Paul And The Law

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Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#1
Colossians 2:14


14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Paul had several great confrontations in his life which I think were bitter and difficult. Every one of them was over the issue of law.
Paul never had a problem over God's grace. It is the same today, you never hear of those that are in grace kicking others out of their fellowship.
It is always the law that separates and divides us. In law there is only divisiveness because that is the very center of law.
The Apostle Paul had the supreme test of battling law.
When the gospel went to the Gentiles it was a gospel that had no law in it.
It was easy dealing with the Gentiles, but at the same time the Lord told Paul to tell Israel this was their opportunity to be saved also.
This is how the Jewish person comes into the plan of God today. The Kingdom is set aside and will not be restored until the Millennium.

The same message that went to the Gentiles, without the law, also went to Israel.
During Paul's time, two inconceivable things took place.
Paul who knew nothing but the law, converted to God's grace.
At the same time, Paul had to go to a people that were so deeply steeped in law and committed to it that they would kill to maintain their law.
To make sure you hear it clearly, read these words in Ephesians 2:15

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

If grace is mixed with law, then it is no longer grace. So we say how do we handle sins of the flesh if there is no law.
It is handled the same way Paul handled it, by the preaching of the gospel.
God's cross is still the only liberator that exists.
Your law keeping, law doing, and law preaching will not set the captive free.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
4,948
1,160
113
#3
Colossians 2:14


14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Paul had several great confrontations in his life which I think were bitter and difficult. Every one of them was over the issue of law.
Paul never had a problem over God's grace. It is the same today, you never hear of those that are in grace kicking others out of their fellowship.
It is always the law that separates and divides us. In law there is only divisiveness because that is the very center of law.
The Apostle Paul had the supreme test of battling law.
When the gospel went to the Gentiles it was a gospel that had no law in it.
It was easy dealing with the Gentiles, but at the same time the Lord told Paul to tell Israel this was their opportunity to be saved also.
This is how the Jewish person comes into the plan of God today. The Kingdom is set aside and will not be restored until the Millennium.

The same message that went to the Gentiles, without the law, also went to Israel.
During Paul's time, two inconceivable things took place.
Paul who knew nothing but the law, converted to God's grace.
At the same time, Paul had to go to a people that were so deeply steeped in law and committed to it that they would kill to maintain their law.
To make sure you hear it clearly, read these words in Ephesians 2:15

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

If grace is mixed with law, then it is no longer grace. So we say how do we handle sins of the flesh if there is no law.
It is handled the same way Paul handled it, by the preaching of the gospel.
God's cross is still the only liberator that exists.
Your law keeping, law doing, and law preaching will not set the captive free.
The "pauline emphasis" actually leaves out the ABILITY to keep the law.

pauline hyper theology is too extreme.

The problem with the law,was not the law,but mans INABILITY to keep it.

Salvation comes through faith in Jesus. Grace. Period.

So what you end up with in "Pauline hyper enforcement" ironically,becomes a kind of "Paul policeman" effect,or legalism.

Your doctrine is ERROR BY EMPHASIS.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
4,948
1,160
113
#4
Salvation is a person,not a "keeping of Pauls doctrine"

Therefore,the doctrine of grace is the entire word,not some bracket of verses.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
4,948
1,160
113
#6
Every time I see this Pauline exclusiveness,I see someone preaching to the choir "Salvation,salvation,salvation".

OK,we are saved.......next?

Do we walk in fear and trembling and holiness,or just an initial salvation??????
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
4,948
1,160
113
#7
Now,dont get me wrong,I LIVE in pauls letters. But I live in Jesus' words in the acts and gospels.

I prefer above all,Jesus,then Pauls letters. It was Paul's inspired writings that we get the teaching and person of the Holy Ghost.

James and peters books have almost zero of that component.

But grace is initial salvation.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,686
1,371
113
#8
Why Paul and the law and not Peter and the law or John and the law?

What makes Paul's struggle with law any different than any other Apostle?

Are there different kinds of laws? If so how many?

Can the law convert ones soul?
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#9
Now,dont get me wrong,I LIVE in pauls letters. But I live in Jesus' words in the acts and gospels.

I prefer above all,Jesus,then Pauls letters. It was Paul's inspired writings that we get the teaching and person of the Holy Ghost.

James and peters books have almost zero of that component.

But grace is initial salvation.



You do not not see the Disciples like Peter or Yeshua's half brother and leader of the Council James writing about GRACE because they are following the sole example of God in the flesh (Christ). And Christ taught that we are not or ever will be under the "Grace of God," but that we are under the "Mercy of God." And that Mercy has been extended from Calvary to the "Second Coming," which will be the end of Mercy and beginning of God's wrath.

