Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[ThewindBlows]

Like I said, either intentionally blind, or brainwashed.

That's nice, here is a mystery for you

Colossians 1:27

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

"Christ in you"

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The Bible says you can know

 

[ThewindBlows]

1 John 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The flip side of this are verses that indicate eternal life is a present reality and that it cannot be lost and that our own personal work of perseverance is contrary to grace.

The problem with this is the verses which you say "indicate eternal life is a present reality and that it cannot be lost" can easily be interpreted in a different way than what you think they mean. The scriptures that talk about personal perseverance are very clear and leave very little room for creative interpretation. The scriptures you're talking about have to be interpreted in light of the scriptures I'm talking about; something the eternal security folks refuse to do.

 

[ThewindBlows]

that our own personal work of perseverance is contrary to grace.

Have you ever really found someone that has said that? Love is not contrary to Grace, I think the problem is what people are working for and some think they can work for there salvation, Work as hard as you want but what are you working for

 

[ThewindBlows]

The problem with this is the verses which you say "indicate eternal life is a present reality and that it cannot be lost" can easily be interpreted in a different way than what you think they mean. The scriptures that talk about personal perseverance are very clear and leave very little room for creative interpretation. The scriptures you're talking about have to be interpreted in light of the scriptures I'm talking about; something the eternal security folks refuse to do.

From the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks, And what comes out of your mouth Resident Alien?

What is your faith in to save you? and what is your faith in to keep you saved?

That will show us what your faith is in for Salvation!

 

[markss]

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us."

I suggest we stay with what is written, that they went out because they actually were not of us. Not in some vague sense of not being sufficiently like minded, but that we and they were actually not the same.

Consider, do those who remain all think the same things? Not that I've seen. But if some have the Holy Spirit, and some do not, those who do not will not remain. God keeps us, and those who do not know God are not kept.

Much love!

 

[markss]

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Again, this is answered by simply accepting what the verse itself says. " . . . has either seen Him or known Him". Maybe that's actually exactly true?

Because there is one who hears the word and it is snatched away does not mean that someone who claimed to know Him and doesn't was saved and then lost that.

Much love!

 

[Beckie]

On the contrary, your refusal to accept what I've shown you in the Bible shows your desperation and willingness to lean on your own understanding. You dare reject the words of Jesus? That's your choice.

what YOU have shown . How big is your ego.? Show me the words of Jesus stating Judas operated in the Gifts. You cant there aren't any.

What words of Jesus do you say i reject?

 

[markss]

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Does this mean you think you can snatch yourself from His hand?

Let's look at some verses which tell us that won't happen,

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

If you've been raised with Him, this means you have died with Him, and you Shall appear with Him in glory.

Being born again, you will appear with Christ in glory. This is prophecy, a foretelling of what will happen. It will happen.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

If we are the children of God now, we will be like Him when He appears. We will be. More prophecy.

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

If our citizenship is in heaven, Jesus will change "the body of our humiliation" to be like His glorious body.

The condition is if our citizenship is in heaven, the result is transformation to be like Jesus.

The fact of the matter is,

1 Peter 1:3-5 KJV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Your faith is God's power in you guarding you, keeping you for salvation.

Much love!

 

[soberxp]

God saved always saved.

 

[markss]

1 John 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

So . . . can you know? OR no?

Because this says you can know.

Much love!

 

[ThewindBlows]

So . . . can you know? OR no?

Because this says you can know.

Much love!

Marks when you just quote a bible verse what do you want me to say, Yep?

But yes you either know or you don't know, your words show what comes out of your heart

 

[Runningman]

Your conception of what it means to have eternal life seems skewed; but not just you, a lot of people. Yes, we have the promise of eternal life through faith in Christ, but that promise isn't fully realized until we die in Christ or are taken to Him when He appears. People in this thread have posted scripture after scripture that proves we will receive the promise of eternal life if we remain faithful to the end; but for some reason you're blind to it. I don't know if you just don't want to see it or if you're so brainwashed you can't see it.

They seem to think they can be faithful for an hour or two, nab the irrevocable gift of eternal life, then do anything they want, even abandon the faith. Not how it works. The gift of eternal life isn’t received until later and it’s for the faithful. That’s fair, logically speaking, and Biblical. Why would God give a gift before someone has been faithful to the end?

This doctrine of easy believism has invaded the church and confused many people and yes easy believism leads someone a very wrong path, possibly to condemnation.

 

[Cameron143]

The problem with this is the verses which you say "indicate eternal life is a present reality and that it cannot be lost" can easily be interpreted in a different way than what you think they mean. The scriptures that talk about personal perseverance are very clear and leave very little room for creative interpretation. The scriptures you're talking about have to be interpreted in light of the scriptures I'm talking about; something the eternal security folks refuse to do.

You are making my point. Those on the other side of the argument would pose the same supposition.

 

[Cameron143]

Have you ever really found someone that has said that? Love is not contrary to Grace, I think the problem is what people are working for and some think they can work for there salvation, Work as hard as you want but what are you working for

I'm not sure I understand your question.

 

[ThewindBlows]

I'm not sure I understand your question.

The flip side of this are verses that indicate eternal life is a present reality and that it cannot be lost and that our own personal work of perseverance is contrary to grace.

I have never heard anyone say our own personal work or perseverance is contrary to grace, the comment surprised me, but in the new testament love is not contrary to grace, we love because he first loved us, so my point was what are people actually think they are working for and if its Salvation they don't understand yet

 

[Cameron143]

I have never heard anyone say our own personal work or perseverance is contrary to grace, the comment surprised me, but in the new testament love is not contrary to grace, we love because he first loved us, so my point was what are people actually think they are working for and if its Salvation they don't understand yet

Grace not opposed to love but works. In other words, what God does verses what we do.

 

[markss]

Marks when you just quote a bible verse what do you want me to say, Yep?

But yes you either know or you don't know, your words show what comes out of your heart

I was more just trying to agree with you but I know, sometimes my words get convoluted. Kind of a "stream of consciousness" thing, which if you aren't in my head, you may not catch.

And if you ARE in my head, remember, keep your hands and feet inside the car at all times, and don't, whatever you do, don't listen to the Voices!

Much love!

 

[Runningman]

what YOU have shown . How big is your ego.? Show me the words of Jesus stating Judas operated in the Gifts. You cant there aren't any.

Mark 6:7,12,13
7Calling the Twelve to him, he began to send them out two by two and gave them authority over impure spirits.
12They went out and preached that people should repent.
13They drove out many demons and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them.

Matthew 10:2-8
2These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus
4Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.
6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.
7As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’
8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

1 Corinthians 12:7,9,11
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, who apportions them to each one as He determines.

Mark 16:17,18
17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
18they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well.”

 

[Runningman]

The problem with this is the verses which you say "indicate eternal life is a present reality and that it cannot be lost" can easily be interpreted in a different way than what you think they mean. The scriptures that talk about personal perseverance are very clear and leave very little room for creative interpretation. The scriptures you're talking about have to be interpreted in light of the scriptures I'm talking about; something the eternal security folks refuse to do.

I maintain that scripture is in harmony and there are no contradictions. The only way to make eternal life now and eternal life later mesh is to either create two gifts of eternal life or interpret the gift of eternal life as something that comes later. The latter interpretation is more sound as far as I can tell. We seem to be in agreement.