Paul vs jesus

Timeline · May 26, 2014

saved1975 said:

[1]Paul isn't contradicting Jesus, Paul god all his revelations through Jesus, Gal 1: 11--12.
Paul was just stating that one cannot be saved by the law, But only through faith in Jesus.
Israel were self justifying themselves by there own righteousness in keeping the law, Just like a lot of false religions do today.
And Paul was saying salvation is by faith in Jesus.

[2]It's the same as point [1], keeping the commandments alone doesn't save anyone.
Keeping the law without being born again is just dead works.

[3]Paul never called himself "Father", He said it was through his Ministry that they were born again.

[4]The sacrifice that Jesus is talking about is different to Jesus being sacrificed for us, There is no contradiction there.

[5]James is talking about justification by works before men, Not for salvation, Whereas Paul is talking about justification by God, Justified, righteousness and salvation by God, are all the same meaning,
So we are saved, justified and made the righteousness of God by faith in what Jesus did for us.

[6]The law, [Word of God] is perfect, and Paul isn't contradicting Ps 19: 7.
There was a curse for being disobedient to the law, But now in Christ, Jesus has set us free from the curse.
The curse was under three main headings.
Death, poverty and sickness, And through Jesus we have been redeemed from death, poverty and sickness.

Gal 3: 7, says we that are of faith, [Born again Christians] are the children of Abraham.
In Lk 13: 11--16, there was a woman who had a spirit of infirmity, and in v16, Jesus said,
"Ought not this woman being a daughter of Abraham be healed", We as children of Abraham by virtue of being in Christ, Should be healed.

Gal 3: 9, says we are blessed with Abraham, And God blessed Abraham with ALL THINGS. Gen 24: 1.

There is no contradiction between Jesus and Paul

1 Corinthians 4:15 For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

Paul does say that, "I became your father", but just like any verse, it can be misunderstood. Or perhaps even improperly translated. This is the NASB.

But I agree, there is not contradiction between Jesus and Paul. As a matter of fact, Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. That is most likely the reason that Paul wrote most of the New Testament.

Good post.

Butch5 · May 26, 2014

TrueDanish said:

Why does paul try to teach other than what jesus said??Jesus said:"Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them."[Matt. 5:17,18]But Paul said:"Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified."[Rom. 10:4]Jesus said:"If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."[Matth-ew 19:17]But Paul said:"He (Jesus) brought an end to the commandments and demands found in Moses'Teachings..."[-Eph. 2:15]Jesus said:"And do not call anyone on earth'father,'for you have one Father, and he is in heaven."[Matthew 23:9]But Paul says:"For I became your father in Christ Jesus when I preached the Good News to you."[1 Corinthians 4:15]Jesus says:"Go and learn what this means,`I desire mercy, and not sacrifice."[Matt. 9:13]But Paul says:"For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed."[1Cor. 5:7]James said:"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."[James 2:24]But Paul says:"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.[Romans 3:28]Old Testment says:"The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul."[Psalm 19:7]But Paul said:"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law."[Galatians 3:13]

Their teaching isn't different, their not always talking about the same thing.

Nancyer · May 26, 2014

God has built in a kind of "Holy Tension" into His Word. Because we humans tend toward the extremes, swinging too far in one direction and then veering way to far in the other, God wrote balance points into Scripture. Principles that appear contradictory at first glance, but - when followed - help us grow straight and tall, strong and deep. ( from Joanna Weaver's Having a Mary Spirit )

Paul said salvation comes by faith and James said faith without works is dead. (in the sense, I believe, that if you had faith you would do the good works God has prepared in advance for you to do. You'd want to do good works if you truly had the faith that Christ is your Savior).

maxwel · May 26, 2014

TrueDanish said:

Why does paul try to teach other than what jesus said??Jesus said:"Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them."[Matt. 5:17,18]But Paul said:"Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified."[Rom. 10:4]Jesus said:"If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."[Matth-ew 19:17]But Paul said:"He (Jesus) brought an end to the commandments and demands found in Moses'Teachings..."[-Eph. 2:15]Jesus said:"And do not call anyone on earth'father,'for you have one Father, and he is in heaven."[Matthew 23:9]But Paul says:"For I became your father in Christ Jesus when I preached the Good News to you."[1 Corinthians 4:15]Jesus says:"Go and learn what this means,`I desire mercy, and not sacrifice."[Matt. 9:13]But Paul says:"For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed."[1Cor. 5:7]James said:"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."[James 2:24]But Paul says:"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.[Romans 3:28]Old Testment says:"The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul."[Psalm 19:7]But Paul said:"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law."[Galatians 3:13]

I'm sure that all Muslim's dislike Paul.

RedTent · May 26, 2014

Paul has always been accused of being against the first five books of the bible, as it tells us in Acts, Paul has always said that he wasn't. The Torah, as it is called, gives us the principles of God, it is basic to our understanding of Christ.

A basic principle is that when we are asked to walk within the kingdom, that instruction is for after we know the Lord, not before. Also, our walk done legalistically does not count except as a sort of crutch to help us remember the proper walk, as the rituals given were for. We have the Holy Spirit for that, now. Paul called these "the law of Moses". When people read what Paul says about the law of Moses, they throw out the law of spirit and truth and the acts we do that reflect that, along with the rituals.

