Once saved, always saved

[Grace777x70]

Oh brother.....and this is one of the reasons why Paul told us we are told to avoid some people.. ( 1 Cor 5:9-11 ) ...it doesn't matter what you say - they say the opposite....

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

A passing thought, I wonder if Grace is the author of the site, as he knows it all so well, and quotes continually from it when after visiting the site, it would take a very long time to get such a grasp of its contributions.

I also wonder if he has some kind of affiliation with that site.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is a very bad statement to make. It is calling the work of the Holy Spirit a work of the enemy, and those who sincerely understand scripture lost and blind, doomed to hell.

People who deny the work of God in saving souls, making the alive doing what he promised to do (making them perfect as he sanctifies them) and saving forever those who are lost, are the ones who are an enemy of God.

They do not understand the word of God. nor are they following the spirit. they are following satan

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is all testimony against you and projection.
Your group used to hate this term, I am a sinner saved by grace. Now you embrace it but have changed its meaning.
A sinner is a person who has sinned sometime in their life. Saved by grace is the cross and forgiveness of past and present sins. Through knowing Gods transforming power we now walk in purity and righteousness.

I do not hold with EG's list and know my sins. He has tried to accuse me of sin, say extreme things, provoke and push me into anger, but the Lords love is greater still, Glory to His name. He claims our sins are to the sky, yet God clearly lays them out in our hearts and in the law. If it was so impossible to walk righteously, blamelessly why does Paul continually call Timothy to do exactly this. Why does Peter and John talk about a correct walk, yet if we fail we still find forgiveness in the Lord through confession.

There is one fantastic reality that is being expressed. Jesus's love is vast, overflowing, wonderful. But is is wonderful when it possesses our souls we are cleansed and purified. What time and again testifies to me is these people do not know this love, and their words continually call others lying, insulting, abusive when all they are saying is what people believe and what they have said. It is a sad testimony that those who claim such superiority in understanding of the Lord, condemn others to Hell, are so quick to confess they sin continually, fail to walk correctly and act as if this is to be expected in the believer who is mature in Christ.

This is not the fruits I expect from a Christ filled believer, rather a holy and pure walk, an example to others in words and action. But maybe this is too much to ask from believers who freely confess they walk in the flesh daily.

I forgot. They lie about others and what they believe and have to deny they believe or teach the things they do. Here we have proof.

People like me has never hated the term a sinner saved by grace. All you do is continually prove you have utterly no idea what people like me believe.

So do us a favor please. Stop trying, it is obvious after weeks of debate, you have no desire to try to figure out what we believe.

 

[gb9]

come on e.g. , they know what we believe, they tell us what we believe everyday!!!

 

[roaringkitten]

People who deny the work of God in saving souls, making the alive doing what he promised to do (making them perfect as he sanctifies them) and saving forever those who are lost, are the ones who are an enemy of God.

They do not understand the word of God. nor are they following the spirit. they are following satan

The blood of Jesus is a pesky thing to them, it gets in the way of their salvation by works teaching. The work of redemption is finished. Everything that needed to be done for salvation was completed by the blood of the Lamb. We don't work FOR our salvation, we work out our own salvation in gratitude to the free gift He gave us!

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12

Oh and btw, obedience to Christ is a work as this Scripture demonstrates, for one cannot be obedient to Christ without working! So those who say obedience to Christ is a condition for salvation is really saying works are required for salvation. Grace believers say obedience to Christ is critical and important to maintaining our fellowship with the Lord! We always advocate this:

"This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men." Titus 3:8

And I will say this, to those who say that grace gives us a license to sin(but I have seen none on CC), they're just as much enemies of grace, as those who teach salvation by works!

 

[phil112]

............................. So those who say obedience to Christ is a condition for salvation is really saying works are required for salvation. .......................

Why do you insist on twisting everything related to the bible? It's either twisting scripture or twisting what someone says about scripture.
I have said if you decide to disobey Jesus, decide to walk in the flesh as a habit again, you will backslide.
I said repentance is what is required for salvation.
Which makes what you said a lie. And since this is something that you have repeated, in some form or another, I'm beginning to believe you're a liar.
Liars, if they are saved, won't be saved for long if they keep lying.

Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds

But then since you can't quit lying, since you refuse to quit sinning, since you have decided to be disobedient to God, apparently you have backslid..........that is if, you were ever saved.

 

[phil112]

I forgot about Phil here. He will think he is mighty and righteous, and has earned the right to be called Gods children.

The rest of us We will rejoice,..............................

You are a liar. I have never thought either and I will never think either. You osas sinners have dragged you conservation down to blatant lies now.
I simply point out that the bible says people will rejoice. You claim they will be ashamed in heaven. That is blasphemy.
You are adding to the word of God.
You people have now put yourself at the lowest level I have seen on this forum. Your posts have degraded to so much lies and nonsense. You disgust me. People like you are the reason I have resisted being called christian. I never want to be grouped with people that sin constantly, repent constantly, with sinners, like you.

 

[Chuckt]

The blood of Jesus is a pesky thing to them, it gets in the way of their salvation by works teaching. The work of redemption is finished. Everything that needed to be done for salvation was completed by the blood of the Lamb. We don't work FOR our salvation, we work out our own salvation in gratitude to the free gift He gave us!

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12

Oh and btw, obedience to Christ is a work as this Scripture demonstrates, for one cannot be obedient to Christ without working! So those who say obedience to Christ is a condition for salvation is really saying works are required for salvation. Grace believers say obedience to Christ is critical and important to maintaining our fellowship with the Lord! We always advocate this:

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Wherefore, my beloved,.... This is an inference from the instance and example of Christ; that since he, who was God over all, blessed for ever, made himself so low in human nature, in which he is now so highly exalted, having done the work and business he came about with such condescension, humility, and meekness; therefore it becomes those who profess to be his followers, to do all their affairs as men and Christians, with, and among one another, in all lowliness of mind. The apostle calls the saints here, "my beloved", he having a strong affection for them, which he frequently expresses in this epistle; and he chooses to make use of such an endearing appellation, that it might be observed, that what he was about to say to them sprung from pure love to them, and a hearty desire for their welfare, and from no other end, and with no other view; and to encourage them to go on in a course of humble duty, he commends them for their former obedience,

as ye have always obeyed; not "me", as the Arabic and Ethiopic versions supply; but either God, acting according to his revealed will, they had knowledge of; or Christ, by receiving him as prophet, priest, and King, by submitting to his righteousness, and the sceptre of his grace; or the Gospel, by embracing the truths of it, professing them, and abiding in them, and by subjecting to the ordinances of it, and doing all things whatsoever Christ has commanded: and this they did "always"; they were always abounding in the works of the Lord, doing his will; they abode by Christ, and continued steadfastly in his doctrines, and kept the ordinances as they were delivered to them, and walked in all the commandments of the Lord blameless,

Not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence; which clause may either be referred to the foregoing, which expresses their obedience; and so signifies that that was carefully and cheerfully performed, not only while the apostle was with them, but now when he was absent from them, and much more when absent than present:, which shows, that they were not eye servants, and menpleasers, but what they did they did sincerely and heartily, as to the Lord: or to the following exhortation, that they would attend to it; not only as they had done when he was among them, of which he was witness, but that they would much more do so now he was absent from them, namely,

