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C
This is what I proclaim:
There is but one God, and no other besides Him.
the LORD (Jehovah) is my Redeemer.
There is but One Lord.
Jesus Christ is the Lord.
If Jesus Christ means "Jehovah is salvation, the Messiah", then, indeed, Jesus Christ is my Lord, my Redeemer, my God.
But, He is not God the Father, seeing that if He was, then when He died, all things would have ceased to exist.
But, Jesus was the very essense of God the Father in bodily form.
But, it is certain that He is the second person of God (of the Godhead), as the Word is God (of the Godhead).
To be certain, there are three manifestations of the Godhead 1) God the Father, 2) God the Word, 3) God the Holy Spirit, but there is only one God.
I hope I have made myself clear as to what I proclaim?
There is but one God, and no other besides Him.
the LORD (Jehovah) is my Redeemer.
There is but One Lord.
Jesus Christ is the Lord.
If Jesus Christ means "Jehovah is salvation, the Messiah", then, indeed, Jesus Christ is my Lord, my Redeemer, my God.
But, He is not God the Father, seeing that if He was, then when He died, all things would have ceased to exist.
But, Jesus was the very essense of God the Father in bodily form.
But, it is certain that He is the second person of God (of the Godhead), as the Word is God (of the Godhead).
To be certain, there are three manifestations of the Godhead 1) God the Father, 2) God the Word, 3) God the Holy Spirit, but there is only one God.
I hope I have made myself clear as to what I proclaim?
C
im sure scripture says the Godhead is a mystery and the epistles spent little time on it for that simple fact. Man on the other hand, makes a doctrinal issue which brings dis unity, division and at times the worst out in people whenever theology is viewed as greater than who all the theology speaks about, God the Father, His Son, Holy Spirit - "Godhead" - mystery
abc christianity - non salvation issues whether one thinks His one or three, its a mystery as they said lol
abc christianity - non salvation issues whether one thinks His one or three, its a mystery as they said lol
C
Please read Heb 1:3. In short it states: "... the express image of His person...". It makes Christ the representation of the Father to us. Did not Jesus say something along this line, "He who has seen me has seen the Father..."? So basically, they are two separate persons known as the Father and the Word, but they are of one nature.
It was God the Word who became flesh, and from such, the Christ was introdused into the world. There was no Messiah until the birth of the Son, but the Word has always existed and does co-exist with the Father. They of the OT always looked forward to the day that their Messiah would be born.
But, I understand that this is not your point when you said, "your...Christ doesn't seem to be eternally co-existent with the Father." But, if I say that Jesus was God the Word incarnated, then does that not imply that the Word is eteranlly co-existent with the Father and the Spirit?
Do not get me wrong, but I think there is confusion about the titles belonging to each of the three individuals of the Godhead. You say that Christ is eternal and co-exist with the Father. I say that the Word is eternal and co-exist with the Father, but that the Word also took upon Himself the titles Christ, Son, Mediatator, Priest, ...etc, when He became flesh and fulfilled God the Father's salvational plan. So, we are talking about the same Person, but with different titles.
Is there not but one God? Is there not but one Lord? Are they not all three One?
It was God the Word who became flesh, and from such, the Christ was introdused into the world. There was no Messiah until the birth of the Son, but the Word has always existed and does co-exist with the Father. They of the OT always looked forward to the day that their Messiah would be born.
But, I understand that this is not your point when you said, "your...Christ doesn't seem to be eternally co-existent with the Father." But, if I say that Jesus was God the Word incarnated, then does that not imply that the Word is eteranlly co-existent with the Father and the Spirit?
Do not get me wrong, but I think there is confusion about the titles belonging to each of the three individuals of the Godhead. You say that Christ is eternal and co-exist with the Father. I say that the Word is eternal and co-exist with the Father, but that the Word also took upon Himself the titles Christ, Son, Mediatator, Priest, ...etc, when He became flesh and fulfilled God the Father's salvational plan. So, we are talking about the same Person, but with different titles.
Is there not but one God? Is there not but one Lord? Are they not all three One?
