Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
3,145
1,332
113
See, you do believe that you must do something to become saved, don't you? And
for the hundredth time - FAITH IS A WORK - it is God's work and He alone imparts it to those He saves.
Nevertheless, one's faith is not what saves them, Christ's faith alone brought salvation and it is reckoned as a gift
to those whom God had chosen for salvation. One's faith comes FROM being saved, it is not to becoming saved.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Ok, small steps here, let's take the emotion out of the question. Today is your lucky day. I call you and say "You have won $10,000 as our 100th customer. Congrats Mr. Rogerg the check is in the mail. You receive the check, but to spend the money you have to do something, you have to enforce it. If you do, does that mean you did something to earn the money, or was it a gift?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,278
5,211
113
62
Ok, small steps here, let's take the emotion out of the question. Today is your lucky day. I call you and say "You have won $10,000 as our 100th customer. Congrats Mr. Rogerg the check is in the mail. You receive the check, but to spend the money you have to do something, you have to enforce it. If you do, does that mean you did something to earn the money, or was it a gift?
His scenario has direct deposit.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,809
25,985
113
I get the part about how God did it all... He showed me His unconditional love, allowed me
to experience it, imparted to me the knowledge that I was forgiven, despite all my errant
ways, which He knew everything and all about, loving me just the same, and forgiving me
when I could not forgive myself. I simply sat there in that church, after watching a movie
on the life of Christ based on the gospel of Luke, after wondering about Who Jesus was
(which in part had prompted me to go to that church to see that movie in the first place),
and experienced the grace of God, His love, His forgiveness, as it filled me completely, a
full body experience like none ever before or since. But as I walked away from that church,
I still did not believe in that God. Oh, yes, I treasured the fact of knowing He loved and
forgave me, but still really had no understanding of Who Jesus was, and not knowing Jesus,
and still rejecting the God understanding put forth in the Bible, and organized religion, and
"all that jazz," I had no faith, and still found Scripture to be disagreeable. I went my own way
looking for a different understanding of what people called "God" for many years after.

Some say that experience is proof I was already saved. I disagree. Without a proper response
on my part, including acceptance of what God offers, and coming to believe, which includes
developing a growing faith and trust in all that I had hitherto (ha) rejected, I would not have
escaped the second death in that state of unbelief, which surely means I was not yet saved.
 

Bingo

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2019
8,376
4,422
113
I get the part about how God did it all... He showed me His unconditional love, allowed me
to experience it, imparted to me the knowledge that I was forgiven, despite all my errant
ways, which He knew everything and all about, loving me just the same, and forgiving me
when I could not forgive myself. I simply sat there in that church, after watching a movie
on the life of Christ based on the gospel of Luke, after wondering about Who Jesus was
(which in part had prompted me to go to that church to see that movie in the first place),
and experienced the grace of God, His love, His forgiveness, as it filled me completely, a
full body experience like none ever before or since. But as I walked away from that church,
I still did not believe in that God. Oh, yes, I treasured the fact of knowing He loved and
forgave me, but still really had no understanding of Who Jesus was, and not knowing Jesus,
and still rejecting the God understanding put forth in the Bible, and organized religion, and
"all that jazz," I had no faith, and still found Scripture to be disagreeable. I went my own way
looking for a different understanding of what people called "God" for many years after.


Some say that experience is proof I was already saved. I disagree. Without a proper response
on my part, including acceptance of what God offers, and coming to believe, which includes
developing a growing faith and trust in all that I had hitherto (ha) rejected, I would not have
escaped the second death in that state of unbelief, which surely means I was not yet saved.
"Words of soundness. Thank you for sharing!":)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,278
5,211
113
62
I get the part about how God did it all... He showed me His unconditional love, allowed me
to experience it, imparted to me the knowledge that I was forgiven, despite all my errant
ways, which He knew everything and all about, loving me just the same, and forgiving me
when I could not forgive myself. I simply sat there in that church, after watching a movie
on the life of Christ based on the gospel of Luke, after wondering about Who Jesus was
(which in part had prompted me to go to that church to see that movie in the first place),
and experienced the grace of God, His love, His forgiveness, as it filled me completely, a
full body experience like none ever before or since. But as I walked away from that church,
I still did not believe in that God. Oh, yes, I treasured the fact of knowing He loved and
forgave me, but still really had no understanding of Who Jesus was, and not knowing Jesus,
and still rejecting the God understanding put forth in the Bible, and organized religion, and
"all that jazz," I had no faith, and still found Scripture to be disagreeable. I went my own way
looking for a different understanding of what people called "God" for many years after.

