One God Worship

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SteveEpperson

Junior Member
May 12, 2018
287
125
43
#2
In the name of Jesus, I Reject Your Link.

Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, and the Father are one God:

My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; no one will snatch them from my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them from my Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one.”

The Jewish leaders picked up rocks again to stone him to death. 32 Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good deeds from the Father. For which one of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jewish leaders replied, “We are not going to stone you for a good deed but for blasphemy because you, a man, are claiming to be God.”

Since algorithms and bots cannot discern what truth is and what apostasy is, I will personally ask you to refrain from recruiting for the JWs here. Thanks in advance.
 

williamjordan

Senior Member
Feb 18, 2015
222
28
28
#3
You posted a Unitarian (of the Socinian persuation) website. What exactly is the purpose of posting it? Is there a particular text you'd like to discuss? I read through several articles in the "Common Verses" section, particularly in regards to John 1:1 and am less than impressed. It seems like the administrator of the One God Worship website is regurgitating information from Anthony Buzzard. The articles on John 1:1 can easily be dismantled. I'd like to talk about it if you have time.
 

williamjordan

Senior Member
Feb 18, 2015
222
28
28
#4
In the name of Jesus, I Reject Your Link.

Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, and the Father are one God:

My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; no one will snatch them from my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them from my Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one.”

The Jewish leaders picked up rocks again to stone him to death. 32 Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good deeds from the Father. For which one of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jewish leaders replied, “We are not going to stone you for a good deed but for blasphemy because you, a man, are claiming to be God.”

Since algorithms and bots cannot discern what truth is and what apostasy is, I will personally ask you to refrain from recruiting for the JWs here. Thanks in advance.
The link is not a JW website. It is a Socinian website. JW's are not Socinian. Socinians do not believe in the preexistence of Jesus, while the JW's do.
 

SteveEpperson

Junior Member
May 12, 2018
287
125
43
#5
The link is not a JW website. It is a Socinian website. JW's are not Socinian. Socinians do not believe in the preexistence of Jesus, while the JW's do.
I don't care what name it goes by, it is from my God's enemy, Satan. And I rebuke it, in Jesus' name.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,533
2,796
113
#6
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice how he covers more than one aspect ? Counselor , the prince , the everlasting father the mighty God these are all speaking of Jesus he’s everything that shod is to mankind made plain and known in the gospel to everyone who believes no one had ever seen him because he was a spirit but then he swore to come and reveal himself to us in Jesus the begotten son of God


“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice how Jesus acknowledges Thomas confession ? Instead of rejecting this like any other heavenly being does when people mistake them for God ? Jesus says to Thomas confession “ my lord and my God “ jesus approves and says “ you believe because you see and touch me but those who believe without seeing me are blessed moreso “

The Bible is a progressive story when it begins Jesus is hidden like this

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1,

we know that is Jesus because of the gospel we are commanded to hear and believe

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We can see here that god the creator in the very first verse is Jesus and later in the gospel he did this remembering this

“the Word was God.”

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we can acknowledge Jesus is the creator like it says there or here

“for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

and he is before all things, and by him all things consist. ( all thkngs were created and exist for God alone the only true God is one and he’s been revealed to us in Jesus Christ )

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:16-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The language of father and son and the rwason people think they are two people is because while Jesus was on earth he was fully a man so this requires him to take our porsition being made himself subject to God like we are he had to really be a man a perfect man and go through what we do

a when he was on earth he’s showing us the perfect example of what man is made to be his children reflection of God. In earth like Jesus was when he came

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a there’s a verse here explaining when a person receives the spirit

“At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, ( father )

and ye in me,( son)

and I in you.”( holy ghost )
‭‭John‬ ‭14:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

At he son of God that message is about us becoming his children through faith in him

a he was hidden in the ot made known in the new like this this is Jesus in Eden

“And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭

It’s just that his name hasn’t been made known because he hasn’t become flesh yet and made it known

It’s there there though it’s hidden again like this

“And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We now in the New Testament know his name and can call upon him too they did too it’s what made them his sons

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12‬ ‭

but it’s hidden in the law of Moses it’s meant to be there’s a cloak or a veil
Hiding certain things about God in the Old Testament

