apply.

There are many people that neglect love and live in that condition and believe they are saved by faith.

But how are they saved if they neglect love and they do mean it when they say they have faith in Christ and confess Christ.

Some people do not understand the proper meaning of faith after they are saved for they have the responsibility to have actions to keep that faith intact in their life.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

Why would there be a warning if you continue in the faith and be not moved away from it for how would it be possible to move away from the faith you have unless it is possible to move away to those not heeding the truth.

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.

They say we are not saved by works but faith is a work.

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck.

1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

There is a warning to continue in faith which means some people could depart from the true meaning of faith.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

How did these people depart from the faith and a person cannot say they did not have faith for they must of had faith to depart from it.

Which this is concerning the new age movement that interprets the Bible according to the occult and evolution which they believe they are still evolving to be spiritual which the antichrist will be of the new age movement.

The new age movement will deceive the world and how did these people depart from the faith the truth and follow them if a person cannot fall after they have faith in Jesus.

Which the Bible says that those that have fell away cannot be saved again which means that if a person departs from the truth that Jesus is Lord and Savior and then returns to believing Jesus is Lord and Savior they cannot be saved again for God will not allow them to go through the process of being saved again for they will put Jesus to an open shame.

1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Another warning that a person can deny the faith which is not continuing in the faith and there would not be a warning unless it were possible that someone could deny the faith.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

These people had faith and were saved without a doubt for they escaped the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

But they returned to doing things of the world like a sow that is clean goes back to wallowing in the mud.

It would had been better for them to not have known the way of righteousness and after knowing it to turn away form the truth given to them.

These people had faith and were saved, escaped the pollutions of the world, and knew the way of righteousness, but turned away from it.

How did they lose salvation if they had faith and we are saved by faith alone and they did lose salvation for the Bible said it would of been better if they did not know the way of righteousness than to know it and depart from it.

For a person that has been saved and departs from the truth will have it worse than a person that never knew the truth for those that know to do right and do not do it will be beat with many stripes but those that did not know the truth will be beat with few stripes for they are still a sinner and did not turn from that.

So obviously faith is something we have to maintain by our actions, works, and continue in, and some people can fall away from the faith if their make the decision to do so.

And they cannot say they were not saved to begin with, but nay, they were saved by faith but departed from that faith.

If all it takes is to have faith to be saved and then you are sealed how did they fall away.

And they cannot say that their faith was wavering when they first confessed Christ for they escaped the world and knew the way of righteousness so they were right with God at the time until they fell away.

New flash

90 % of the people who say faith alone, say faith is never alone

The few that say that faith is all is needed and we can go live our lives however we want, are discussed in james and also in Jude. Where they are said to turn the grace of God to licentiousness

While a licentious gospel is a false gospel based on pride. A legalistic gospel. That claims we are saved in the spirit but must perfect that salvation int he flesh (works) is just as dangerous and just as damning to those who entrust their eternity to it.

 

[Evmur]

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith and faith works by love.

No love then no faith for then your faith is void.

Paul said that he could have all faith so as to remove mountains but if he did not have charity he is nothing.

And the love of money is the root of all evil because it neglects the poor and needy and those that have went by their wants have erred from the faith which having food and clothing be content.

James said if people do not care about the needs of people then their faith is dead.

John said if they do not care about the needs of people then the love of God does not dwell in them so do not love in word, neither in tongue, but love is truth and in deed, charity, love in action.

James said a person is justified by works, and not faith alone, which are works of love to love people by helping them with their needs whatever that may be.

But there is millions of people who say faith alone and then neglect works of love by going by their wants believing God is blessing them that way which Paul said if they preach that godliness is gain monetary then withdraw yourselves from them.

How are they saved if they do not have love of people by caring about their own wants.

Love is greater than faith so no love no faith and love only goes by their needs and helps other people with their needs whatever that may be.

Also sarcasm, belittling of other people, arrogance, and the such is not love which would mean their faith would not apply.

There are many people that neglect love and live in that condition and believe they are saved by faith.

But how are they saved if they neglect love and they do mean it when they say they have faith in Christ and confess Christ.

Some people do not understand the proper meaning of faith after they are saved for they have the responsibility to have actions to keep that faith intact in their life.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

Why would there be a warning if you continue in the faith and be not moved away from it for how would it be possible to move away from the faith you have unless it is possible to move away to those not heeding the truth.

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.

They say we are not saved by works but faith is a work.

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck.

