Peter NOT the 1st pope and the keys of the kingdom

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wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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#81
There has been schisms in the church and even in the first century. Paul addresses one or more of these schisms in his letters. Paul's appeal to the Corinthians concerned a person or people that opposed Paul. The Corinthian church was a splintered church, factions existed in the Corinthian church. Was the Corinthian church alone in this behavior. You can bet your life that as the churches grew, factional elements would also grow. Hence, we have numerous Church councils to address an extraordinary amount of disputes.

Church history has had ongoing schisms from Paul's time, up until the present day. In fact, schisms date back to the era of Moses.

I assume your usage of the word, 'baptized', is referring to the baptism of fire, or I hope it is.
Water baptised by immersion of believers only
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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#82
Water baptised by immersion of believers only
We differ on that one.

John's baptism was symbolic of the baptism that Jesus would initiate.

Jesus fulfilled the baptism of John with the baptism of fire (Holy Spirit).

Matthew 3:11
As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Did Jesus baptize the disciples with the Holy Spirit or with water?
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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#83
We differ on that one.

John's baptism was symbolic of the baptism that Jesus would initiate.

Jesus fulfilled the baptism of John with the baptism of fire (Holy Spirit).

Matthew 3:11
As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Did Jesus baptize the disciples with the Holy Spirit or with water?
Good question.

Obviously the Holy Spirit baptised them .. not water baptism in Acts 2.

Hmmmm...

I'm supposing that the disciples were also baptised by immersion in water. So they would have had both... but I need to check this..

Thank you
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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#84
Good question.

Obviously the Holy Spirit baptised them .. not water baptism in Acts 2.

Hmmmm...

I'm supposing that the disciples were also baptised by immersion in water. So they would have had both... but I need to check this..

Thank you
This is not an easy one.

It looks as though the early church baptized in water but perhaps later they understood the fulfillment.

Acts 1:5
For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

Acts 11:16
And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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#85
This is not an easy one.

It looks as though the early church baptized in water but perhaps later they understood the fulfillment.

Acts 1:5
For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

Acts 11:16
And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
Yes, also there is a key thing of the Holy Spirit indwelling a believer and then a group having the Holy Spirit come 'in the midst' or 'upon' them.

Two different roles of the Holy Spirit among others.

And baptised with water.. could also be translated 'in water'.. as it should be with the immersion baptism.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#86
Peter was not the first Pope according to whom? The Bishop of Rome. If you look at it historically, the same Church Fathers who tell us who wrote the Gospels also tell us that the Apostle Peter was the First Bishop of Rome. And very credible Church Historians, of every denomination, know that the first 4 or 10 list of Bishops of Rome included St. Peter the Apostle.

The succession list of bishops in the apostolic see of Rome of the first two centuries as provided by Philip Schaff (volume 2, History of the Christian Church, page 166) is --
  • St. Peter (d. 64 or 67)
  • St. Linus (67-76)
  • St. Anacletus (76-88)
  • St. Clement I (88-97) ...
  • "It must in justice be admitted, however, that the list of Roman bishops has by far the preminence in age, completeness, integrity of succession, consistency of doctrine and policy, above every similar catalogue, not excepting those of Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople...." (Schaff, page 166)
See also Wikipedia itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes#1st_century These are simple historical facts.

God Bless.

God Bless.
Not true friend.
 
Nov 26, 2021
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#87
Just passing through for now. Will be back shortly to answer. As I mentioned earlier, St. Irenaeus, who tells us that already in the 2nd Century, the Church of Rome, being the Apostolic Church of St. Peter, was a great and universally respected Church in Christendom, is also one of our main Early Witnesses for who wrote the 4 Holy Gospels and when:

"Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome, and laying the foundations of the Church. After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter. Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him. Afterwards, John, the disciple of the Lord, who also had leaned upon His breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia."

The Church Fathers always held to and defended the traditional authorship and Apostolic orign of the Gospels. Many of those who reject the Church Fathers today now believe the Gospels were written late, are anonymous, not from the Apostles etc and have become liberals. That's just one e.g. of how rejection of the Church Fathers leads to liberalism even concerning the Gospels.