“but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you notice how the Old Testament always hides God like on Sinai he’s hidden behind a pillar of fire and smoke and tempest no one ever speaks of the name Jesus but clearly scripture tells us Jesus is God e same who created the heavens and earth and later revealed himself when he came to earth

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In other words the son of God is about teaching us this understanding


“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It’s one God who has shown himself three ways to mankind the invisible and unknowable father shown in the ot , the manifest son of God in the New Testament and the holt ghost who dwells in us it’s just one God who’s able to be everything we need

This is God speaking through the prophets

“Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭48:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is Jesus speaking to John after the resurrection and ascention to heaven after he overcame death for us

“And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:17-18‬ ‭

this os one God becoming and providing everything we need for salvation remember this ?

“And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭3:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And remember these ?

“And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. I am that bread of life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:35, 48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:7, 9, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s about twenty of those Jesus saying I am this necassary thing you need and I am that necassary thing

“Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We know the only saviors name

“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And the lords name

“and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the ot is like seeing a silloette shadows on a sheet with light behind them , it’s Jesus the lord speaking but it’s hidden we can see this without any doubt when we start looking from the gospel back at what he was saying
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,533
2,796
113
#7
This is just finishing what I was offering

Jesus was talking about being the good shepherd because of this he’s making this claim saying “that’s me “

“The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. and the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it…. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:3, 5, 8-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

agoan jesus is how we know how wonderful and amazing our God is how much he loves us how much he actually cares to save us from our own sins it’s how God has shown himself to us , by offering us the gospel of Jesus Christ his only begotten son the only time God ever was manifest in the flesh is when Jesus walked among us

its confusing because we forget th re are two realms of creation heaven and earth Jesus is when God came to earth in the flesh

At he father can’t be seen because he’s a spirit we see him by looking at Jesus who became flesh so we could know him
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
7,418
3,308
113
#8
In the name of Jesus, I Reject Your Link.

Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, and the Father are one God:

My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; no one will snatch them from my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them from my Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one.”

The Jewish leaders picked up rocks again to stone him to death. 32 Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good deeds from the Father. For which one of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jewish leaders replied, “We are not going to stone you for a good deed but for blasphemy because you, a man, are claiming to be God.”

Since algorithms and bots cannot discern what truth is and what apostasy is, I will personally ask you to refrain from recruiting for the JWs here. Thanks in advance.
would you mind pointing out what in particular is wrong in Walter’s link that merited a rebuke in Jesus’ name?

I see you provided a passage and bolded a verse that I assume is key to you in some way, but I’m not sure what that is exactly.

Please note, the false accusation made against Jesus was a pretense to stone Him and it wasn’t because He outright claimed to be Lord God Almighty. The Jews interpreted “I and my Father are one” to mean that Jesus was claiming to be God, but that isn’t exactly what He said. He claimed to be God’s Son, but they didn’t want to hear any of that by then.

Here’s a snippet from Jesus’ prayer that should clear up what He was talking about exactly:

John 17 KJV
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

When Jesus is referring to His disciples all being “one” and “one in us” He wasn’t saying that they become God when they are one in them. He’s talking about the spiritual union that comes from belief and obedience to Jesus as Lord.

To be one with Jesus is a very good place to be and it will shelter us from the wrath of God in the end, but being one with Jesus doesn’t make us Jesus anymore than Jesus being one with His Father made Jesus His Father.

Make a bit more sense now? This isn’t milk of the word and Christians sometimes go their whole life missing this crucial understanding of the Trinity.

God bless.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
3,075
1,824
113
Texas
#9
It seems the purpose of that website is to deny the divinity of Jesus in a very subversive way. Its articles are poorly written and are very poor attempts at dismissing many scriptures. Even a very elementary Bible reader can easily dismantle the arguements made by these articles.
How very sad.
 

williamjordan

Senior Member
Feb 18, 2015
222
28
28
#11
would you mind pointing out what in particular is wrong in Walter’s link that merited a rebuke in Jesus’ name?

I see you provided a passage and bolded a verse that I assume is key to you in some way, but I’m not sure what that is exactly.