C
I am truly not trying to doctrinally argue, but as each is given from the Spirit, so it is that I find interest in DEBATING, never arguing, about this mystery. I agree with you that it does bring out the worse in people, and I hope this debate will continue in love and not in strive. And since it is not an issue of salvation, then there shall be no harm in a simple conversing about our God.
C
Would you mind going to What is the Godhead?
This is exactely what I am trying to say. I know my words are hard to understand, and I am sorry for any misunderstandings.
This is exactely what I am trying to say. I know my words are hard to understand, and I am sorry for any misunderstandings.
S
Are you saying that God shared His glory with His speech? Are you making a distinction between God and His words? When you speak and words come out of your mouth, is that still you or an entirely different person?
The text is quite obvious, it's a conversation between two eternal Persons, which you can determine by all the personal pronouns being used, the adverb "together" and prepositions such as "with" in the context of "with You", clearly making a distinction between the one speaking and the one being spoken to.
So if you could just clarify your position here, do you believe that "the Word" is somehow separate from God and that God shared His glory with ...His words?
Thanks.
The text is quite obvious, it's a conversation between two eternal Persons, which you can determine by all the personal pronouns being used, the adverb "together" and prepositions such as "with" in the context of "with You", clearly making a distinction between the one speaking and the one being spoken to.
So if you could just clarify your position here, do you believe that "the Word" is somehow separate from God and that God shared His glory with ...His words?
Thanks.
I
prophecyman
I am what you would refer to as a Trinitarian, I believe that there is ONE GOD and He is clearly revealed in scripture as three personages, Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three personages are the one God. No you can't find the word Trinity in the Bible, but the word was correctly created to describe how the Lord Himself revealed His own existance to us. How simple it would have been for a God who existed only in one person as "Oneness" says, to reveal Himself in that way. Why would He risk the confusion of His very existence by allowing for example; "The Father to speak out of heaven".."The Holy Spirit to descend from Heaven "in the form of a dove" and "The Son to be in the water." When you consider all other scriptures that clearly show the separate distinction of the three personages, this is a clear picture of why the word Trinity was created. What I'm trying to say is that the word Trinity wasn't created to forge something that wasn't clearly revealed in scripture.
The true diety of the God Head is really a simple matter that has been staring us in the face the entire time. I know God is three persons but yet ONE for one reason. God made man not only in His image but He made him in His likeness ...So..that means that when we look at the image of man, we see the image of God. It also means that man is made like Him, meaning whatever His essence is so is man's, whatever His make up is, thats what our make up is...So if God is really three persons but yet one God...man has to be three persons but yet one man. This is exactly what man is...1.Body 2.Soul 3.Spirit...all three of these personages are addressed in scripture. Man is Body, Soul, and Spirit and they all three have their own will seperate from the other. The reason God is so pwerful is because He is in total agreement with Himself..there is no division in Him.. This is the prayer that Jesus prayed for us...to be ONE as He and the Father are ONE....
John 17:22
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE:
I submit to you that Jesus is not talking about you and me becoming one, or the Church becoming one together..He is talking about we as individuals becoming one with ourselves, coming into agreement with oursleves as He the Father and the Holy Spirit are. Thats by receiving a new spirit upon our confession of faith in His death ,burrial, and resurrection, and renewing our soul, which is our mind, will and emotions by the Word of God and crucifying our flesh/body to bring it under the control of the Word.
　
The reason I say this is because I don't believe that Jesus would pray a prayer that was impossible for God to answer without violating rules that He has already established. If this was a prayer for us to be one with one another as the Father is One with the Son, according to "Oneness" theology, this is impossible. How can you and I be One on that level. We would have to no longer exist as seperate persons and find a way to fuse our minds together to literally become one mind or one person. God made us seperate individuals from one other and thats what we will always be. We can be in unity, but we will always have seperate expression and existence. There is no way we could be ONE as Jesus and the Father are as described by the "Oneness" doctrine.
Although, when you look at the Trinity concept of the God Head that is presented in scripture..The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all functioning for one purpose, one cause, and one voice to the degree that they are one single entity. Now you can see how man being body, soul and spirit, pressing in this Christian walk to unify all three parts of himself, having his spirit transformed by Christ upon his confession of faith, then renewing his mind with the Word of God and beating his flesh to also fall under subjection to God's Word..now thats a prayer that if answered we could all benifit from.
