Paul was not qualified to be an apostle

[LovePink]

quite a few churches teach about dispensations....

what "truth of the gospel message given to Paul for our salvation" do you feel that most churches don't teach and how would it conflict with "their theology and pet doctrines"?


could you clarify what "their theology and pet doctrines" refers to?

Hello,

I was over in another topic thread, wowie zowie 0.o

I am considering some new topics, I will post some maybe today. I saw in that other thread, profiles have been banned. I'm saying this because of your questions, is it ok to talk about certain churches, doctrines and or beliefs in detail here or would that be considered bad, I don't know the rules. I can only speak for myself and of my own thoughts, feelings, experiences... I don't mind talking about my old religious denomination, I don't regret my religious experience. I have only been a member of one church and one type of religion/denom, but I have visited a handful of Christian denominations, by invitation or curiosity, so I can talk from that too.

Anyway, for your question I wil use the subject "the doctine of contrition" for a fairly inoffensive universal example. This btw is what I would say could be viewed as a pet doctine. Some churches teach, if a person is not contrite when confessing sins, their sins are retained unforgiven. This is about religious piety. The truth of the gospel message given to the apostle Paul is on a certain foundation laid by Paul, the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery, Rm 16:25. That being Christ, of course, the gospel for today includes preaching more than the death, burial and resurrection, it includes reconciliation, justification of the believer who trusts in what Christ did for them on that cross, it is finished. This means sin & sins have een paid for, dealt with. This is about God's justice being satified by Christs' righteousness, His perfect sacrafice. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing our tresspasses against us. When Paul says "accroding to my gospel", it is the resurrection according to the revelation given Him direct from God for this dispensation. To preach any other Christ, way of salvation, or gospel, is to preach a counterfeit, a false message, to be against God's testimony of His Son. So, to say a person should, well, do any number of things religious people do in the fleshly religious system of worshipping God, to say or instruct them to do more than trust Christ and believe God for the forgiveness of all their sins, past, present and future,

that is a false doctrine. Contrition is an affect of the flesh of a person that does not understand or believe the gospel of their salvation.

 

[BananaPie]

1. Jesus NEVER corrected anything Moses presented in the Law. What he often corrected was the Pharisee's misunderstanding and perversion of the things Moses wrote.

2. The Scripture always regards the Law of Moses as good, holy, pure, just, and right. Its origin was not the mind of Moses but the mouth of God.

Good God! OldHermit!

Are you sure you're not a cherub holding a treasure box of godly knowledge? Your way of communicating holy concepts is blasting sweet! The Lord is good.

 

[cfultz3]

LovePink,

If you would, I just have a question.

My understanding is that a person must repent (be contrite and seek forgiveness and walk no more in that path). The question is: how can someone come to God without having a contrite heart seeking reconciliation?

Thanks,

Chris

 

[oldhermit]

Good God! OldHermit!

Are you sure you're not a cherub holding a treasure box of godly knowledge? Your way of communicating holy concepts is blasting sweet! The Lord is good.

I really don't think there was anything extraordinary in what I said. It seemed rather obvious to me.

 

[iamsoandso]

Hello,

I was over in another topic thread, wowie zowie 0.o

I am considering some new topics, I will post some maybe today. I saw in that other thread, profiles have been banned. I'm saying this because of your questions, is it ok to talk about certain churches, doctrines and or beliefs in detail here or would that be considered bad, I don't know the rules. I can only speak for myself and of my own thoughts, feelings, experiences... I don't mind talking about my old religious denomination, I don't regret my religious experience. I have only been a member of one church and one type of religion/denom, but I have visited a handful of Christian denominations, by invitation or curiosity, so I can talk from that too.

Anyway, for your question I wil use the subject "the doctine of contrition" for a fairly inoffensive universal example. This btw is what I would say could be viewed as a pet doctine. Some churches teach, if a person is not contrite when confessing sins, their sins are retained unforgiven. This is about religious piety. The truth of the gospel message given to the apostle Paul is on a certain foundation laid by Paul, the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery, Rm 16:25. That being Christ, of course, the gospel for today includes preaching more than the death, burial and resurrection, it includes reconciliation, justification of the believer who trusts in what Christ did for them on that cross, it is finished. This means sin & sins have een paid for, dealt with. This is about God's justice being satified by Christs' righteousness, His perfect sacrafice. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing our tresspasses against us. When Paul says "accroding to my gospel", it is the resurrection according to the revelation given Him direct from God for this dispensation. To preach any other Christ, way of salvation, or gospel, is to preach a counterfeit, a false message, to be against God's testimony of His Son. So, to say a person should, well, do any number of things religious people do in the fleshly religious system of worshipping God, to say or instruct them to do more than trust Christ and believe God for the forgiveness of all their sins, past, present and future,

that is a false doctrine. Contrition is an affect of the flesh of a person that does not understand or believe the gospel of their salvation.

here's an idea

"If a man preached the Gospel of Christ and at the end of his life they cut of his head for his testimony,is he an apostle?",,,

 

[cfultz3]

I really don't think there was anything extraordinary in what I said. It seemed rather obvious to me.