Please note, the false accusation made against Jesus was a pretense to stone Him and it wasn’t because He outright claimed to be Lord God Almighty. The Jews interpreted “I and my Father are one” to mean that Jesus was claiming to be God, but that isn’t exactly what He said. He claimed to be God’s Son, but they didn’t want to hear any of that by then.

Here’s a snippet from Jesus’ prayer that should clear up what He was talking about exactly:

John 17 KJV
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

When Jesus is referring to His disciples all being “one” and “one in us” He wasn’t saying that they become God when they are one in them. He’s talking about the spiritual union that comes from belief and obedience to Jesus as Lord.

To be one with Jesus is a very good place to be and it will shelter us from the wrath of God in the end, but being one with Jesus doesn’t make us Jesus anymore than Jesus being one with His Father made Jesus His Father.

Make a bit more sense now? This isn’t milk of the word and Christians sometimes go their whole life missing this crucial understanding of the Trinity.

God bless.
The Jews did not make a false pretense in John 10:33, and there's nothing in the context to suggest that is the case. How many times in the discourse does Jesus call God, "Father"? Are you suggesting that the Jews stood around with their fingers in their ears? The Jews heard Jesus loud and clear, and knew what Jesus was claiming by calling God His own Father. Unfortunately, you miss the point.

Pay particular attention to v. 36. Because Jesus actually reiterates and clarifies what the Jews are accusing Him of in v. 33 — “you say… ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” Jesus is not correcting the Jews, rather, He restates what the Jews are already accusing Him of: blasphemy for claiming to be “the Son of God,” which is equivocal with “making Himself equal with God” (cf. John 5:18, 19:7). So it’s not that the Jews understood Jesus “incorrectly” in v. 33.

In John 19:7, the Jews indicate that Jesus claimed to be “the Son of God” and for this reason, He deserved death. This alone should tell us about Jesus’ very own application of such title — “the Son of God.” But more to the point, this coincides with what is said earlier in John, as there is a direct correlation between the words spoken in John 19:7 and those in John 5:18 (“For this reason they tried all the more to kill Him; not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God”), and John 10:25-33.

Jesus’ application of the title “Son of God” carries with it its fair share of nuances, but might I suggest that one of the more prominent nuances in NT usage is an extremely Jewish one? What I mean by that, is that the “Son of God” epithet is used frequently of the Davidic King, who is God’s vicar, God’s “right hand man,” who mediates God’s presence, and is in that sense (by way of extension), “equal with God.” But I also understand that Jesus’ application of such title runs even deeper than that of the Davidic King motif, for even the Jews of Jesus’ day understood Jesus’ application (what I would consider a more personal application), as going beyond the scope of what any man could rightfully claim for themselves without the charge of blasphemy being brought against them (hence the, “you being a man make yourself out to be” tid bit).

In both, John 5 and John 10, Jesus acts as God acts — in inseparable union — “For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. But He answered them, ‘My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.’” Jesus uses the present middle indicative for the word “work,” which indicates a presence of past action still in progress. Just as the sustainer of all things (God the Father) continues to work (throughout history) and is thereby exempt from the rules of the Sabbath, in this same manner, Jesus too has been working (hence, 5:18). Jesus’ works are co-extensive with the Father’s. Thusly, Jesus’ application of “the Son of God” epithet of Himself, is intrinsically tied (in a facet of ways) to the idea of Him being “one with” and “equal to,” God. And as in John 5, it is this application in John 10 that leads His Jewish audience to react in such manner.

Given the echoes of Ps. 95 and Deut. 32 in the John 10 discourse, might I suggest that the anarthrous θεὸν in v. 33 is probably best understood — by no means as indefinite — but as qualitative (i.e., “Who died and made you God?” or “Who made you [equal with] God?”), and therefore understood as a reference to Jesus’ equality with God (as in John 5:18), as Jesus claims to do the very prerogatives of God (as he does in John 5);

“My sheep hear my voice, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand...' For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be [equal with] God" (John 10:25–33)​
The words that Jesus utters in vv. 27–28 — “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand” — are of particular interest. For not only do these words echo that of Psalm 95, but the contextual setting in which they apply run parallel to one another,