work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; which is to be understood not in such a sense as though men could obtain and procure for themselves spiritual and eternal salvation by their own works and doings; for such a sense is contrary to the Scriptures, which deny any part of salvation, as election, justification, and calling, and the whole of it to be of works, but ascribe it to the free grace of God; and is also repugnant to the perfections of God, as his wisdom, grace, and righteousness; for where are the wisdom and love of God, in forming a scheme of salvation, and sending his Son to effect it, and after all it is left to men to work it out for themselves? and where is the justice of God in admitting of an imperfect righteousness in the room of a perfect one, which must be the case, if salvation is obtained by men's works? for these are imperfect, even the best of them; and is another reason against this sense of the passage; and were they perfect, they could not be meritorious of salvation, for the requisites of merits are wanting in them. Moreover, was salvation to be obtained by the works of men, these consequences would follow; the death of Christ would be in vain, boasting would be encouraged in men, they would have whereof to glory, and their obligations to obedience taken from the love of God, and redemption by Christ, would be weakened and destroyed: add to all this, that the Scriptures assure us, that salvation is alone by Christ; and that it is already finished by him, and not to be wrought out now by him, or any other; and that such is the weakness and impotence of men, even of believers, to whom this exhortation is directed, that it is impossible for them ever to affect it; therefore, whatever sense these words have, we may be sure that this can never possibly be the sense of them. The words may be rendered, "work about your salvation"; employ yourselves in things which accompany salvation, and to be performed by all those that expect it, though not to be expected for the performance of them; such as hearing of the word, submission to Gospel ordinances, and a discharge of every branch of moral, spiritual, and evangelical obedience for which the apostle before commends them, and now exhorts them to continue in; to go on in a course of cheerful obedience to the close of their days, believing in Christ, obeying his Gospel, attending constantly to his word and ordinances, and discharging every duty in faith and fear, until at last they should receive the end of their faith, the salvation of their souls: agreeably the Syriac version renders the words, , "do the work", or "business of your lives"; the work you are to do in your generation, which God has prescribed and directed you to, which the grace of God teaches, and the love of Christ constrains to. Do all that "with fear and trembling"; not with a slavish fear of hell and damnation, or lest they should fall away, or finally miscarry of heaven and happiness; since this would be a distrust of the power and faithfulness of God, and so criminal in them; nor is it reasonable to suppose, that the apostle would exhort to such a fear, when he himself was so confidently assured, that the good work begun in them would be performed; and besides, the exhortation would be very oddly formed, if this was the sense, "work out your salvation with fear" of damnation: but this fear and trembling spoken of, is such as is consistent with the highest acts of faith, trust, confidence, and joy, and is opposed to pride and vain glory; see Psalm 2:11; and intends modesty and humility, which is what the apostle is pressing for throughout the whole context; and here urges to a cheerful and constant obedience to Christ, with all humility of soul, without dependence on it, or vain glorying in it, but ascribing it wholly to the grace of God, for the following reason.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

 

[Desdichado]

"Once saved always saved" while true literally, is a doctrine transplanted from one theological system to cover up the deficiencies in another. The idea of it is to provide the comfort of blessed assurance without believing the necessary corollaries. It is not typically applied in a consistent theological framework and, in so doing, violates the Law of Non-contradiction.

This is why many Evangelicals affirm the truth of the saying, but frequently question it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are a liar. I have never thought either and I will never think either. You osas sinners have dragged you conservation down to blatant lies now.

So you lie? Osas sinner? I am no more a sinner than you are my friend

I simply point out that the bible says people will rejoice. You claim they will be ashamed in heaven. That is blasphemy.
You are adding to the word of God.

I stated the truth. You will see yourself as you are (how much of a sinner you are)

For those of us in Christ, We will rejoice.. After we realise how sinful we were. it will cause us to appreciate God more.

You people have now put yourself at the lowest level I have seen on this forum. Your posts have degraded to so much lies and nonsense. You disgust me. People like you are the reason I have resisted being called christian. I never want to be grouped with people that sin constantly, repent constantly, with sinners, like you.

You mean sinners like us? (you and I)

I am no more a sinner than you are. If you knew God, you would realise this.

 

[roaringkitten]

Why do you insist on twisting everything related to the bible? It's either twisting scripture or twisting what someone says about scripture. I have said if you decide to disobey Jesus, decide to walk in the flesh as a habit again, you will backslide.

Phil, you have said:

You folks that claim obedience is a work and you can't be saved doing works are the real legalists.
Disobedience is a work of sin and you can darn sure go to hell doing works of sin. You keep trying to parse obedience and make it into a work and doing so makes you obedient to satan.
If you're not for Christ you're against Him. You people better stop trying to justify your refusal to stop sinning. It will send you to the second death if you aren't careful.

Phil, you didn't only say that those who disobey Christ will backslide...you also said those who disobey Christ can "darn sure" go to hell! So stop being dishonest.