　
I am what you would refer to as a Trinitarian, I believe that there is ONE GOD and He is clearly revealed in scripture as three personages, Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three personages are the one God. No you can't find the word Trinity in the Bible, but the word was correctly created to describe how the Lord Himself revealed His own existance to us. How simple it would have been for a God who existed only in one person as "Oneness" says, to reveal Himself in that way. Why would He risk the confusion of His very existence by allowing for example; "The Father to speak out of heaven".."The Holy Spirit to descend from Heaven "in the form of a dove" and "The Son to be in the water." When you consider all other scriptures that clearly show the separate distinction of the three personages, this is a clear picture of why the word Trinity was created. What I'm trying to say is that the word Trinity wasn't created to forge something that wasn't clearly revealed in scripture.
The true diety of the God Head is really a simple matter that has been staring us in the face the entire time. I know God is three persons but yet ONE for one reason. God made man not only in His image but He made him in His likeness ...So..that means that when we look at the image of man, we see the image of God. It also means that man is made like Him, meaning whatever His essence is so is man's, whatever His make up is, thats what our make up is...So if God is really three persons but yet one God...man has to be three persons but yet one man. This is exactly what man is...1.Body 2.Soul 3.Spirit...all three of these personages are addressed in scripture. Man is Body, Soul, and Spirit and they all three have their own will seperate from the other. The reason God is so pwerful is because He is in total agreement with Himself..there is no division in Him.. This is the prayer that Jesus prayed for us...to be ONE as He and the Father are ONE....
John 17:22
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE:
I submit to you that Jesus is not talking about you and me becoming one, or the Church becoming one together..He is talking about we as individuals becoming one with ourselves, coming into agreement with oursleves as He the Father and the Holy Spirit are. Thats by receiving a new spirit upon our confession of faith in His death ,burrial, and resurrection, and renewing our soul, which is our mind, will and emotions by the Word of God and crucifying our flesh/body to bring it under the control of the Word.
　
The reason I say this is because I don't believe that Jesus would pray a prayer that was impossible for God to answer without violating rules that He has already established. If this was a prayer for us to be one with one another as the Father is One with the Son, according to "Oneness" theology, this is impossible. How can you and I be One on that level. We would have to no longer exist as seperate persons and find a way to fuse our minds together to literally become one mind or one person. God made us seperate individuals from one other and thats what we will always be. We can be in unity, but we will always have seperate expression and existence. There is no way we could be ONE as Jesus and the Father are as described by the "Oneness" doctrine.
Although, when you look at the Trinity concept of the God Head that is presented in scripture..The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all functioning for one purpose, one cause, and one voice to the degree that they are one single entity. Now you can see how man being body, soul and spirit, pressing in this Christian walk to unify all three parts of himself, having his spirit transformed by Christ upon his confession of faith, then renewing his mind with the Word of God and beating his flesh to also fall under subjection to God's Word..now thats a prayer that if answered we could all benifit from.
　
C
?????
May I ask how you got the assumption that I was stating that God's speech is Diety? If you would go to where I inserted Biblical references to the exact paragraph, and having looked up the references yourself, you would understand that the Word was with the God in the beginning, and it was through him by which all things were created (John 1:1-3). It was the Word of the LORD who became flesh and is a name for Christ in Rev 19:13.
There are at least 2 in the trinity. Spedifically, God the Father and God the Word. This is in total agreement with "together", "with", and "with You". And when God the Father said, "Let there be...", then God the Word spoke it and it was. This is how Jesus can say that He created all things, because He was and is God the Word. He never ceased being God, but did humble Himself for the sake of God the Father's salvational plan.
God the Father is separate from God the Word, inasmuch as He is separate from God the Holy Spirit, with each having their role in the Godhead. But they are all one God, seeing that there is but one God.
We can say that there is 7 manifestations (note the singular "is") of the Spirit and there is no disbute. But when we say that there is 3 manifestations of God, then confusion occurs. And that is simply because we know there is but one God. And if there is but one God, then we must be content that God the Father is God, God the Word is God, and God the Holy Spirit is God. In so saying, we much agree that God the Word took upon Himself flesh and took the name Jesus upon Himself. Does the taking on of flesh make God the Word not God?