But, not so apparent

 

[MidniteWelder]

It is God ...not man, who qualifies and equips "the called"
More so than calling the equipped, as is mans practice.
(now who would lead one to think in a mindset to do things backwards from Gods ways)


Paul was fully called and fully equipped by the Lord himself, as well as having been given knowledge of and shown some secrets of the kingdom he wasn't even able to discuss.

 

[BananaPie]

I really don't think there was anything extraordinary in what I said. It seemed rather obvious to me.

Ah! And you're humble too! Sounds about right.

Yes, Brother, "It seemed rather obvious to me" too. The Lord God makes marvelous sense to me, and I also understand what is arguing, finger-pointing, die-hard feisty arrogance tied to error; what it looks like, sounds like; it seems rather obvious to me that it breaks my heart with indignation.

Then the Lord restores these forums with godly thoughts from the ranks of the saints, which triggers joy in my heart again. I learn from the holy convictions of fellow believers. That's it really. The Lord is coming back, and His reward is with Him.

 

[cfultz3]

But, not so apparent

Olhermit,

I re-read this and it did not quite come out the way I wanted it to.

Re-wrote:

But, not so apparent to all......

 

[BananaPie]

"If a man preached the Gospel of Christ and at the end of his life they cut of his head for his testimony,is he an apostle?",,,

​Nah, he'd be a Christian martyr.

 

[iamsoandso]

here's a tough question about it all,,,,,,"was the word apostle invented by the Christians,or was it a word in the Greek launguage long before the first christian?'......

 

[iamsoandso]

​Nah, he'd be a Christian martyr.

,,,,"whom ye gave me",,,meaning those sent out to be given,,,,,

 

[LovePink]

LovePink,

If you would, I just have a question.

My understanding is that a person must repent (be contrite and seek forgiveness and walk no more in that path). The question is: how can someone come to God without having a contrite heart seeking reconciliation?

Thanks,

Chris

I am so sorry, but for the sake of all the personality types here, are we discussing Salvation. Salvation is not a process. So, when you say repent and I see you make a list, I wonder if you come from a view on sanctification.

Faith comes by hearing. Hearing the proper message. There is difference in the doctrine of men and the doctrine of God, theology is knowledge about God. The thing we want & should seek is, "the knowledge of God" 1 Cor 2

This starts by hearing the gospel of our salvation, trusting from the good ground of our heart and believing God. Eph 1:13-14. Until this happens we are dead, lost, unable to understand, because the carnal mind is at enmity with truth.

How many times did John the baptist call them to repent & be baptized once they had done it?

 

[iamsoandso]

bare in mind we use i suppose the "christian slang term apostle",,and apply it as a title,,,but long before the first christian the word apostle,apostalon ect and other forms were used in the Greek language to describe even other type meanings. these were not bound to people(humans) it could also mean a group of ships sent out for a certain purpose ect.,,,or a group of people sent out on a mission,,,,,but the same word pre-exist Christianity,,,,,,,

 

[cfultz3]

I am so sorry, but for the sake of all the personality types here, are we discussing Salvation. Salvation is not a process. So, when you say repent and I see you make a list, I wonder if you come from a view on sanctification.

Faith comes by hearing. Hearing the proper message. There is difference in the doctrine of men and the doctrine of God, theology is knowledge about God. The thing we want & should seek is, "the knowledge of God" 1 Cor 2

This starts by hearing the gospel of our salvation, trusting from the good ground of our heart and believing God. Eph 1:13-14. Until this happens we are dead, lost, unable to understand, because the carnal mind is at enmity with truth.

How many times did John the baptist call them to repent & be baptized once they had done it?

You said that the doctrine of contrition is false. If it is, then how does one come to accept Jesus as their Lord if they do not repent?

I gave a definition to what I meant by repent. It is said that the heart must be broken in order to come to Jesus. We go to the One who offers forgiveness and seek His forgiveness. He says, "Your sins are forgiven. Go and sin no more".

If there is no process to salvation, then the process of accepting Christ would also have to be deleted, seeing that it is a step in order to receive the salvation offered by Him.

I am speaking of those coming to Christ, not those who are in Christ. But, even they must also seek forgiveness when they walk contrary to the leading of the Spriit.

 

[Dwark]

the meaning I presented for 'apostle', as being: 'delegate, one who is sent, ambassador of the Gospel', is not what I have defined it as, but was taken from the Strong definition and is the same word which was used of the original 12 Apostles.