You also say disobedience is a work of sin. What does that make obedience? A work of righteousness! What you are advocating, whether you realize it or not is that one who fails to do works of righteousness will go to hell, because they were disobedient. What does the Bible teach?

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5

 

[roaringkitten]

You are a liar. I have never thought either and I will never think either. You osas sinners have dragged you conservation down to blatant lies now.
I simply point out that the bible says people will rejoice. You claim they will be ashamed in heaven. That is blasphemy.
You are adding to the word of God.
You people have now put yourself at the lowest level I have seen on this forum. Your posts have degraded to so much lies and nonsense. You disgust me. People like you are the reason I have resisted being called christian. I never want to be grouped with people that sin constantly, repent constantly, with sinners, like you.

"you osas sinners"
"sinners like you"

Luke 18:

9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

It is only by God's mercy we aren't thrown in the fires of hell. Think about what you just said!

 

[Chuckt]

Phil, you have said:



Phil, you didn't only say that those who disobey Christ will backslide...you also said those who disobey Christ can "darn sure" go to hell! So stop being dishonest.

You also say disobedience is a work of sin. What does that make obedience? A work of righteousness! What you are advocating, whether you realize it or not is that one who fails to do works of righteousness will go to hell, because they were disobedient. What does the Bible teach?

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5

My Bible says the righteous falleth seven times and the righteous man gets back up again.

Proverbs 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Doesn't say he goes to hell.

 

[mailmandan]

Oh and btw, obedience to Christ is a work as this Scripture demonstrates, for one cannot be obedient to Christ without working! So those who say obedience to Christ is a condition for salvation is really saying works are required for salvation.

Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago, this was a major hang up for me. I basically defined faith as "obedience to Christ." In other words, the way I erroneously understand it [as an unbeliever] was, faith "is" baptism, faith "is" multiple acts of obedience, faith "is" works, which is completely false and equates to salvation by works! Although choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that saves (Romans 1:16: 10:16), multiple acts of obedience/good works which "follow" are the "fruit" of faith and not the essence of faith.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago, this was a major hang up for me. I basically defined faith as "obedience to Christ." In other words, the way I erroneously understand it [as an unbeliever] was, faith "is" baptism, faith "is" multiple acts of obedience, faith "is" works, which is completely false and equates to salvation by works! Although choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that saves (Romans 1:16: 10:16), multiple acts of obedience/good works which "follow" are the "fruit" of faith and not the essence of faith.

Work, fruit. Seems like folks are just getting hung up on a word. Some "fruit" doesn't just happen. It's work.

 

[mailmandan]

Work, fruit. Seems like folks are just getting hung up on a word. Some "fruit" doesn't just happen. It's work.

What too many folks get hung up on is salvation by works. Although some "fruit" doesn't just happen and takes work, we are still saved through faith and not by works. Also, although all genuine Christians are "fruitful," not all genuine Christians are "equally" fruitful.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What too many folks get hung up on is salvation by works. Although some "fruit" doesn't just happen and takes work, we are still saved through faith and not by works. Also, although all genuine Christians are "fruitful," not all genuine Christians are "equally" fruitful.

It helps me to understand your Catholic background. It seems the obsession about denying the need for works is coming from those who have been hurt and damaged by religion.

 

[mailmandan]

It helps me to understand your Catholic background. It seems the obsession about denying the need for works is coming from those who have been hurt and damaged by religion.

Denying the need for works? We are not saved by works, but FOR good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Those damaged by religion (false religion) have been taught that salvation is by works, contrary to Ephesians 2:8,9.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Denying the need for works? We are not saved by works, but FOR good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Those damaged by religion (false religion) have been taught that salvation is by works, contrary to Ephesians 2:8,9.

I love the "need for works" equation.

They preach they do not teach salvation by works, yet always say there is a need for works"

I also find it amazing he says he knows what you come from now (He seems to think he knows everything about us) when he is blind to the fact he is a catholic himself. He may not follow all the sacraments needed for salvation (ie baptism, eucharist, etc etc) but his salvation is just as much a works based as their is.. based on the same "faith working in love" mentality you spoke of.