For He is our God,​
And we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand.​
Today, if you would hear His voice,​
Do not harden your hearts, as at Meribah,​
As in the day of Massah in the wilderness,​
“When your fathers tested Me,​
They tried Me, though they had seen My work.​
“For forty years I loathed that generation,​
And said they are a people who err in their heart,​
And they do not know My ways.​
“Therefore I swore in My anger,​
Truly they shall not enter into My rest.” (Psalm 95:7-11, NASB)​
Make the connections: John 10:27 (“My sheep hear My voice”) parallels Ps. 95:7 (“Today, if you would hear His voice”). John 10:28 (“My sheep… no one will snatch them out of My hand”) also parallels Ps. 95:7 (“we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand”). John 10:28 also parallels Deuteronomy 32:39 (“there is none that can deliver out of My hand”) and Isaiah 43:13 (“none can deliver from My hand”). John 10:32 (“I showed you many good works”) parallels Ps. 95:9 (“They tried Me, though they had seen My work”).
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,533
2,796
113
#13
GOD proclaimed Jesus His Son at the very beginning of His earthly ministry.
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:1, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: Be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

Serve the LORD with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, When his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭2:7-12‬ ‭KJV‬

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods promises came to pass and we’re being fulfilled when he began his ministry what God promised was being manifest in the earth

the prophecy

“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles”

I will declare ( in the future ) the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. “

The fulfillment

“and the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:22‬ ‭

It’s the design of the Bible thenorophets foretold and the gospel fulfills and we hear and believe

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭


“God was manifest in the flesh,”

that fulfills this foretelling of the sons birth

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. “

“received up into glory.”

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭

The words God promised long before come to pass in the gospel. God became one of us , took our place in the equation overcame sin and death as a man , died without sin to pay the price for our sins , is preached to all nations , believes upon in the world was caught up to Gods throne of glory Gods name is Jesus he is the father son and Holy Ghost in one person

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he is indeed the promised son of God the messiah , the son is God made flesh.

The holy spirit is Jesus the sons spirit it’s why we can rightfully call him father

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:13‬ ‭


“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:9‬ ‭

The spirit of God is the spirit of Jesus the son the holy spirit


“And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And will be a Father unto you, And ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭6:16, 18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭22:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The father son and Holy Ghost are one

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭

“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a that means tbey we’re baptized in the name of the father , son and Holy Ghost the name of Jesus the son of God who is the true God of all things manifest to Mankind

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we understood what it means to be the only Begotten son of God based on what God foretold beforehand we would
Know jesusnis the fullness and complete person of God the father son and holt ghost in one body one man one name
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
7,418
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#14
The Jews did not make a false pretense in John 10:33, and there's nothing in the context to suggest that is the case. How many times in the discourse does Jesus call God, "Father"? Are you suggesting that the Jews stood around with their fingers in their ears? The Jews heard Jesus loud and clear, and knew what Jesus was claiming by calling God His own Father. Unfortunately, you miss the point.

Pay particular attention to v. 36. Because Jesus actually reiterates and clarifies what the Jews are accusing Him of in v. 33 — “you say… ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” Jesus is not correcting the Jews, rather, He restates what the Jews are already accusing Him of: blasphemy for claiming to be “the Son of God,” which is equivocal with “making Himself equal with God” (cf. John 5:18, 19:7). So it’s not that the Jews understood Jesus “incorrectly” in v. 33.

In John 19:7, the Jews indicate that Jesus claimed to be “the Son of God” and for this reason, He deserved death. This alone should tell us about Jesus’ very own application of such title — “the Son of God.” But more to the point, this coincides with what is said earlier in John, as there is a direct correlation between the words spoken in John 19:7 and those in John 5:18 (“For this reason they tried all the more to kill Him; not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God”), and John 10:25-33.

Jesus’ application of the title “Son of God” carries with it its fair share of nuances, but might I suggest that one of the more prominent nuances in NT usage is an extremely Jewish one? What I mean by that, is that the “Son of God” epithet is used frequently of the Davidic King, who is God’s vicar, God’s “right hand man,” who mediates God’s presence, and is in that sense (by way of extension), “equal with God.” But I also understand that Jesus’ application of such title runs even deeper than that of the Davidic King motif, for even the Jews of Jesus’ day understood Jesus’ application (what I would consider a more personal application), as going beyond the scope of what any man could rightfully claim for themselves without the charge of blasphemy being brought against them (hence the, “you being a man make yourself out to be” tid bit).