When people read what Paul says about grace and faith, how it must precede all law, they say it means we should be against law. He never says that. He says we are under grace, not law for salvation, just as all scripture says. They forget that after grace, we are to walk in the kingdom.

Many people interpret Paul as being against God's instructions, as saying to disregard written law, even as someone who denies the Jews as people God created and used to show us His principles.

Paul is used to say we should ignore much of what the OT teaches when at the same time they say what Paul teaches is breathed by God. God would not say to ignore God.

Timeline · May 26, 2014

RedTent said:

The Old Testament is there to show you that Humans can not keep the Law of Moses. We cannot fulfill God's Law. I would think that everyone that has been over the OT and the Law of Moses would realize that. That is why Jesus fulfilled the Law - Because we can't. If you are perfect in every aspect but one. Then you have become guilty of the whole Law. We are under the Law of Grace and Love. Your two commandments are to love God and love you neighbor. You know that these two cover 9 out of 10 commandments from the original ten. If you read the requirements for the Sabbath. It is most often quite difficult and at times impossible.

John 7:19-24
[SUP]19 [/SUP]“Did not Moses give you the Law, and yet none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill Me?” [SUP]20 [/SUP]The crowd answered, “You have a demon! Who seeks to kill You?” [SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “I did one deed, and you all marvel. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For this reason Moses has given you circumcision (not because it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and on the Sabbath you circumcise a man. [SUP]23 [/SUP]If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses will not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made an entire man well on the Sabbath? [SUP]24 [/SUP]Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

Galatians 5:2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

Galatians 6:13
For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.

Jackson123 · May 26, 2014

I think brother Danish must hear this : vatican create muslim. Muslim not from God it is from vatican.

Think about it. Mohammad said the angel tell him about Moses story, etc.

His wife is catholic. of course his wife know about Moses.

Let say I declare my self as a prophet, than I said the angel tell me that Washington is the capital city of USA.

Do you believe ?

Muslim was born after bible

Muslim was born after the story of Moses available then Mohammad which know the story from his wife said that the angle come to him with his story.

Look at this video
Islam & Roman Catholicism: The New Crusades - Eric Jon Phelps - YouTube

Allin · May 26, 2014

Good answers. I was shocked to find, about a year ago, that there's a move to discredit Paul (if you can discredit one part of the Bible, you can toss all of it). They even have websites claiming that Paul and John (and others) said different things. The particular website I recall is owned by 'Jewish Christians'. I was dismayed that they even shared that they are Jews as it was apparent that 'the club' that Saul left to become Paul is still after him! As Joanna Weaver said, and many know, God purposely let the Bible paint extremes and what seem to be contradictions. "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; the glory (privilege) of kings is to search it out" (Pro. 25:2). Those who don't search or search and then give up will of course doubt and question what they haven't yet uncovered.

Jackson123 · May 26, 2014

[h=1]Quran & Bukhari prove Rome created Islam[/h]
Quran & Bukhari prove Rome created Islam - YouTube

saved1975 · May 26, 2014

Timeline said:

1 Corinthians 4:15 For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

Paul does say that, "I became your father", but just like any verse, it can be misunderstood. Or perhaps even improperly translated. This is the NASB.

But I agree, there is not contradiction between Jesus and Paul. As a matter of fact, Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. That is most likely the reason that Paul wrote most of the New Testament.

Good post.

That is a wrong translation.

Osiyo · May 26, 2014

Whatever, satan you have lost the game, you just don't know it! Praise be to God for the blood of the Lamb, a free gift, yes I believe is all one has to say. You have been rebuked satan by the Lord Jesus.

RedTent · May 26, 2014

Timeline said:

You are proving my point that Paul is being misinterpreted.

We are told to be perfect, and we are told that if we say we are, we are liars. We are to obey both!!! We are to do our best to be perfect, and we are to go to Christ for forgiveness when we aren't. Yet, you are saying that the entire purpose of the Old Testament is to show that we can't keep the law. It would be only the work of demons to try to make people believe they should not listen to a part of scripture. Demons want to get rid of God, to wipe out the words of God. Your teaching is helping demons make their point.

It has always been true that cutting a piece of flesh does nothing. People who do not know God could always do that. It is spirit and truth behind this act that counts. When, as we are told in Acts, Jews said that the cutting of flesh is what counts for salvation, Paul says no. So does the OT. So what is your point?

Hoffco · May 26, 2014

Paul is saying it is not the action of the deed or the act itself the saves, it is the faith or motive of the heart that saves. The act of circumcision is not necessary for salvation it is the new birth of God that is necessary. The act of being baptized does not save ,it is the faith and obedience on getting baptized that is necessary for salvation. In baptism I confess that I have died to sin and have been born by God to new life in Jesus. That is what saves. So when some one says, you must be baptized in order to be saved ,they error. No, I don't have to be circumcised or baptized in order yo be save . I do it because I am saved and am being saved by God and I am being saved by my action of living in faith and obedience., past and present. And living in faith for future grace. Because Jesus is the source of eternal life to as many as obey Him. And I know, I obey only because God has saved me. We must never deny the human side in salvation. Love to all, Hoffco

p_rehbein · May 26, 2014

TrueDanish said:

...........say.........was watching TV earlier, and I could have sworn I say your picture on the News............really.......I even made a copy..............