May I ask how you got the assumption that I was stating that God's speech is Diety? If you would go to where I inserted Biblical references to the exact paragraph, and having looked up the references yourself, you would understand that the Word was with the God in the beginning, and it was through him by which all things were created (John 1:1-3). It was the Word of the LORD who became flesh and is a name for Christ in Rev 19:13.
There are at least 2 in the trinity. Spedifically, God the Father and God the Word. This is in total agreement with "together", "with", and "with You". And when God the Father said, "Let there be...", then God the Word spoke it and it was. This is how Jesus can say that He created all things, because He was and is God the Word. He never ceased being God, but did humble Himself for the sake of God the Father's salvational plan.
God the Father is separate from God the Word, inasmuch as He is separate from God the Holy Spirit, with each having their role in the Godhead. But they are all one God, seeing that there is but one God.
We can say that there is 7 manifestations (note the singular "is") of the Spirit and there is no disbute. But when we say that there is 3 manifestations of God, then confusion occurs. And that is simply because we know there is but one God. And if there is but one God, then we must be content that God the Father is God, God the Word is God, and God the Holy Spirit is God. In so saying, we much agree that God the Word took upon Himself flesh and took the name Jesus upon Himself. Does the taking on of flesh make God the Word not God?
A
To continue on with post #17 ... re: Jesus being equal to Father God:
John 1:1-2 ----- “In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with (Father) God.”
Heb. 1:8-13 --- “But to the Son He (Father God) says:
‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever …’ And:
‘You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain
… But to which of the angels has He ever said: ’Sit at My right hand …?’ ”
John 14:11 --- “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me”
John 20:28 --- “And Thomas answered and said to Him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ ”
Acts 2:36 ------ “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God
has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
Acts 7:59 ------ “And they stoned Stephen as he was calling upon God and saying,
‘Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.’ ”
Romans 9:5 -- “Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.”
Philippians 2:10-11 “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
of those in heaven, and of those of earth, and of those under the earth,
and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord”
Titus 2:13 ------ “our great God and Savior Jesus Christ”
1 John 5:20 --- “… and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ.
This is the true God and eternal life.”
Jude 4 --- “the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
John 1:1-2 ----- “In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with (Father) God.”
Heb. 1:8-13 --- “But to the Son He (Father God) says:
‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever …’ And:
‘You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain
… But to which of the angels has He ever said: ’Sit at My right hand …?’ ”
John 14:11 --- “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me”
John 20:28 --- “And Thomas answered and said to Him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ ”
Acts 2:36 ------ “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God
has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
Acts 7:59 ------ “And they stoned Stephen as he was calling upon God and saying,
‘Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.’ ”
Romans 9:5 -- “Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.”
Philippians 2:10-11 “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
of those in heaven, and of those of earth, and of those under the earth,
and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord”
Titus 2:13 ------ “our great God and Savior Jesus Christ”
1 John 5:20 --- “… and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ.
This is the true God and eternal life.”
Jude 4 --- “the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
A
Yes, "Manifestations" is the correct terminology (instead of "Persons")
... because isn't everything (everyone) in the spirit world sexless?
However, God desiring to have a personal relationship with us,
thought it necessary to present Itself as masculine.
Could we comfortably have a personal relationship with an "It"?
Also, to clarify, the man called "Jesus" was a combination of:
OUTSIDE: a human
INSIDE: the Logos (Word), the Second Manifestation of the Triune Godhead
.
... because isn't everything (everyone) in the spirit world sexless?
However, God desiring to have a personal relationship with us,
thought it necessary to present Itself as masculine.
Could we comfortably have a personal relationship with an "It"?
Also, to clarify, the man called "Jesus" was a combination of:
OUTSIDE: a human
INSIDE: the Logos (Word), the Second Manifestation of the Triune Godhead
.
Last edited by a moderator:
C
i like you bro
yes absolutely right bro, reasonng about things is so different to debating though, debating is entering a conversation from a fixed viewpoint(hence argue) - leaves no room to be taught by God then if we think we know it all and everyone else wrong.
the only fixed position we need to stand on is the finished work of the cross - Jesus - lamb of God, reconciling us to Him.