In both, John 5 and John 10, Jesus acts as God acts — in inseparable union — “For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. But He answered them, ‘My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.’” Jesus uses the present middle indicative for the word “work,” which indicates a presence of past action still in progress. Just as the sustainer of all things (God the Father) continues to work (throughout history) and is thereby exempt from the rules of the Sabbath, in this same manner, Jesus too has been working (hence, 5:18). Jesus’ works are co-extensive with the Father’s. Thusly, Jesus’ application of “the Son of God” epithet of Himself, is intrinsically tied (in a facet of ways) to the idea of Him being “one with” and “equal to,” God. And as in John 5, it is this application in John 10 that leads His Jewish audience to react in such manner.

Given the echoes of Ps. 95 and Deut. 32 in the John 10 discourse, might I suggest that the anarthrous θεὸν in v. 33 is probably best understood — by no means as indefinite — but as qualitative (i.e., “Who died and made you God?” or “Who made you [equal with] God?”), and therefore understood as a reference to Jesus’ equality with God (as in John 5:18), as Jesus claims to do the very prerogatives of God (as he does in John 5);

“My sheep hear my voice, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand...' For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be [equal with] God" (John 10:25–33)​
The words that Jesus utters in vv. 27–28 — “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand” — are of particular interest. For not only do these words echo that of Psalm 95, but the contextual setting in which they apply run parallel to one another,

For He is our God,​
And we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand.​
Today, if you would hear His voice,​
Do not harden your hearts, as at Meribah,​
As in the day of Massah in the wilderness,​
“When your fathers tested Me,​
They tried Me, though they had seen My work.​
“For forty years I loathed that generation,​
And said they are a people who err in their heart,​
And they do not know My ways.​
“Therefore I swore in My anger,​
Truly they shall not enter into My rest.” (Psalm 95:7-11, NASB)​
Make the connections: John 10:27 (“My sheep hear My voice”) parallels Ps. 95:7 (“Today, if you would hear His voice”). John 10:28 (“My sheep… no one will snatch them out of My hand”) also parallels Ps. 95:7 (“we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand”). John 10:28 also parallels Deuteronomy 32:39 (“there is none that can deliver out of My hand”) and Isaiah 43:13 (“none can deliver from My hand”). John 10:32 (“I showed you many good works”) parallels Ps. 95:9 (“They tried Me, though they had seen My work”).
What’s different from the words of His accusers and the words of Jesus is that He didn’t claim to be God in those verses. That means the ones who are not telling the truth are His accusers. He claimed to be God’s Son.

They may have rightly understood that to mean Jesus was equal to God in the sense He was perfectly sinless, but they took that a step further because they were looking for a reason to stone Him.

Jesus did everything He saw His Father do and that made Him one with God. We believe in Jesus and do everything we see Him do and that makes us one with Jesus. It isn’t that we are literally perfectly sinless, but rather we receive substitutionary righteousness through Christ and become viewed as without sin in a legal sense.

This verse seems to sum it up pretty good.

2 Cor. 5:21
21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
 

williamjordan

Senior Member
Feb 18, 2015
222
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#15
What’s different from the words of His accusers and the words of Jesus is that He didn’t claim to be God in those verses. That means the ones who are not telling the truth are His accusers. He claimed to be God’s Son.

They may have rightly understood that to mean Jesus was equal to God in the sense He was perfectly sinless, but they took that a step further because they were looking for a reason to stone Him.

Jesus did everything He saw His Father do and that made Him one with God. We believe in Jesus and do everything we see Him do and that makes us one with Jesus. It isn’t that we are literally perfectly sinless, but rather we receive substitutionary righteousness through Christ and become viewed as without sin in a legal sense.

This verse seems to sum it up pretty good.