Paul never carried this message of Mercy. Which is why I bet the Disciples and the Council never read any of Paul's letters. Had they read them and seen Paul preach a different message than Christ (God in the flesh), there would have been issues over it. All throughout the New Testament we see from the Disciples, Luke, James, Jude, and others ALL speaking about the MERCY of GOD. Only in Paul do we see this Grace message. That is why I believe the Grace message today is FALSE and HERETICAL. Because anyone with actual close and personal ties with Yeshua (God in human form) writes about the MERCY of GOD!!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,314
3,876
113
#10
You do not not see the Disciples like Peter or Yeshua's half brother and leader of the Council James writing about GRACE because they are following the sole example of God in the flesh (Christ). And Christ taught that we are not or ever will be under the "Grace of God," but that we are under the "Mercy of God." And that Mercy has been extended from Calvary to the "Second Coming," which will be the end of Mercy and beginning of God's wrath.

Paul never carried this message of Mercy. Which is why I bet the Disciples and the Council never read any of Paul's letters. Had they read them and seen Paul preach a different message than Christ (God in the flesh), there would have been issues over it. All throughout the New Testament we see from the Disciples, Luke, James, Jude, and others ALL speaking about the MERCY of GOD. Only in Paul do we see this Grace message. That is why I believe the Grace message today is FALSE and HERETICAL. Because anyone with actual close and personal ties with Yeshua (God in human form) writes about the MERCY of GOD!!
It has become more and more prevalent with people posting thatt they completely reject anything posted that Jesus teaches opting to quote all kinds of contradictions from Paul. It would be frightening were it not for faith that Jesus Christ is in charge.........Thank you for shining lght brightly.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
679
185
43
#11
The Bible says very clearly that the Law is dead. It’s one of the major themes. To proof text it show the opposite takes much effort and is a sign of something being lead by someone other than God.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,314
3,876
113
#12
The Bible says very clearly that the Law is dead. It’s one of the major themes. To proof text it show the opposite takes much effort and is a sign of something being lead by someone other than God.
No where does the Bible say the Law is dead. It does say however that the curse of the law, death, died on the cross with Christ.

Do not misquote or put notions in the thread that could deter the weak from progressing as much as they are going to. Read the Word before making such declarations.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,314
3,876
113
#13
Remember all, if people post who do not listen to Jesus, Yeshua, but prefer the coddoing of someone else or worse and usually the crus of their problems to their own imaginations……...walk away, they are not in Yeshua.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,124
701
113
#14
Why are so many bucking against Paul on the threads??? I've read a few threads where Paul has been blasted here lately and seems like some are pitting Paul against Jesus for some reason.

I've never read where Paul contradicted Jesus or went against him in anyway. If it is there would someone be so kind to point it out???? Because, really, I have never seen it!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,314
3,876
113
#15
I could have a lot to do with the reality that when a lesson taught by Jesus, the Teacher, is shared online, people will not hear it, but they come baack with contradictory cherry-picked lines from writings of Paul when Jesus has been quite clear.

I have found more and more people posting only what Pul has written. Now if I learn something from Jesus directly it is not accepted, and I cannot aceptany one who denies Jesus in this manner, I believe they are false or deluded.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
4,390
905
113
#16
Dead?

Re: "dead," it says this:

Romans 7:1-4 -

7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by [means of] the body of Christ; [in order] that ye should be married [/joined] to Another, even to Him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,124
701
113
#17
That is one thing that I don't understand..... Why people try to take the words of Paul and misconstrue them to say that he was saying something totally different than Jesus.

Paul didn't go against what Jesus said and people would do well to read what Paul wrote in context not just cherry pick through it hoping or thinking he said something different and changed what Jesus said because I'm sure that he didn't.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,782
1,686
113
Texas
#18
I could have a lot to do with the reality that when a lesson taught by Jesus, the Teacher, is shared online, people will not hear it, but they come baack with contradictory cherry-picked lines from writings of Paul when Jesus has been quite clear.

I have found more and more people posting only what Pul has written. Now if I learn something from Jesus directly it is not accepted, and I cannot aceptany one who denies Jesus in this manner, I believe they are false or deluded.
If you are finding contradiction between what Jesus taught and what his choosen apostles taught, then there is a misunderstanding
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
4,390
905
113
#19
Dead?

Re: "dead," it says this:

Romans 7:1-4 -

7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by [means of] the body of Christ; [in order] that ye should be married [/joined] to Another, even to Him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
I meant to quote an even closer translation for verse 4:

"Likewise, my brothers, you also have been put to death to the law through [by means of] the body of Christ, for [in order for] you to belong to Another, to the One having been raised out from the dead, so that we should bear fruit to God."
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,782
1,686
113
Texas
#20
Good grief guys Jesus fullfilled the law. It's not gone it's complete. Take a new perspective of it now as being written on your heart the perfect law of Liberty. Become the character of the reborn. The 10 personally traits, or character attributes, even passions. The ten way that I love the Lord.