Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,002
366
83
#1
There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.
 
Dec 9, 2011
12,192
1,249
113
#2
The WORD of GOD IS Incorruptible or Are you saying that that's what the WORD says but It Is possible to corrupt the WORD?That would be a contradiction would you agree?
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,002
366
83
#3
Hi. I'm not sure I follow.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,123
15,061
113
#4

1 John 2:19

John 10:27-28
:)
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,060
1,899
113
#5
The Lord is truth. The Lord tells us that unrepentant sin we do not ask forgiveness for kills, this is the truth. OSAS tells us that they think that is not true, that a person can bypass that truth if he once, at some other time, asked forgiveness of sin. Scripture tells about people who turn from God, scripture tells us it happens. OSAS do not believe in the truth of scripture, they are making up their own truth.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,365
444
83
#6
Why would anyone who is in Christ insist Jesus died to seal for eternity his promise of eternal salvation is bunk? :rolleyes:

Conditional salvation isn't salvation.
It's damnation wrapped in a Satanic lie. It is the insecurity, the anti-faith that one who is damned believes in as needing to labor to see heaven. They never shall. .
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
290
79
28
ogom.co
#7
There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."


anything not understood with help of the spirit in us (Christ) can or will be schewed. therefore, the true (r) the follower, the more they find / come to know of truth. the one who begins (again or to begin with) with the realization that they don't know ---- can find much. the one whose mind has closed down around wherever / however it has closed down / off 'new' revelation (as it were, though it's is not new or unknown to God ---- but will / appear to be new, or strange or even wrong in many cases -- because of spiritual lack / immaturity / hardened heart / or mind) will find themselves stuck in a mind - box for however long they refuse or do not allow themselves to become as a child (open-minded). Matthew 18:3 - 4
 

JTB

Active member
Aug 31, 2021
213
117
43
#8
A stray cat found our doggy door and came into our home. We welcomed it, fed it, took it to the vet, made it a full on member of our family. There was no way we would ever stop loving it, toss it out or send it away.

But ... we never sealed off the doggy door. The cat was free to leave the way it came in. At any point it could have thought "I've had enough of this it's time to move on" and left.

God is our Father. Our healer/feeder/provider. But He is not our jailer.

What He does, and what we do, are two different things. And scripture clearly explains that.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
3,154
1,003
113
#9
There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.
yeah once saved always saved is a tricky concept and no Matter what verse you wuote won’t convince anyone to believe it applies try this one

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Clearly it’s possible to receive the Holy Spirit and it’s power and fall away and be lost but it doesn’t make a dent because they respond with other verses so this one no longer applies somehow 🙂
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,060
1,899
113
#10
Why would anyone who is in Christ insist Jesus died to seal for eternity his promise of eternal salvation is bunk? :rolleyes:

Conditional salvation isn't salvation.
It's damnation wrapped in a Satanic lie. It is the insecurity, the anti-faith that one who is damned believes in as needing to labor to see heaven. They never shall. .[/QUOTE You say there are no conditions to salvation but the Lord tells us faith is a condition. The Lord asks us to forgive others if we want the Lord to forgive us. And the Lord asks us to repent of sin. That is a condition. The Lord is truth. ]
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,999
10,794
113
55
#11
Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,433
880
113
London
#12
There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.
Saved means saved, or else God would have used a different word ... like probation.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,433
880
113
London
#13
A stray cat found our doggy door and came into our home. We welcomed it, fed it, took it to the vet, made it a full on member of our family. There was no way we would ever stop loving it, toss it out or send it away.

But ... we never sealed off the doggy door. The cat was free to leave the way it came in. At any point it could have thought "I've had enough of this it's time to move on" and left.

God is our Father. Our healer/feeder/provider. But He is not our jailer.

What He does, and what we do, are two different things. And scripture clearly explains that.
He also owns us.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,433
880
113
London
#14
There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.
I wonder where they walk to these people who "walk away from God" do they make their bed in the depths of the ocean ? behold God is there, do they take the wings of a dove and fly to the far side of the mountain? behold God is there and His right hand will hold them fast.

Negative thoughts and doubts come to us all [where from?] if you don't dismiss them you are paying heed to a doctrine of devils.
 
Dec 9, 2011
12,192
1,249
113
#15
Hi. I'm not sure I follow.
yeah once saved always saved is a tricky concept and no Matter what verse you wuote won’t convince anyone to believe it applies try this one

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Clearly it’s possible to receive the Holy Spirit and it’s power and fall away and be lost but it doesn’t make a dent because they respond with other verses so this one no longer applies somehow 🙂
Could the words It's Impossible be Interpreted as If It were possible because this sounds like only a Christian could fall away and the bible says that the the seed Is Incorruptible so then If a born again person that has all those things listed In Hebrews could fall away wouldn't that mean that the Incorruptible seed could become corrupted?
 
Aug 4, 2021
586
175
43
#16
Very clear, only get one chance. Not allowed to fail after asking to join.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,123
15,061
113
#17
I wonder where they walk to these people who "walk away from God" do they make their bed in the depths of the ocean ? behold God is there, do they take the wings of a dove and fly to the far side of the mountain? behold God is there and His right hand will hold them fast.
Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and,
"A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud."

2 Peter 2:22
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,382
17,666
113
#18
There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."
So never of us does not mean never. It means not fully?
as for the sermon on the mount. The person was never saved. It had i root. Christ is the root. That’s why it fell

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.
So never knew him does not mean never knew him. Lol. Wow. Just wow
Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.
So let me get this straight
never does not mean never
I guess eternal does not mean eternal?
And you are so powerful you can snatch yourself out of Gods hands

Your attempt failed My friend you ignore the meaning of words. Anyone with an open mind can see right through this