Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[cv5]

I believe "impeccable"

The ultimate Winner who cannot ever fail, lose, disappoint or give up.

Satan bit off more than he could chew.

 

[posthuman]

Yes Jesus had faith.

Jesus said his Father knows something that he doesn’t know, but Jesus believed God. That’s faith.

Mark 13
32“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Are there times in the gospel when Jesus had access to divine knowledge, but other times only had human knowledge of events taking place?

This is Hebrew betrothal ceremony language.

The Bride waits while the Bridegroom prepares a place for her in His Father's house.
The Bridegroom will come at an unannounced time to snatch her away to the wedding ceremony, so she prepares herself and her maidens wait with their lamps full because it may be in the middle of the night.
The Groom's Father sets the day and the hour for the wedding, and if anyone asks the Groom He says "only my Father knows"

It doesn't mean the Groom does not know. It means it is kept secret.

http://messianicfellowship.50webs.com/wedding.html

 

[John146]

He is The Truth and knows all things
i don't understand what does He need to be persuaded of?

I gave you scripture how he always obeyed the Father. He did his Father’s will, not his own. The Bible says that he learned obedience through the things that he suffered and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

One without the other is as useless as a body without a spirit. It’s literally dead, has no breath in it. Faith without works is dead. Works without faith is dead. James is clear man.

The comparison of the human spirit and faith here converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The comparison of the human spirit and faith here converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Like I always say. If you claim you trust someone. yet never do anything they ask. Do you really trust them?

My answer would be no

 

[mailmandan]

Like I always say. If you claim you trust someone. yet never do anything they ask. Do you really trust them?

My answer would be no

Amen! Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

Where people error is when they try to make BOTH faith AND works the root of salvation (cart before the horse) and teach that we are saved by BOTH faith AND works, in contradiction to scripture. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Amen! Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

Where people error is when they try to make BOTH faith AND works the root of salvation (cart before the horse) and teach that we are saved by BOTH faith AND works, in contradiction to scripture. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

its human (flesh) Nature. We need to have part of our own salvation. we have to do something.. Its lack of humility and pride that keeps us from repenting fully from dead works.

 

[mailmandan]

its human (flesh) Nature. We need to have part of our own salvation. we have to do something.. Its lack of humility and pride that keeps us from repenting fully from dead works.

Like I have always said. That salvation is by grace through faith and is NOT BY WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for many people to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow such people to trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

 

[Underwhosewings]

They agree because of their Calvinist leanings. "salvation is a sovereign act of God"

John 6:66-67 KJV
From that time many of his
disciples went back,
and walked no more with him.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve,
Will ye also go away?

Revelation 3:5 KJV
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[PennEd]

David repented, bitterly, and said my sin is ever before me

You said your Pastor friend should repent and go back to his 1st wife.
Maybe so, but David couldn't deliver Bathsheba back to her husband Uriah. David had him murdered.
What's more, David STAYED with the wife he stole, and had a child with Bathsheba that is in the Lord's lineage.

You can be saved and walk away from God's grace. You cannot say that person who is willfully living in sin is saved.

I believe your position on your Pastor friend is that he was saved, is living in sin, and has therefore lost his salvation, but if he repents, he will be saved again?

So a person can be born again, made anew from God, reckoned as a child of God, live in some unrepentant sin, become UNborn again, kicked out of the family of God, THEN repent, and become born again again!?

You don't see the flaw with that?

 

[Runningman]

The comparison of the human spirit and faith here converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

You're just saying that a body is required to have breath; one can't live without the other. I agree with that much. Works can't live without faith, hence the term "dead works." Dead works are things done without faith and they are sin. Remember, it's impossible to please God without faith. Whatever is not from faith is sin.

Keeping James 2 in mind, where Abraham was justified by his faith and his works, Ephesians 2 is clear we are saved by grace through faith and works, not of [dead] works.

Faith + good works are required:

Ephesians 2
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[Runningman]

This is Hebrew betrothal ceremony language.

The Bride waits while the Bridegroom prepares a place for her in His Father's house.
The Bridegroom will come at an unannounced time to snatch her away to the wedding ceremony, so she prepares herself and her maidens wait with their lamps full because it may be in the middle of the night.
The Groom's Father sets the day and the hour for the wedding, and if anyone asks the Groom He says "only my Father knows"

It doesn't mean the Groom does not know. It means it is kept secret.

http://messianicfellowship.50webs.com/wedding.html

Literal or symbolic/figurative language, the fact remains that Jesus said his Father knows something that he doesn't know. Either way, it proves Jesus had faith. I selected this verse in particular so it couldn't be reinterpreted based on semantics or technicalities. I know how these discussions work in this thread.

