Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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selahsays

selahsays

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@romans113336
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

- Ephesians 1:3-16 (KJV)
 
selahsays

selahsays

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romans113336 said:
That's interesting.

You're agreeing that a non elect person can be saved by faith, and a person who has faith can fall away from faith.

Then what does "elect" mean?
Click to expand...
Not exactly. A person who has true faith won’t fall away either.
Elect means chosen.
 
romans113336

romans113336

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Sep 23, 2023
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selahsays said:
@romans113336
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

- Ephesians 1:3-16 (KJV)
Click to expand...
Yeah, sealed with the Spirit.

John says only those who abide/remain in Christ He gives His Spirit to.

He also defines how to abide/remain in Christ: obey.

What to "obey"?

He also supplies us with that: believe in the Name of the son of God and love one another.

As the Galatians were told, when they fell from faith, "Who hindered you from obeying [believing] the truth?"

So, those who remain in the faith and who continue loving others are obeying, thus remaining, thus are supplied with the Spirit.

Those who infract this are in danger of God not supplying His Spirit, says Paul : "He who disregards this [prohibition on immorality] disregards not man but God Who gives you His Spirit." As David said, after he sinned, "Do not cast me away from Your presence, and do not take Your Holy Spirit away from me!" And Samson experienced this. So did King Saul. And we see John warns "Little children remain in Him so you will not draw back in shame at His appearance"--and Rev 16:15 comments, "watch that you may keep your garments lest you walk naked and the shame of your nakedness appear", and the Laodiceans had already lost theirs and were "naked" Rv 3.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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There’s only one unpardonable sin.

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

- Matthew 12:31-32 (KJV)
 
romans113336

romans113336

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selahsays said:
Nope. I never said the elect could be lost. As a matter of fact, I said quite the opposite. Are you getting desperate @romans113336 ?
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I think what happened was you agreed to those things without understanding you were agreeing to them.

Let me state this: when Paul says "the elect obtained the rest were hardened", what did they "obtain" and how did they "obtain" ? Was it by faith?
 
selahsays

selahsays

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romans113336 said:
I think what happened was you agreed to those things without understanding you were agreeing to them.

Let me state this: when Paul says "the elect obtained the rest were hardened", what did they "obtain" and how did they "obtain" ? Was it by faith?
Click to expand...
They obtained salvation. Read your Bible.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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romans113336 said:
...and how did they obtain it?
Click to expand...
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

- Romans 8:28-33 (KJV)
 
romans113336

romans113336

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selahsays said:
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

- Romans 8:28-33 (KJV)
Click to expand...
So, you would agree that they obtained the salvation by grace through faith correct?
 
selahsays

selahsays

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romans113336 said:
And would you agree that:
1. The Jews who did not "believe" were not "elect" and therefore did not "obtain"?
2. That the Gentiles who did "believe" were "elect" and therefore "obtained"?
Click to expand...
Only God knows (His foreknowledge )His election.
 
romans113336

romans113336

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selahsays said:
Only God knows (His foreknowledge )His election.
Click to expand...
1. So, "the elect obtained, the rest were hardened": you would not conclude "the elect obtained" and "the rest" were not elect?
2. You could not affirm that the Gentiles who believed were "elect"? Don't you believe only the "elect" can believe unto obtaining God's "kindness" (Ro 11:17-12)? Are they able to trick God into thinking they have faith when they don't have faith, so that they have God's "kindness" and not His "severity" which specifically falls on those who disbelieve (eg, the Jews, as the passage states)?
 
selahsays

selahsays

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romans113336 said:
1. So, "the elect obtained, the rest were hardened": you would not conclude "the elect obtained" and "the rest" were not elect?
2. You could not affirm that the Gentiles who believed were "elect"? Don't you believe only the "elect" can believe unto obtaining God's "kindness" (Ro 11:17-12)? Are they able to trick God into thinking they have faith when they don't have faith?
Click to expand...
Why don’t you study on your own? Your aim, it seems, is to prove me wrong, no matter what. You certainly aren’t grateful for any of the scriptures that have been shown to you. I’m wasting my time with you.
 
romans113336

romans113336

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selahsays said:
Why don’t you study on your own? Your aim, it seems, is to prove me wrong, no matter what. You certainly aren’t grateful for any of the scriptures that have been shown to you. I’m wasting my time with you.
Click to expand...
1. This is a Bible discussion, so I'm discussing Bible.
2. I guess you can see where this is heading, so, since you're incapable of defending your view, you're conceding the point. :ROFL:
This is what you all do.
 
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