2 Cor. 5:21
21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Jesus' claim to be "the Son of God" is the reason the Jews attempt to stone Him, hence Mark 14:61-64,

Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” Tearing his clothes, the high priest said, “What further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?” And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death.
And again in John 19:7,

The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God.”
The Jews did not falsely accuse Jesus of being God, but understood "the Son of God" title in a way that places Him on par with God. In the John 10 discourse Jesus calls God His own "Father" at least seven times prior to the events that lead up to v. 31. What are the implications of Jesus calling God, "Father"? John 5 has the answer, "For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."

The Jews thought of Jesus as no more than a man who claimed for Himself an exalted status. Comparably, there is an interesting account found in the intertestamental literature of 2 Macc. 9:12, where Antiochus IV Epiphanes acclaimed such a status for Himself,

And when he himself could not now abide his own stench, he spoke thus: It is just to be subject to God, and that a mortal man should not equal himself to God.
What the OT says about YHWH in Psalm 95, Jesus alludes to and attributes to Himself. You can go back to the previous post to see the allusions. The precise language underlying John 10:28 parallels that of Isaiah 43:13 LXX and Deuteronomy 32:39 LXX,

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one can snatch them out of My hand (καὶ οὐχ ἁρπάσει τις αὐτὰ ἐκ τῆς χειρός μου) (John 10:27-28)
“Even from eternity I Am, and there is none who can deliver out of My hand (καὶ οὐχ ἔστιν ὁ ἐκ τῶν χειρῶν μου ἐξαιρούμενος); I act and who can reverse it?” (Isaiah 43:13 LXX)
This language found on the lips of Jesus comes from contexts (i.e., Isaiah 43:13, Deut. 32:39), which speak of YHWH alone being God.

Behold, behold that I am (ἐγώ εἰμι),
And there is no god besides Me.
I kill, and I will make alive;
I will smite, and I will heal;
And there is no one who shall deliver out of My hand (καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν ὃς ἐξελεῖται ἐκ τῶν χειρῶν μου). (Deut. 32:39 LXX)
The association with the Feast of Tabernacles and the Feast of Dedication (also known as “Second Tabernacles”) provides us with some context to Jesus’ statements. Jesus’ run in with the Jews unfolds at the heel of the Feast of Tabernacles (John 7:1-10:21); the very occasion Ps. 95 and Deut. 32 would have been sung by the congregations of Israel (Deut. 31:21-32:43). Given this context, Jesus' words would resonate with His audience. They hear Jesus attributing language to Himself that Deut. 32:39 attributes to God. Elsewhere the NT authors utilize language from Deut. 32 with reference to Jesus; therefore, it is not so strange to find Jesus doing this very thing.

For example, the question raised in 1 Corinthians 10:21-22 (“Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy?”) is an allusion to the Song of Moses (Deut. 32:21, “They have provoked me to jealousy with what is no god”), the very place Paul alludes to when he speaks of Christ as “the rock” (cf. Deut. 32:4, 15, 18, 31). Of course, Paul’s reference to “the Lord” (1 Cor. 10:22) is a reference to Jesus. The “cup of the Lord” and “table of the Lord” are a reference to the Lord’s Supper (cf. 1 Corinthians 11:27-28, 10:16-17). On this point, there is an interesting parallel found in Malachi 1:7-12, where “the table of the Lord” expression is used for the altar which the prophet Malachi warned against defiling, something the Corinthians were also warned against by Paul.

Another example is found in Hebrews 1:6, where the author attributes language from Deut. 32:43 LXX to speak of the worship due to Jesus:

καὶ προσκυνησάτωσαν αὐτῷ πάντες ἄγγελοι θεοῦ (Deut. 32:43 LXX)
καὶ προσκυνησάτωσαν αὐτῷ πάντες ἄγγελοι θεοῦ (Hebrews 1:6)
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
7,418
3,308
113
#16
Jesus' claim to be "the Son of God" is the reason the Jews attempt to stone Him, hence Mark 14:61-64,



And again in John 19:7,
Claiming to be the Son of God or a son of God isn’t a problem, nor is it blasphemy, but in the verses you mentioned it was used as a false accusation for blasphemy.

As seen in John 8, the very Pharisees who condemned Him to death for blasphemy for saying He is the Son of God, also referred to themselves as sons of God.