Some say that experience is proof I was already saved. I disagree. Without a proper response
on my part, including acceptance of what God offers, and coming to believe, which includes
developing a growing faith and trust in all that I had hitherto (ha) rejected, I would not have
escaped the second death in that state of unbelief, which surely means I was not yet saved.
So share the rest of the story Paul Harvey.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,107
431
83
Ok, small steps here, let's take the emotion out of the question. Today is your lucky day. I call you and say "You have won $10,000 as our 100th customer. Congrats Mr. Rogerg the check is in the mail. You receive the check, but to spend the money you have to do something, you have to enforce it. If you do, does that mean you did something to earn the money, or was it a gift?
That analogy breaks down for a multitude of reasons. The one I think appropriate is if someone has died but there is
a medicine to return him to life, if someone administers that medicine, and by that they are returned to life, what
contribution did the dead person make? Nothing whatsoever, they were only beneficiaries without the ability
to influence outcome - it was solely a gift to them. We are all born being spiritually dead in sin and only those whom God saves given the medicine of spiritual life.

[Eph 2:1 KJV]
1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[Col 2:13 KJV]
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,107
431
83
I get the part about how God did it all... He showed me His unconditional love, allowed me
to experience it, imparted to me the knowledge that I was forgiven, despite all my errant
ways, which He knew everything and all about, loving me just the same, and forgiving me
when I could not forgive myself. I simply sat there in that church, after watching a movie
on the life of Christ based on the gospel of Luke, after wondering about Who Jesus was
(which in part had prompted me to go to that church to see that movie in the first place),
and experienced the grace of God, His love, His forgiveness, as it filled me completely, a
full body experience like none ever before or since. But as I walked away from that church,
I still did not believe in that God. Oh, yes, I treasured the fact of knowing He loved and
forgave me, but still really had no understanding of Who Jesus was, and not knowing Jesus,
and still rejecting the God understanding put forth in the Bible, and organized religion, and
"all that jazz," I had no faith, and still found Scripture to be disagreeable. I went my own way
looking for a different understanding of what people called "God" for many years after.


Some say that experience is proof I was already saved. I disagree. Without a proper response
on my part, including acceptance of what God offers, and coming to believe, which includes
developing a growing faith and trust in all that I had hitherto (ha) rejected, I would not have
escaped the second death in that state of unbelief, which surely means I was not yet saved.
A dead person is oblivious to external stimuli. They must first be given life in order for them to comprehend what their
prior condition was. But by then, and for that, they therefore had already been made alive.
And I should have added that being made alive is having become saved - spiritual life comes with the gift.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,278
5,211
113
62
Who is Paul Harvey? .:unsure::giggle:
An iconic American radio voice and storyteller. He was famous for telling part of a story then pausing and then telling the remainder of the tale. Usually they had an unexpected twist ending.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,872
1,674
113
A dead person is oblivious to external stimuli. They must first be given life in order for them to comprehend what their
prior condition was. But by then, and for that, they therefore had already been made alive.
And I should have added that being made alive is having become saved - spiritual life comes with the gift.
So then, the dead are conscious of nothing and wicked are utterly destroyed, mebbe even totally annihilated?
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,107
431
83
So then, the dead are conscious of nothing and wicked are utterly destroyed, mebbe even totally annihilated?
Yes, the sin was from, and by, Adam and Eve:

[Rom 5:19 KJV] 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,872
1,674
113
One that cannot respond, cannot be blamed.
I supposed that'd appear to 'cover all the bases' but then, when the umpire exclaims, "you're out!" and you have to get off the field...
Well, there's always the instant replay technology, I guess.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,872
1,674
113
Yes, the sin was from, and by, Adam and Eve:

[Rom 5:19 KJV] 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
I don't understand why do the wicked perish if they aren't responsible? That seems to affectively amounts to innocence, or something like reason of insanity at least.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,278
5,211
113
62
I don't understand why do the wicked perish if they aren't responsible? That seems to affectively amounts to innocence, or something like reason of insanity at least.
The reformed argument isn't that man's cognitive ability was rendered inoperable, but corrupted. This coupled with the loss of spiritual sensitivity renders man incapable of seeking after God in an effectual manner. Man is, however, able to comprehend God through creation and conscience. According to Romans 1 this renders him culpable.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,107
431
83
I don't understand why do the wicked perish if they aren't responsible? That seems to affectively amounts to innocence, or something like reason of insanity at least.
Because of Adam and Eve, all are born loving darkness, not light - it is in man's nature. Loving darkness is loving one's works for salvation

[Jhn 3:19 KJV] 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

[Psa 58:3 KJV] 3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
3,145
1,332
113
No - one's response or not has nothing to do with it.

Perhaps we can just stop a moment and pray for the families that just lost three children in Nashville today. There was a school shooting, so far we know three children have died. I know this is usually posted in news, but just hearing it now on the news. The children were very young. I hope no more have lost their lives.