1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

There is a warning to continue in faith which means some people could depart from the true meaning of faith.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

How did these people depart from the faith and a person cannot say they did not have faith for they must of had faith to depart from it.

Which this is concerning the new age movement that interprets the Bible according to the occult and evolution which they believe they are still evolving to be spiritual which the antichrist will be of the new age movement.

The new age movement will deceive the world and how did these people depart from the faith the truth and follow them if a person cannot fall after they have faith in Jesus.

Which the Bible says that those that have fell away cannot be saved again which means that if a person departs from the truth that Jesus is Lord and Savior and then returns to believing Jesus is Lord and Savior they cannot be saved again for God will not allow them to go through the process of being saved again for they will put Jesus to an open shame.

1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Another warning that a person can deny the faith which is not continuing in the faith and there would not be a warning unless it were possible that someone could deny the faith.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

These people had faith and were saved without a doubt for they escaped the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

But they returned to doing things of the world like a sow that is clean goes back to wallowing in the mud.

It would had been better for them to not have known the way of righteousness and after knowing it to turn away form the truth given to them.

These people had faith and were saved, escaped the pollutions of the world, and knew the way of righteousness, but turned away from it.

How did they lose salvation if they had faith and we are saved by faith alone and they did lose salvation for the Bible said it would of been better if they did not know the way of righteousness than to know it and depart from it.

For a person that has been saved and departs from the truth will have it worse than a person that never knew the truth for those that know to do right and do not do it will be beat with many stripes but those that did not know the truth will be beat with few stripes for they are still a sinner and did not turn from that.

So obviously faith is something we have to maintain by our actions, works, and continue in, and some people can fall away from the faith if their make the decision to do so.

And they cannot say they were not saved to begin with, but nay, they were saved by faith but departed from that faith.

If all it takes is to have faith to be saved and then you are sealed how did they fall away.

And they cannot say that their faith was wavering when they first confessed Christ for they escaped the world and knew the way of righteousness so they were right with God at the time until they fell away.

You say we must not move away from the faith whereby we are saved ... so were you saved by your works of love or by believing that Christ died for you?

 

[Runningman]

In my experience, we are saved by grace through faith. God works with individuals in different ways, to tell them how to avoid sin and encourages them when they are doing good.

If the wages of 1 sin is death then that makes any sort of works-based salvation impossible. After your first sin, all bets are off.

Therefore, if salvation is not by grace through faith then what other criteria could it logically be?

It's works based salvation that creates the mindset of "Eat and drink today for tomorrow we die" because people eventually realize their inability to redeem themselves through self-effort. Even if they try to redeem themselves, a fresh reminder of their sin punishable by death destroys all illusions of self-righteousness. All others throw themselves upon the mercy and love of God and humbly accept His gift of salvation.

 

[montana123]

You say we must not move away from the faith whereby we are saved ... so were you saved by your works of love or by believing that Christ died for you?

I was saved by having faith in Christ without works.

I could of not had works of love to save me when I confessed Christ for I would fall short of that love not having received the Spirit until after I confessed Christ.

A lot people do not understand when Paul is speaking according to the flesh or the Spirit.

We are saved by faith alone, and not by works, when we first confess Christ for that is all we can do for we are in the flesh but God drew us to the Son because of our heart condition.

But when we receive the Spirit then we have to have works of love by the Spirit to have faith active in our lives.

Of course if we sin it can be forgiven but we must not allow ourselves to live in sin but living in sin can be forgiven too.

But when we leave this earth we better make sure that we want no sin in our lives and mean it.

If we live in sin we have no salvation.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

This says it all concerning a person that has faith and are saved but lost salvation but how did they lose salvation.

They escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of Jesus and knew the way of righteousness so they were saved.

And it had been better if they had not know the way of righteousness than to depart from so they were saved but fell from the truth.

This cannot be denied.

So I want to know if they had faith and were saved how did they fall away if it is faith alone.

So obviously there is more to it than faith alone and that is having charity, love in action, works of love.

Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

I was saved by having faith in Jesus and not by works.

But now that I am saved I have to allow the Spirit to lead me to do works of love to remain saved for love is greater than faith and faith works by love and love is the fulfilling of the law.

But many people that were saved neglected that love which the Bible testifies that it can happen if they do not do what is right and love properly.

 

[Laura798]

Eternal life is eternal life

God said we have it Not might have it

If salvation can be lost. It must be earned

If it can be earned. It is not of Grace

ET,

You are coming at this in the wrong way legalism vs Jesus clear call for us to OBEY out of our LOVE for Him.

