OSAS supporters, explain these, if you will please.

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Jun 26, 2014
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#61
It is a debate that will never be won.

For there are scriptures that support osas. ( Scriptures that speak of ones who are and stay true in obedience to our Lord )


Scriptures that support salvation lost ( Falling away, departing from the faith, sheep who gets lost that needs to be brought back, and so on )
It's all in how we define meanings. Some define salvation as a ticket that gets punched through a simple act of believing in God while others define salvation is a work in progress that must be cooperated with. Both sides begin with a simple act of believing in God. I believe the second is more biblically sound. The important thing to grasp, when it comes to salvation, is that God is saving us by pulling us out of a kingdom that is perishing and placing us in His eternal kingdom. Both kingdoms have beliefs and principles to live by if you want to be part of the kingdom you chose.

When Jesus comes again, He is coming to remove from His kingdom those who don't want to be part of.

[h=1]Matthew 13:41-42The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.[/h]
 
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#62
For those who would call Jesus a liar when arguing salvation is not eternal, as it is your soul in peril, explain this:
John 10:28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

And those who call Jesus a liar as they argue salvation is not eternal, contrary to every scripture that says it is, explain then how you interpolate that verse to say this instead:
and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man but any man pluck them out of my hand.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#63
For those who would call Jesus a liar when arguing salvation is not eternal, as it is your soul in peril, explain this:
John 10:28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

And those who call Jesus a liar as they argue salvation is not eternal, contrary to every scripture that says it is, explain then how you interpolate that verse to say this instead:
and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man but any man pluck them out of my hand.
Verse 27 explains verse 28. Too many take verse 28 OUT OF CONTEXT and ASSUME eternal security is the reason why God does not allow Christ's sheep to be snatched out of His hand. Eternal security is not even in the context.


There are two sides to salvation;

1) man's faithfulness to God
2 ) God's faithfulness to man

Verse 27 shows man's faithfulness to God in that Christ's sheep are the one's that are faithful in their hearing and following Christ. In turn God is faithful to those sheep by not allowing them to be snatched out of His hand.

Verse 27 shows that a CONITNUED hearing and following must be done to qualify as one of Christ's sheep. Men of their own volition hear and follow and those that choose to quit hearing and following no longer qualify as one of Christ's sheep and remove themselves from the hand of God. No verse says God will remain faithful to save those that become unfaithful to Him that turn to live in unrighteousness.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#64
For those who would call Jesus a liar when arguing salvation is not eternal, as it is your soul in peril, explain this:
John 10:28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

And those who call Jesus a liar as they argue salvation is not eternal, contrary to every scripture that says it is, explain then how you interpolate that verse to say this instead:
and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man but any man pluck them out of my hand.
Eternal life of our own is not ours, YET! Jesus is the only one who has eternal life and He gives it to us when we're abiding in Him. Eternal life is in Christ. If we have Christ, we have eternal life. If we don't have Christ, we don't have eternal life. We have Christ as long as we are abiding in His word.

1 John 5:11-12 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Eternal life is in Jesus. When we have Jesus we have eternal life and how we have Jesus is by obeying His voice and following His lead.

John 10:27-28 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Eternal life right now is connected to abiding in Christ.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#65
Eternal life happens when we have passed from judgment into life...

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Those who think it partially depends on self are work mongers period, always looking for some avenue they can get some glory.
They have not died to self.
 
Aug 20, 2014
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#66
Eternal security is not even in the context?
You really don't comprehend scripture at all. That's the scary part. People like that who argue Jesus', God incarnate, lied and had no comprehension of "context" , when he promised "eternal life". Those people who argue Jesus is a liar, as in your case here, redefine "eternal" on his behalf.
Thank Christ the scriptures warn us of false teachers that promote the lie you're promoting here. This isn't a game. This is souls and God's word. Which, since you aren't aware, supersedes your agenda in leading people falsely.

Eternal life, eternal salvation, has never been sponsored in scripture as a license to sin. A Christian knows this. A Christian is aware of those scriptures that tell those who are born again to live and act in a manner that pleases God. This of course is a command that interjects itself after we accept Jesus.
Perhaps if you ventured to a site like Biblegateway.com and committed yourself to their Bible study you would be better off.