John 8
41You are doing the works of your father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they declared. “Our only Father is God Himself.”

So claiming to be a son of God isn’t the same thing as claiming to be God which is something the Pharisees desperately wanted Jesus to say, but He never outright said it because Jesus isn’t the Father. Jesus is the proper Son of God and received His power and authority from God.

Verse for consideration:

1 Cor. 15
27For he “has put everything under his feet.” c Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

The Jews did not falsely accuse Jesus of being God, but understood "the Son of God" title in a way that places Him on par with God. In the John 10 discourse Jesus calls God His own "Father" at least seven times prior to the events that lead up to v. 31. What are the implications of Jesus calling God, "Father"? John 5 has the answer, "For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."
It was definitely a false accusation to take leaps and bounds from being the Son of God to laying on Him the false charge of claiming to be His Father. John 8:41 exposes the double standard, hypocrisy, and cunningness of the Pharisees to manipulate words and tell lies in order to achieve the result they were seeking: the death of Jesus.

[QUOTW]This language found on the lips of Jesus comes from contexts (i.e., Isaiah 43:13, Deut. 32:39), which speak of YHWH alone being God.[/QUOTE]
agreed





For example, the question raised in 1 Corinthians 10:21-22 (“Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy?”) is an allusion to the Song of Moses (Deut. 32:21, “They have provoked me to jealousy with what is no god”), the very place Paul alludes to when he speaks of Christ as “the rock” (cf. Deut. 32:4, 15, 18, 31). Of course, Paul’s reference to “the Lord” (1 Cor. 10:22) is a reference to Jesus. The “cup of the Lord” and “table of the Lord” are a reference to the Lord’s Supper (cf. 1 Corinthians 11:27-28, 10:16-17). On this point, there is an interesting parallel found in Malachi 1:7-12, where “the table of the Lord” expression is used for the altar which the prophet Malachi warned against defiling, something the Corinthians were also warned against by Paul.

Another example is found in Hebrews 1:6, where the author attributes language from Deut. 32:43 LXX to speak of the worship due to Jesus:
Very interesting. I’ll have to comb through all of these verses a bit later.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
1,053
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#17
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
 

Walter

Active member
Jul 20, 2022
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#18
In the name of Jesus, I Reject Your Link.

Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, and the Father are one God:

My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; no one will snatch them from my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them from my Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one.”

The Jewish leaders picked up rocks again to stone him to death. 32 Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good deeds from the Father. For which one of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jewish leaders replied, “We are not going to stone you for a good deed but for blasphemy because you, a man, are claiming to be God.”

Since algorithms and bots cannot discern what truth is and what apostasy is, I will personally ask you to refrain from recruiting for the JWs here. Thanks in advance.
Hello Steve, Yes I can now see what you are saying about the link/One God Worship, 1st. I found out more about the author Anthony Buzzard, I tried to find out who he is and his belief before I posted that article, but I could not. But I found out more later about him.

I should have waited until I was sure, but I did not, please forgive me.

It is one thing that I did find out from that sight when I asked a question: Is The Holy Spirit Separate From The Father? which brought me to that site.

Love, Walter
 

Walter

Active member
Jul 20, 2022
373
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Washington
#19
You posted a Unitarian (of the Socinian persuation) website. What exactly is the purpose of posting it? Is there a particular text you'd like to discuss? I read through several articles in the "Common Verses" section, particularly in regards to John 1:1 and am less than impressed. It seems like the administrator of the One God Worship website is regurgitating information from Anthony Buzzard. The articles on John 1:1 can easily be dismantled. I'd like to talk about it if you have time.
Hello William, Is this the person you are referring to? Anthony Buzzard - Search (bing.com) and is he the one is the author of the linked/One God Worship?

Walter
 

williamjordan

Senior Member
Feb 18, 2015
222
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#20
Hello William, Is this the person you are referring to? Anthony Buzzard - Search (bing.com) and is he the one is the author of the linked/One God Worship?

Walter
Anthony Buzzard isn't the publisher of the One God Worship website, but the sites administrator has gotten their information from him, because they have almost verbatim regurgitated his arguments.