As in Wooley Mammoths? 
View attachment 129556
In this case I'll choose God...
Tin does it again lol.
View attachment 129556
In this case I'll choose God...
Tin does it again lol.
Personal ministries thwarted!
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Hey! Who took that photograph?
If a particular church does not budget and allocate its funds in a way you approve of; you should find one that does!
In a properly functioning church, the pastor has far more responsibility than bringing a sermon.
He should be training members to lead small group Bible studies and accountability groups mid week and leading one himself.
We are told in Scripture: Eph 4:11-12
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
KJV
Regardless what your church charter may say on the subject, God's Word says that the primary task of the gifted men (people) God has called in the Church is training and preparing believers to do the work of the ministry.
In addition a pastor's role should include personal discipleship and visitation of the sick, injured, and elderly.
In a well functioning church this can go far beyond a full time job.
In the Church in which I serve (NOT AS PASTOR), only 35% of our budget goes to staff and physical plant expenses.
65% of our budget goes to outreach ministries including missions.
When a church calls a man (or woman) to full time service, they incur an obligation to support him/her so he/she can meet his/her family's needs.
I am not trying to stir up the issue of female clergy here. I am thinking of roles like nurse or director of women's ministry.
Our pastor NEVER preaches on tithing or giving; but giving is consistently at 140-160% of budget.
In a properly functioning church, the pastor has far more responsibility than bringing a sermon.
He should be training members to lead small group Bible studies and accountability groups mid week and leading one himself.
We are told in Scripture: Eph 4:11-12
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
KJV
Regardless what your church charter may say on the subject, God's Word says that the primary task of the gifted men (people) God has called in the Church is training and preparing believers to do the work of the ministry.
In addition a pastor's role should include personal discipleship and visitation of the sick, injured, and elderly.
In a well functioning church this can go far beyond a full time job.
In the Church in which I serve (NOT AS PASTOR), only 35% of our budget goes to staff and physical plant expenses.
65% of our budget goes to outreach ministries including missions.
When a church calls a man (or woman) to full time service, they incur an obligation to support him/her so he/she can meet his/her family's needs.
I am not trying to stir up the issue of female clergy here. I am thinking of roles like nurse or director of women's ministry.
Our pastor NEVER preaches on tithing or giving; but giving is consistently at 140-160% of budget.
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Well no, it is chaos and heresy that exists many times IN the institutional church, and if it is there, we have to get away from it in order to do what God wants us to do...then we know there will be His kind of order...rather than the traditions of men that make God's word of none effect, so to speak.
It must be wonderful to have a really good fellowship. I accept that they exist somewhere but unfortunately not where I live, so far. It seems to me that one mention of the word homeless and you can't see anyone for dust. I know people are a bit scared of the problem and don't know what to do about it, but ignoring it isn't going to help anyone. I tried everything I could think of, including politely writing to as many churches as I could find in my locality and even beyond it, just asking for five minutes to TALK about what it is like for them out there on the street. Out of twenty letters I received only one reply, and that was to tell me off. Kind of wierd.
If anyone has a good fellowship where they encourage you to to discover your calling and go and do what God has called you to, while loving you to bits, praying for you and teaching sound doctrine....hang on tight because that is rare and precious!
It must be wonderful to have a really good fellowship. I accept that they exist somewhere but unfortunately not where I live, so far. It seems to me that one mention of the word homeless and you can't see anyone for dust. I know people are a bit scared of the problem and don't know what to do about it, but ignoring it isn't going to help anyone. I tried everything I could think of, including politely writing to as many churches as I could find in my locality and even beyond it, just asking for five minutes to TALK about what it is like for them out there on the street. Out of twenty letters I received only one reply, and that was to tell me off. Kind of wierd.
If anyone has a good fellowship where they encourage you to to discover your calling and go and do what God has called you to, while loving you to bits, praying for you and teaching sound doctrine....hang on tight because that is rare and precious!
I think Yet should look for a new church! No wait... he has given up on churches.
I am blessed to have been in churches that not only paid the pastor for working 60-80 hours a week, but also contributed to missions and outreach in amazing ways. The last church I was in had 300 people, and we gave over $100,000 annually to world wide missions, including a hospital in Cameroon, where many were healed, and saved!
Yet, your bitterness and jealousy is getting tedious. As the Lord to deliver you from it. All you need to do is ask!
By the way, I am a pastor. I have volunteered in long term care for years, and I help out in my church including music ministry, teaching and preaching. I have not accepted a penny, and I feel totally blessed that God has opened up the windows of heaven and blessed me in my local church.
Oh, I don't really believe there is a biblical basis for tithes, but my husband does, so we tithe. God has also blessed us. We have never gone begging, although for many years we lived on a $0 bank balance. It taught us to depend upon God totally and to trust him in everything.
I am blessed to have been in churches that not only paid the pastor for working 60-80 hours a week, but also contributed to missions and outreach in amazing ways. The last church I was in had 300 people, and we gave over $100,000 annually to world wide missions, including a hospital in Cameroon, where many were healed, and saved!
Yet, your bitterness and jealousy is getting tedious. As the Lord to deliver you from it. All you need to do is ask!
By the way, I am a pastor. I have volunteered in long term care for years, and I help out in my church including music ministry, teaching and preaching. I have not accepted a penny, and I feel totally blessed that God has opened up the windows of heaven and blessed me in my local church.
Oh, I don't really believe there is a biblical basis for tithes, but my husband does, so we tithe. God has also blessed us. We have never gone begging, although for many years we lived on a $0 bank balance. It taught us to depend upon God totally and to trust him in everything.
T
As in Wooley Mammoths?
View attachment 129556
In this case I'll choose God...
Tin does it again lol.