Because it is reprehensible that anyone would venture into a Christians community and attempt to argue with them that the eternal life Jesus promised, the eternal security in his hand as that grace of salvation, is transient. It's a lie vomited right out of the pit. And I forgive those who speak from there to any Christian here. I just hope God does too.

Verse 27 explains verse 28. Too many take verse 28 OUT OF CONTEXT and ASSUME eternal security is the reason why God does not allow Christ's sheep to be snatched out of His hand. Eternal security is not even in the context.


There are two sides to salvation;

1) man's faithfulness to God
2 ) God's faithfulness to man

Verse 27 shows man's faithfulness to God in that Christ's sheep are the one's that are faithful in their hearing and following Christ. In turn God is faithful to those sheep by not allowing them to be snatched out of His hand.

Verse 27 shows that a CONITNUED hearing and following must be done to qualify as one of Christ's sheep. Men of their own volition hear and follow and those that choose to quit hearing and following no longer qualify as one of Christ's sheep and remove themselves from the hand of God. No verse says God will remain faithful to save those that become unfaithful to Him that turn to live in unrighteousness.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#67
2 Cor 1:22 "Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts"

Eph 1:13 "
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise"

The "us" in 2 Cor 1:22 and the "ye" in Eph 1:13 both refer to the group "Christian". So it is the GROUP that is sealed for not one single individual outside of the group "Christian" is sealed unconditionally. So as long as one conditionally, faithfully remains within this GROUP "Christian" he is sealed. IF he becomes unfaithful and unrepentant he will no longer be in the GROUP that is sealed.
The 'us' hamas is in the plural form - the 'ye' hemas is also in the plural form because it is written to a GROUP of people collectively known as the CHURCH. The GROUP known as the CHURCH is made up of individuals. God deals with us each individually and not collectively. We 'each' stand before God and are accountable. We 'each' have been sealed - after we 'each' trusted when we heard the word of truth - we 'each' were sealed and that seal is unbreakable - until the day of redemption. The CHURCH can be spoken to collectively but the message within is for EACH individual in the church body.

And you are correct not one single individual outside the GROUP, the CHURCH body is sealed unconditionally nor conditionally!!!! Being sealed is only applicable to those who are born again of God's Spirit.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#68
Eternal life happens when we have passed from judgment into life...

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Those who think it partially depends on self are work mongers period, always looking for some avenue they can get some glory.
They have not died to self.
What must be believed? Must we believe in Jesus or must we believe Jesus? Is eternal life found in calling Jesus Lord or is it found in making Jesus your Lord?

Those who believe Jesus will follow Jesus. In this He gives them eternal life. Eternal life is something that abides in us when were living by the words of Jesus. If you hate your brother you don't have eternal life abiding in you because hating your brother is something that Jesus taught against.

1 John 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.




 
Aug 20, 2014
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#69
In the hope of vanquishing the false teachers who prowl the internet hoping to lead the faithful and the seekers of Christ astray, please consider all of Romans 8. Linked here

For those who are not Christians as yet, for those who are seekers of the way, when you come across those who attempt to demean Jesus and his promise, after his sacrifice on the cross, of eternal life, eternal salvation by the grace of God the father, challenge them and their agenda.
Ask them to show you the scripture where Jesus himself, not Paul, not Peter, but Jesus himself said that the gift of Salvation is not eternal. That he will repeal it at his whim.

You'll be waiting for a very long time for that false teacher to bring that scripture to you. Because what you are asking them to do is to show in scripture what they profess of Christ. That he is a liar when he, the only begotten son of God, died so as to take the sins of the world upon himself on the cross so that whosoever believeth in him shall have eternal life. Salvation is not revocable.

When you were a sinner and sought to be redeemed and washed clean in the blood of the lamb, Jesus, you became a new creature by the grace of God.

How then can you take that grace, as one of those sheep Jesus said would hear his voice, and did, and that he knows you by name did make that call to your spirit to come unto him and repent and be saved, then choose to revoke the grace of God's gift to you? How do you, a mere mortal, have greater power and authority than the king of heaven? That you, per those who condemn OSAS, can tell Jesus, who said you were one of his sheep that he knows by name, renounce him and the grace of God by your own choice? And thereby damn yourself back to the sinner and the appointed destiny that awaits the unredeemed?