G652 ἀπόστολος apostolos ap-os'-tol-os

From G649; a delegate; specifically an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ (“apostle”), (with miraculous powers): - apostle, messenger, he that is sent.​

And if we would, let us go to G649 and see that Strong definition also.

G649 ἀποστέλλω apostellō ap-os-tel'-lo

From G575 and G4724; set apart, that is, (by implication) to send out (properly on a mission) literally or figuratively: - put in, send (away, forth, out), set [at liberty].​

There was no Strong's back in the day of Christ.

This link is a good start.

History & Meaning of the word "Apostle" - Ecclesium Website

​

I am certain that Paul was sent on a 'specific task' to the Gentiles by Christ Himself, starting from the meeting on the road.

I would agree.

Therefore, by your very definition you have presented in the replied to post, Paul must have been made an apostle by that resurrected Jew and Rabbi. Correct?

God in the flesh, Jesus Christ, a Jew and a Rabbi sent Paul on a mission, but we are not told that he named him an apostle. You cannot just add to scripture.

Jesus told the 12 whom he selected as apostles that they would sit on the 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes. God did not say 13, God did not say Paul was a switch hitter, God did not say anyone else was an apostle.

There were no ethnocentric prejudices involved when I gave that definition, but simply went to Scripture and searched.

Ethnocentricism is something that can hardly be helped. It is hard to step out of a paradigm.

 

[LovePink]

I was going to start a topic last night a few times, but I couldn't find the time to pour out the subject matter. Contrition and the two natures revealed n Scripture were ones I was in consideration over. Show me in the bible where God requires one to be contrite to approach Him or receive the free gift from Him by hearing the Gospel of Grace. The doctrine of contrition is man-made practice in religious attemps of piety and penance, nothing to do with God's requirement to trust His Son for the forgiveness of all our sins. Contrition is, in fact, not a part of sin nature or a part our new nature as saved persons. This is why, our new nature does not know sin, cannot know sin. And, sin nature does not have shame or feel guilt. So, contrition is what, it is an affect of sin in the flesh. These are my own thoughts of course. I came to understand this after my salvation. I do not suffer with contrition anymore, it is not good, right or healthy. It is a form of terror. Mind terror, Luther wrote a bit about it.

 

[LovePink]

You said that the doctrine of contrition is false. If it is, then how does one come to accept Jesus as their Lord if they do not repent?

I gave a definition to what I meant by repent. It is said that the heart must be broken in order to come to Jesus. We go to the One who offers forgiveness and seek His forgiveness. He says, "Your sins are forgiven. Go and sin no more".

If there is no process to salvation, then the process of accepting Christ would also have to be deleted, seeing that it is a step in order to receive the salvation offered by Him.

I am speaking of those coming to Christ, not those who are in Christ. But, even they must also seek forgiveness when they walk contrary to the leading of the Spriit.

My last post was in response to you, but I did not do it the right way, including the quote.

 

[LovePink]

Re: You Can Change it Like this

Everyone will have to change it until the posts replied to all have the desired title .....

I should have put, for the title;

Paul was over qualified to be an apostle.

 

[cfultz3]

There was no Strong's back in the day of Christ.

This link is a good start.

History & Meaning of the word "Apostle" - Ecclesium Website
[/INDENT]

Neither was this link (fun)

God in the flesh, Jesus Christ, a Jew and a Rabbi sent Paul on a mission, but we are not told that he named him an apostle. You cannot just add to scripture.

But it is Scripture which says that Paul was an apostle. I am of the believe that God is able to deliver His message undefiled and take what we call the "Holy Bible" as the unquestionable source of Truth. So, if Scripture in one part says that Paul is an apostle then he was one as defined by the very same word used of the 12 Apostles.

There is no point of view which can convince me to take 9 plain verses and discredit them just because Jesus did not physically choose Paul as an Apostle while He was on Earth, but became an Apostle after Christ's death. If the Scripture which is presented to me as God's written Word says that he became one, then so be it.

Jesus told the 12 whom he selected as apostles that they would sit on the 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes. God did not say 13, God did not say Paul was a switch hitter, God did not say anyone else was an apostle.

Judas, who Satan used to do his will against Christ, is by no means one of the Apostles, but is the son of prediction. It would seem that the one who Godly replaced him would be the twelfth.

You are correct, the twelve chosen by Jesus (God) will be on the twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. But, let us not forget that there will be 24 thrones. You and I agree, 12 are for the 12 tribes of Israel. But of the other 12? Shall not the saints judge the world (1Co 6:2-3)? Is not PAUL speaking to Christians here?

I would conclude that the Gentiles, who became those saints, would also have 12 seats. And since Paul was the GODLY ordained person sent to deliver His Message to the Gentiles, then he is the Apostle to the Gentiles and would be in possession of one of those twelve Saintly seats.