View attachment 129556
In this case I'll choose God...
Tin does it again lol.
We are to pray for our pastors, not condemn. We are to be obedient, not let our carnal mind take over. You just do what the Lord tells you and do not worry about the rest. You can still have street ministry, why does it take so much money
Preach the word in season and out of season. What or who is talking you out of going to church? Don't miss your purpose.
Preach the word in season and out of season. What or who is talking you out of going to church? Don't miss your purpose.
Hi again all,
I agree with the above to a great extent, however...
You don't need any money to give the Gospel as Jesus says, Matt 10:8 "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. "
You do however need some money or resources to do the other stuff we are commanded to as follows:
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
There is a solution for us in the following verses:
Eph 4: Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Thess 4: 9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another. 10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more; 11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you; 12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
I believe God honours efforts to supply help to the needy but you have to wonder what kind of christians they are who refuse to do so, as follows:
1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
This is where you can become disillusioned with the local church and probably asking yourself some difficult questions, like, “if the love of God is not in the people at the church I attend, what am I doing there?” WHAT INDEED!
For me, the beginning of my street work exactly coincided with an uncomfortable revelation about where my church was at, and believe me there were many more bad things going on in there than I had ever imagined when I first joined it. But I resolved that I would do what God was telling me in spite of the evil behaviour I was witnessing around me, and like Yet, there were miraculous moments experienced on the street.
But you never get rid of that terrible disappointment of knowing that there are those who name the name of Christ but do it with hearts of stone towards the needy, and evil towards anyone who wants to do it God’s way.
Bitterness is not the answer for us obviously, but as a passing emotion it is a small thing against the enormity of what evil must going on in other parts of the institutional church. There are two of us here who have experienced it, and if there are two, there are more.
I agree with the above to a great extent, however...
You don't need any money to give the Gospel as Jesus says, Matt 10:8 "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. "
You do however need some money or resources to do the other stuff we are commanded to as follows:
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
There is a solution for us in the following verses:
Eph 4: Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Thess 4: 9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another. 10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more; 11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you; 12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
I believe God honours efforts to supply help to the needy but you have to wonder what kind of christians they are who refuse to do so, as follows:
1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
This is where you can become disillusioned with the local church and probably asking yourself some difficult questions, like, “if the love of God is not in the people at the church I attend, what am I doing there?” WHAT INDEED!
For me, the beginning of my street work exactly coincided with an uncomfortable revelation about where my church was at, and believe me there were many more bad things going on in there than I had ever imagined when I first joined it. But I resolved that I would do what God was telling me in spite of the evil behaviour I was witnessing around me, and like Yet, there were miraculous moments experienced on the street.
But you never get rid of that terrible disappointment of knowing that there are those who name the name of Christ but do it with hearts of stone towards the needy, and evil towards anyone who wants to do it God’s way.
Bitterness is not the answer for us obviously, but as a passing emotion it is a small thing against the enormity of what evil must going on in other parts of the institutional church. There are two of us here who have experienced it, and if there are two, there are more.
For all of the ills and errors in "institutional" churches, I have seen FAR more in independent home fellowships, or with those that choose to worship on their own. Many of these groups believe EVERY group is too flawed to fellowship with, so they choose to isolate themselves from everyone.
This is anti-Scripture.
This is anti-Scripture.
Come on now, this is fantasy! How many independent home fellowships have you been to? I mean really, how many? And how many home fellowships did you stay long enough at to find our what they really believed? Maybe people sometimes LIKE the impersonal church environment because it is an excuse to be cool with each other, whereas we are commanded to LOVE.
Also you are saying that "those who choose to worship on their own" are doing it wrong also. How would you know? How would you know, if they were on their own? I mean, if they were on their own, you wouldn't be there would you?
Jesus said plainly, Matt 18:20, Wherever two or three are gathered in My name, I am among them. He speaks of true believers here, not the many who are content to be part of any kind of assembly no matter what they teach or what they do. If we are true believers, and if we are forced to gather as only two or three, for whatever reason, the Lord Jesus is with us. That is 100% Gospel scripture.
Also you are saying that "those who choose to worship on their own" are doing it wrong also. How would you know? How would you know, if they were on their own? I mean, if they were on their own, you wouldn't be there would you?
Jesus said plainly, Matt 18:20, Wherever two or three are gathered in My name, I am among them. He speaks of true believers here, not the many who are content to be part of any kind of assembly no matter what they teach or what they do. If we are true believers, and if we are forced to gather as only two or three, for whatever reason, the Lord Jesus is with us. That is 100% Gospel scripture.
K
Back in the 80s home fellowship was popular,my parents were involved in it.It was done through the church and the pastor was careful about who led the fellowship.It was a means to get people into church and worked well.If done through the church I wouldnt have a problem.We were between churches several years ago and our church met in peoples homes until we found a place big enough to meet together.I liked the informality and the Spirit moved because of that I think.People that I had never heard pray in public would pray in those services. Could ask questions and feel comfortable to pray with one another.We had some beautiful meetings.I see nothing wrong with it done properly.
Many. I've been to many, and in several different cities. If I hadn't been, I wouldn't feel comfortable saying so. Besides, if you read what I wrote again, I never said that ALL home fellowships are guilty of it.
Notice again that I didn't say "where 2 or more" or gathered. I said those who worship on their own. Where 2 or 3 are gathered is different than isolation. And you don't have to go somewhere to know that they're own their own. People often tell others plainly that they do so.
I agree, and I didn't say otherwise.
Notice again that I didn't say "where 2 or more" or gathered. I said those who worship on their own. Where 2 or 3 are gathered is different than isolation. And you don't have to go somewhere to know that they're own their own. People often tell others plainly that they do so.
I agree, and I didn't say otherwise.