"By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome, because everyone born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith.…"--1st John 5:2-4

Once Saved Always Saved has its roots in John Calvin who taught predestination. In the doctrine of predestination Calvin taught that even faith and belief were by God's divine act----man had no part in it. he changed the meaning of'man dead in trespasses in sins' and said it meant man was a 'dead man' and therefore didn't have the power to respond at all. He called even repenting and believing 'works'. Repenting and believing are no more a work than walking or breathing. The works scripture speaks of are the 'works of the law' However, we see over and over scripture telling man to choose, to turn, to repent and believe, and then to OBEY. A multitude of verses state God has given man free will to choose. OSAS has its roots in this idea that God has DECIDED who will be saved and who will be lost, therefore can never lose his salvation. Predestination is a whole other issue, but I want to explain where the idea of OSAS came from.

It has been explained in other posts that legalism, that is following the law vs obeying God's commands out of LOVE for Christ are two different things. We see Paul and the other apostles and disciples in the New Testament calling believers to OBEDIENCE. They are called out many times for sin and unbelief. But the difference is we are motivated by our love for Christ--and we are told the Commandment are not burdensome.

Also someone mentioned preaching hell fire and brimstone--that is a separate idea as well and has nothing to do with taking the position of our need to both abide in Christ and obey His commands. I for one believe Romans 6:23 "The wages of sin is death."

 

[Laura798]

But that's the problem, the abundant life preachers don't preach the Gospel.

In fact, Joel Osteen is recorded on the Larry King show saying we don't mention the Cross, the Blood, we don't want to offend anyone.

It's not just him, it's everyone of them! The abundant life so-called Gospel is contrary to the Cross of Christ in the way it is preached and purposed today!

Charlie,

I meet so many 'Christians' in so called 'mainstream' churches, who have served for years yet do not know the foundational truths of the gospel--they prefer worldly friends and TV programs--programs I think even many unbelievers would not watch. I am not legalistic in this--I truly have no desire to watch anything that is violent or sexual or vacuous --I have no understanding how a person who calls themselves Christians can take part in this--also accepting of same sex marriage, girls becoming boys, supporting Marxists organizations (will leave unnamed). Christians who live like the world or who accept teaching that is not based in Scripture are so often from the OSAS camp.

"Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them."--Acts 20:30

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but having itching ears, they shall heap to themselves teachers in accordance with their own lusts."--2 Timothy 2-4

And in this verse Peter is warning believers that they could 'fall from their secure position'--Yes, it is firmly secure as long as we abide in Christ and His Truth!

"17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position."--2 3:14-18

 

[Jackson123]

Jesus come to redem our sin.
Than we accept Jesus in our hearth, He in us will bear the fruit and the fruit of the Holy Spirit us love
Can we save without fruit?
I believe as soon as we accept Jesus and die the next second, we save, before demonstrate the fruit.
But if after accept Jesus 10 year still rob the bank for living, that mean the faith is fake.

John 15
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Abide>bear fruit/good work
Not abide> cast them into fire/he'll

We can not say, I will keep robing the bank. Any way salvation not by work.

 

[Hann57]

Jesus Christ was not crucified for the sins of the world. That is not the gospel.

Read the gospel that Paul wrote again, it does not say what you say.

 

[Hann57]

Jesus come to redem our sin.
Than we accept Jesus in our hearth, He in us will bear the fruit and the fruit of the Holy Spirit us love
Can we save without fruit?
I believe as soon as we accept Jesus and die the next second, we save, before demonstrate the fruit.
But if after accept Jesus 10 year still rob the bank for living, that mean the faith is fake.

John 15
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Abide>bear fruit/good work
Not abide> cast them into fire/he'll

We can not say, I will keep robing the bank. Any way salvation not by work.

Accept Jesus into your heart ? That is not the gospel that Paul preached.

 

[Laura798]

Jesus Christ was not crucified for the sins of the world. That is not the gospel.

Read the gospel that Paul wrote again, it does not say what you say.

The only faith that says Christ did not die for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD are those who follow the teaching of Calvin. This is one of those subtle, yet incredibly wrong doctrines I spoke of in the mainstream church. Yes Christ did die for the sin of the WHOLE WORLD--of course Calvinists cannot believe this as that would mean everyone has the opportunity to be Saved IF they repent and believe.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.-John 3:16

As an example--a large ship is sinking. Another large ship comes by that can accommodate all those about to drown in the ocean. And the Captain yells out to the people--"COME, I WILL SAVE YOU!" Only those who heed his call and enter the ship will be saved. Those who don't will drown.