 

[HeIsHere]

Amen! Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

Where people error is when they try to make BOTH faith AND works the root of salvation (cart before the horse) and teach that we are saved by BOTH faith AND works, in contradiction to scripture. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Which works are evidential?

 

[HeIsHere]

You're just saying that a body is required to have breath; one can't live without the other. I agree with that much. Works can't live without faith, hence the term "dead works." Dead works are things done without faith and they are sin. Remember, it's impossible to please God without faith. Whatever is not from faith is sin.

Keeping James 2 in mind, where Abraham was justified by his faith and his works, Ephesians 2 is clear we are saved by grace through faith and works, not of [dead] works.

Faith + good works are required:

Ephesians 2
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Which works and how many?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Like I have always said. That salvation is by grace through faith and is NOT BY WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for many people to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow such people to trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

if one looks at all the worlds religions. 99 % of them based their eternity on works..And this includes many so called christian churches..

True christianity is so small. Thats why it is said, Narrow is the gate.. and few that enter

 

[posthuman]

Literal or symbolic/figurative language, the fact remains that Jesus said his Father knows something that he doesn't know. Either way, it proves Jesus had faith. I selected this verse in particular so it couldn't be reinterpreted based on semantics or technicalities. I know how these discussions work in this thread.

Does this prove that the Father has faith?
That He isn't omniscient?

Revelation 19:12
His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.

 

[mailmandan]

You're just saying that a body is required to have breath; one can't live without the other. I agree with that much. Works can't live without faith, hence the term "dead works." Dead works are things done without faith and they are sin. Remember, it's impossible to please God without faith. Whatever is not from faith is sin.

Keeping James 2 in mind, where Abraham was justified by his faith and his works, Ephesians 2 is clear we are saved by grace through faith and works, not of [dead] works.

Faith + good works are required:

Ephesians 2
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

In what "sense" was James "justified by works?" Be sure to read Romans 4:2-3 before you answer that question.

Also, do you believe that we are we saved "for" good works or "by" good works?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

You said your Pastor friend should repent and go back to his 1st wife.
Maybe so, but David couldn't deliver Bathsheba back to her husband Uriah. David had him murdered.
What's more, David STAYED with the wife he stole, and had a child with Bathsheba that is in the Lord's lineage.

So then I go back to the comment that made some here angry. A pastor of OSAS said
“If I killed my wife and mother and debauched a thousand women, I couldn’t go to Hell.” He even said, “I couldn’t go to Hell if I wanted to.”
Bill Foster, The Weekly Worker, March 12, 1959


Another quote "Sam Morris, who is a Baptist preacher: “We take the position that a Christian’s sins do not damn his soul! The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul… All the prayers a man may pray, all the Bibles he may read, all the churches he may belong to, all the services he may attend, all the sermons he may practice, all the debt he may pay, all the ordinances he may observe, all the laws he may keep, all the benevolent acts he may perform, will not make his soul one wit safer; and all the sins he may commit from idolatry to murder will not make his soul in any more danger… The way a man lives has nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul.” (From: A Discussion Which Involves a Subject Pertinent to All Men)."

So this is what I'm hearing. Is this what you are saying? There are people that believe it and that is stunning to me. If you don't please explain why you don't.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Without God dying for me and giving me the Faith to Believe, I would be lost.

But now that I am saved and no longer require milk but meat, I have works I am responsible to do to increase God's Kingdom.

I literally would have to ignore the Holy Spirit to sit on my butt and do no works.

These works have nothing to do with my continual Salvation, but everything to do with my Reward in Heaven.

Because I LOVE GOD, I desire a great Reward for increasing His Kingdom.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Without God dying for me and giving me the Faith to Believe, I would be lost.

But now that I am saved and no longer require milk but meat, I have works I am responsible to do to increase God's Kingdom.

I literally would have to ignore the Holy Spirit to sit on my butt and do no works.

These works have nothing to do with my continual Salvation, but everything to do with my Reward in Heaven.

Because I LOVE GOD, I desire a great Reward for increasing His Kingdom.

I don't believe works will get you into heaven. But I do not believe a person can claimed to be saved and live in continual sin. Not a matter of slipping, we all do. But living a sinful lifestyle to continue in sin is abusing God's grace.