That would make you more powerful than our all knowing God.

Further, those who renounce the fact that once we're saved we are always saved, are living under the delusion, and this is what prompts their false argument, that once you're saved it isn't eternal because if you sin you're not saved anymore. And that's why they think OSAS is false. Because they believe, and this because they have never read scripture, OSAS is a license to sin. Because being saved nothing you do can ever cause you to be found guilty of sin and suffer the consequences that would otherwise occur when someone is an unrepentant unredeemed sinner.

No one lives without sinning. Not even the redeemed in Christ. Those that renounce OSAS don't know what sin is. Mores the pity because as they argue and call Jesus a liar and don't know the basics about sin and redemption, they revoke any argument they make due to that ignorance of the definition of the sin that Jesus redeemed in the first place.

Those who are saved in Christ sin. It is impossible to be human and not. However, by the grace of God our sin will not condemn us as it would those who are not reborn. That's scripture too.
(What Does The Bible Say About Once Saved Always Saved - Scriptures)

John 10:27-30 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”

Bible Study Tools - Sin - Definition

Now for those who are seekers, or are Christian and may be made afraid by the false teachers on the internet who attempt to tell you your salvation is not eternal, consider what they are saying to you as they plagiarize Christ and interpolate his words to their agenda there in John 10:27.

This is what they're saying to you in the name of Christ. (They're lying! And what they're saying is blasphemy and heresy. But this is what they're saying so as to repeal Christ's words and interject their own:

John 10:27-30
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give do not give them eternal life, and they will never perish, unless they decide to do so. And no one but themselves will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one but your own selves are able to snatch yourselves out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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#70
GROOVY MAN

[video=youtube;f1iAaKHd7z8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1iAaKHd7z8[/video]

DC, those striped pants probably fit ya just fine..lol
HAHAHH love the bell bottoms HAHAHH (not) :)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#71
What must be believed? Must we believe in Jesus or must we believe Jesus? Is eternal life found in calling Jesus Lord or is it found in making Jesus your Lord?

Those who believe Jesus will follow Jesus. In this He gives them eternal life. Eternal life is something that abides in us when were living by the words of Jesus. If you hate your brother you don't have eternal life abiding in you because hating your brother is something that Jesus taught against.

1 John 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.




You don't earn eternal life by following Jesus. Calling Jesus Lord? He is Lord.
We are saved through His perfect obedience and death on our behalf.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#72
Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#73
Wrong again and tainted by COC heresy

Judas was a devil from the beginning and never was saved!

Your misunderstanding of Revelation speaks volumes as the Church at Ephesus was warned about loosing their right and authority of being a church collectively and had nothing to do with salvation!

And to the last two points you again misunderstand the truth and apply things that are not applied.....YOU CANNOT LOOSE something that IS ETERNAL and FOUND IN JESUS and it is obvious you trust in YOUR abilities to keep you saved.....YOU CANNOT help JESUS do what has already been DONE....

Paul said a LAW points clearly that WE ALL HAVE SIN PRESENT when we GO to do GOOD.....

Good luck with your Campbellite Doctrine which is CONTRARY to the DOCTRINE that JESUS teaches.....!

1) Jn 10:27 Christ sheep are in God's hand and God is faithful to those sheep not to allow them to be snatched away for those sheep are faithful in their hearing and following Christ. Eternal security is not even in the context of Jn 10:27,28 but must be added to God's word thereby perverting the context.

2) Jn 17:11,12 Judas was one that Christ kept but Judas ended up lost.

3) The church at Ephesus were sealed, Eph 1:13 but became unsealed, Rev 2:1-7

4) God created the heavens and earth but they are not eternal, 2 Pet 3:10-12. Salvation is eternal for those Christians that remain faithful unto death, Rev 2:10. Those that become unfaithful will be lost.

5) as long as I faithfully walk in the light Christ's blood cleanses me from all sins, 1 Jn 1:7. That faithful walking must be unto death.

How many sins that one will not repent of will he carry into heaven with him? None for he will carry all those unrepented sins with him into eternal condemnation.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#74
Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
these came short of regeneration...a new nature...is that your case Scuba? Is that why you are still under works?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#75
Wrong again and tainted by COC heresy

Judas was a devil from the beginning and never was saved!