Kerry · May 26, 2014

The title of this thread is blasphemy. Paul vs. Jesus. Get a grip or buy a clue. Paul gave us the meaning of the cross as God revealed it to him. Paul said if any man boast let him boast in the cross.

Timeline · May 27, 2014

saved1975 said:

Yes, I don't know if it is or isn't, that is why I included a translation malfunction as a possibility

Timeline · May 27, 2014

RedTent said:

Mark 2:18-22
[SUP]18 [/SUP]John’s disciples and the Pharisees were fasting; and they *came and *said to Him, “Why do John’s disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees fast, but Your disciples do not fast?” [SUP]19 [/SUP]And Jesus said to them, “While the bridegroom is with them, the attendants of the bridegroom cannot fast, can they? So long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But the days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in that day.[SUP]21 [/SUP]“No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; otherwise the patch pulls away from it, the new from the old, and a worse tear results.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]No one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is lost and the skins as well; but one puts new wine into fresh wineskins.”

Hebrews 9:16
[SUP]15[/SUP]For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it.[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, [SUP]20 [/SUP]saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded you.” [SUP]21 [/SUP]And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

Leviticus 26:12 I will also walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people.

2 Corinthians 66 And working together with Him, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain— [SUP]2 [/SUP]for He says,
“At the acceptable time I listened to you,
And on the day of salvation I helped you.”

Behold, now is “the acceptable time,” behold, now is “the day of salvation”— [SUP]3 [/SUP]giving no cause for offense in anything, so that the ministry will not be discredited, [SUP]4 [/SUP]but in everything commending ourselves as servants of God, in much endurance, in afflictions, in hardships, in distresses, [SUP]5 [/SUP]in beatings, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in sleeplessness, in hunger, [SUP]6 [/SUP]in purity, in knowledge, in patience, in kindness, in the Holy Spirit, in genuine love, [SUP]7 [/SUP]in the word of truth, in the power of God; by the weapons of righteousness for the right hand and the left, [SUP]8 [/SUP]by glory and dishonor, by evil report and good report; regarded as deceivers and yet true; [SUP]9 [/SUP]as unknown yet well-known, as dying yet behold, we live; as punished yet not put to death, [SUP]10 [/SUP]as sorrowful yet always rejoicing, as poor yet making many rich, as having nothing yet possessing all things.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Our mouth has spoken freely to you, O Corinthians, our heart is opened wide. [SUP]12 [/SUP]You are not restrained by us, but you are restrained in your own affections. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Now in a like exchange—I speak as to children—open wide to us also.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? [SUP]15 [/SUP]Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? [SUP]16 [/SUP]Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,
“I will dwell in them and walk among them;
And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate,” says the Lord.
“And do not touch what is unclean;
And I will welcome you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“And I will be a father to you,
And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,”
Says the Lord Almighty."

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am (I AM) .”

1 John 2:1-2
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; [SUP]2 [/SUP]and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Hebrews 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

If the Old Covenant is obsolete and Jesus did not come to abolish the Law, then we end up with the Law of Grace. Allowing ourselves to be led by the Holy Spirit, under the new Law of Grace, we are made perfect in Jesus Christ. He satisfied the Law of Moses (from God), because He loves us. Because He knows that we cannot fulfill the Law. If you TRY to fulfill the Law of Moses, then you are denying Jesus Christ, The Way of Salvation. Jesus did it, Paul explained it. The Pharisees told Jesus that He cast of demons through the power of demons. All Christians should be wary of throwing around accusations of others working for demons who are not working for demons. I do not attack, but ask you to think about it.

Matthew 5:18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Luke 22:18 for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.”

John 19:30
Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.

saved1975 · May 27, 2014

Timeline said:

What Paul was saying is, "It's through my preaching the gospel to you that you were born again by Christ Jesus".

No one called Paul "Father", And Paul never told anyone to call him "Father".

Timeline · May 27, 2014

saved1975 said:

I am not pressing the issue. I do not believe that Paul would ask or even allow anyone to call him father. I was just quoting from the NASB. I try not to pretend that something is not written when it is. But more importantly, I was giving anyone a chance to either explain what was written or to show why it is a translation error. I have tried to use the Strong's and others, but have found that it usually doesn't clear anything up for me because there is an endless list of synonyms and they don't help with how the word is effected by the words around it in the scripture that is being considered.

I hope that wasn't too confusing, but if you have tried to use Strong's, I am sure that you know what I mean. Hopefully one day I will learn the greek, but even more, that the Holy Spirit will continue to help me with my understanding.

Elin · May 27, 2014

Kerry said:

Yes, because the OP is a blaspheming troll. . .who has been dispensed with.

Paul vs jesus

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