Your misunderstanding of Revelation speaks volumes as the Church at Ephesus was warned about loosing their right and authority of being a church collectively and had nothing to do with salvation!

And to the last two points you again misunderstand the truth and apply things that are not applied.....YOU CANNOT LOOSE something that IS ETERNAL and FOUND IN JESUS and it is obvious you trust in YOUR abilities to keep you saved.....YOU CANNOT help JESUS do what has already been DONE....

Paul said a LAW points clearly that WE ALL HAVE SIN PRESENT when we GO to do GOOD.....

Good luck with your Campbellite Doctrine which is CONTRARY to the DOCTRINE that JESUS teaches.....!




Lk 6:13 "And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples (includes Judas): and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles (includes Judas);."

Judas here is called both a "disciple" of Christ and "apostle" which would not be possible if he were never saved.

Jn 17:11,12 "
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Judas was one both given to Christ and kept by Christ, again not possible if he were always lost.

If someone gave me 12 different colored pencils to keep and when that person returned to get his pencils and I said "
none of them are lost but the red one", I could not say that unless I was first given the red pencil to keep.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#76
Lk 6:13 "And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples (includes Judas): and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles (includes Judas);."

Judas here is called both a "disciple" of Christ and "apostle" which would not be possible if he were never saved.

Jn 17:11,12 "
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Judas was one both given to Christ and kept by Christ, again not possible if he were always lost.

If someone gave me 12 different colored pencils to keep and when that person returned to get his pencils and I said "
none of them are lost but the red one", I could not say that unless I was first given the red pencil to keep.
Again wrong and misunderstood by your COC heresy....

Apostle=ONE SENT
DISCIPLE=LEARNER of ONES doctrine

The majority of the WORLD knows about JESUS and HIS doctrine, but that does not make them a saved child of God.....

Jesus also said clearly that JUDAS was not OF them and WAS a DEVIL form the beginning....

DUDE you can forget it...your COC heresy will never FLY with me in light of the WORD of GOD!

Go peddle it to someone else and when you finally open your eyes to the truth of Jesus and quit propagating Campbellite heresy then come and enjoy the truth...until then you are a false teacher that trusts into a heretical man made doctrine!

You must be blind to the bolded above! OPEN your eyes dude before you cook!
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#77
these came short of regeneration...a new nature...is that your case Scuba? Is that why you are still under works?
Why must you make it personal attack against me? I'm I threatening your belief system by what I'm saying? Is it that deep down inside you believe what I'm saying but you refuse to accept it so you attack me in defense?

Regeneration is the new birth and the new birth is when someone is born of God's Spirit. In other words, they become partakers of the Holy Spirit.
 
Aug 20, 2014
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#78
2 John 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting,

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
You're saying that Paul revokes the words and promise of Jesus. He doesn't. But Jesus did warn of Paul and his mission.
[h=1]Matthew 24:25-28 See, I have told you ahead of time.“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather[/h]
(Acts 9:1-19Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest [SUP]2 [/SUP]and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. [SUP]3 [/SUP]As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” [SUP]5 [/SUP]“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. [SUP]6 [/SUP]“Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”......)
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#79
these came short of regeneration...a new nature...is that your case Scuba? Is that why you are still under works?

The text does not say "they came short of regeneration". Now why would Eternal Securists want to ADD that to God's word?

The text does say they were enlightened (past tense), tasted (past tense) of the heavenly gift, made (past tense) partakers of the Holy Ghost, tasted (past tense) the word of God and the powers of the world to come.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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#80
You're saying that Paul revokes the words and promise of Jesus. He doesn't. But Jesus did warn of Paul and his mission.
Matthew 24:25-28 See, I have told you ahead of time.“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather


Platypus:

Let's see the proof that
1) The Lord Jesus referred to Paul in the gospels.
2) Paul spoke of Christ's 2nd coming as in the wilderness?
3) Christ's return being universally visible, like lightning in the sky has anything to do with Paul?
4) Paul is connected with a carcass & vultures?

Where does Christ say "Paul" or "Saul"?

Rubbish