As I mentioned in another thread that Darwins false theory of Evolution (which also contradicts the traditional interpretation of Genesis) is one of the reasons for the widespread loss of Christian Faith in much of the West today, so also another reason for that loss of Faith is the false idea, held by many liberals, that Christs Disciples themselves did not write the Gospels but others did. The best way to refute those liberal errors is from the Church Fathers.

I wrote an article about that for 1P5, mentioning Sir William Ramsay, an Oxford educated Archaeologist, who once believed that and was a non-Christian and skeptic. Yet later on, his study showed him the Gospels were accurate, the Church Fathers were right, and he became a Christian. Will share the links later on, as I'm on my phone right now.

God bless.
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
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#88
Ok, back now. So, first, here's the link for what St. Irenaeus wrote: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103301.htm

And article on most likely dates the Gospels were written https://onepeterfive.com/matthew-first-dates-gospels/

Now, Inquisitor, let's come back to our discussion:

The Orthodox church in Antioch preceded the church in Rome.
There was no separate entity called the "Orthodox Church" until the Schism broke out much later. I already showed you from 2nd Century Church Father Saint Irenaeus that the Church of Rome, being the Apostolic Church where St. Peter and St. Paul preached and were buried, held a pre-eminent place in the Universal Church of his time. What is your response to that?

Here's the passage again:
"that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority [potiorem principalitatem].

3. The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome dispatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles ... In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth." Taken from: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103303.htm

Again, just because Calvin claimed there was no Hierarchy in Early Christianity doesn't mean he was right. Every Local Church had Bishops, Presbyters and Deacons. And when there was a doubt or difficulty, they would ask the Roman Church.

St. Irenaeus clearly says above that the Church of Rome had Pre-Eminent Authority because of its relation to Peter/Pauletc

2) Second question. I also quoted for you Apostolic Father St. Ignatius, who incidentally was from Antioch. This Church Father also bears witness that there were Bishops, Presbyters and Deacons in the Early Church, something the Orthodox Church fully agrees with 100%. Even the Anglican Church or Church or England largely preserves this threefold order.

St. Ignatius of Antioch wrote his own glorious martyrdom for the Lord Jesus before 107 A.D. Some records say he was one of the children that the Lord Jesus held in His lap. Do you believe he was wrong, on what Early Christianity was like?

3) Thirdly, you will notice St. Irenaeus mentions St. Clement of Rome, the 4th Pope above, as dispatching a powerful letter to settle a disciplinary or doctrinal controversy in the Early Church. Here is Historian Philip Schaff with more on that:

"Philip Schaff, the Protestant historian, writes: The first example of the exercise of a sort of papal authority is found towards the close of the first century in the letter of the Roman bishop Clement (d. 102) to the bereaved and distracted church of Corinth. This epistle, full of beautiful exhortations to harmony, love, and humility, was sent, as the very address shows, not in the bishop’s own name, which is not mentioned at all, but in that of the Roman congregation, which speaks always in the first person plural. It was a service of love, proffered by one church to another in time of need. Similar letters of instruction, warning and comfort were written to other congregations by Ignatius, Polycarp, Dionysius of Corinth, Irenaeus.

Nevertheless it can hardly be denied that the document reveals the sense of a certain superiority over all ordinary congregations. The Roman church here, without being asked (as far as appears), gives advice, with superior administrative wisdom, to an important church in the East, dispatches messengers to her, and exhorts her to order and unity in a tone of calm dignity and authority, as the organ of God and the Holy Spirit. This is all the more surprising if St. John, as is probable, was then still living in Ephesus, which was nearer to Corinth than Rome." What Schaff relates basically shows that even St. John, while he was still alive, preferred the Bishop of Rome to settle the issue. Think about that for a moment.

Above taken from: https://eclecticanecdotes.com/2021/10/philip-schaff-on-pope-clement-i

Will post Scriptures on the issue subsequently. Please note I already showed earlier on, from the Greek, that different Greek words are used for Episcopous (Bishop) and Presbyterous (Presbyter/Priest in the NT). Some English translations, with an anti-clerical bent, mask this distinction which is clearly present in the Greek. Hence, some think there are no Bishops in the Church per the Bible, but that is based on a translation error. For now, I post the relevant verses in English.

"Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you Bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood." (Acts 20:28)

"For this reason I left you in Crete so that you might set right what remains to be done and appoint Presbyters in every town, as I directed you" (Tit 1:5)

"to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a Priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit." (Rom 15:16)

Even in the OT, there was hierarchy. Think of Moses, Aaron etc ministering as Priests for the people. So also, in the NT, there is.

We'll look at the Greek root words in a subsequent post. God Bless.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#89
Ok, so since the discussion has turned to the Orthodox Church, here's a brief history: for the first 1000 years, in both East and West, there was only One Church. In the Nicene Creed, Universally Accepted, it was professed that the Church is "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic". The word Catholic means Universal. Then, in 1054 A.D. a minor controversy broke out about Unleavened Bread. The Greek Churches use Leavened Bread. The Latins use Unleavened. A very minor issue. Both Churches share the fundamentally same believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Christ, and not a mere symbol, as John 6, 1 Cor 10 and 11 also imply. Finally, both Churches recognize the Bishops and Presbyters (Priests) are distinct Orders.

Anyway, Pope Francis and Patriarch Bartholomew (leader of the Greek Orthodox Church) agreed to hold some kind of Council in Nicaea in 2025, inviting all Christians to join. See: https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/nicea-iii-2025 Nicaea I was in 325 A.D. and this is to commemorate that. Nicea defended the Divinity of Christ against Arians who denied it and the Trinity.

Now, let's come back to the Papacy: Even a cursory glance at the Church Fathers of the First Millenium (when there was no East-West/Catholic-Orthodox Schism, but only One Universal Church in both East and West) shows they did recognize that the Chair or See of Peter in Rome has a special authority and that all the Bishops of the Church should be in communion.

Some examples: observe how the Fathers of both East and West agree in exegeting Mat 16:18 about the Chair of Peter.

St. Augustine (Latin/Western): “Number the Bishops from the Chair of Peter itself. And in that order of Fathers see who succeeded whom, That is the Rock against which the gates of hell do not prevail.” Psalmus contra partem Donati, 18 (A.D. 393).

St. Jerome (Latin/Western): My words are spoken to the successor of the fisherman, to the disciple of the cross. As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is with the chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the Rock on which the Church is built! (Letter 15, para 2). See source online here: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3001015.htm

St. Theodore (Greek/Byzantine): "Order that the declaration from old Rome be received, as was the custom by Tradition of our Fathers from of old and from the beginning. For this, O Emperor, is the highest of the Churches of God, in which first Peter held the Chair, to whom the Lord said: Thou art Peter ...and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Theodore, Bk. II. Ep. 86)

If anyone wants to read more such sources, from the East, please see: https://www.fisheaters.com/easternfathers.html

Study the History of the First Millenium and you will see that, while, sure, a few mistakes were made here and there, on the whole Christianity flourished greatly and did very well. How, after all, did almost all of Europe become Christian? Take the e.g. of Ireland. You will see it was Rome, under Pope Celestine, that sent St. Patrick to Ireland. At his arrival, almost the whole nation was pagan/polytheist/unbaptized. At his death, nearly the entire was Christian/Monotheist/Trinitarian. This is a very well known fact. Now, take another e.g. Great Britain. Did Angels perhaps come from Heaven and make it Christian to begin with? Not at all, again it was Pope St. Gregory the Great that sent St. Augustine of Canterbury there, with 40 monks. By prayer and preaching, fasting and sacrifices etc, virtually the entire nation was converted to Jesus Christ. Similar instances happen with St. Remy in France and St. Boniface in Germany. Virtually always, the Church of Rome was at the centre of Evangelism of new areas for Jesus Christ, and also, being in Europe herself, kept Europe and the Entire Church, Greek, Latin, Syrian etc, united in One Universal Church. Unfortunately, in the Second Millenium, some divisions broke out.

God Bless.
Wrong! The break between the Roman & Greek churches was because of the filioque clause!
"Prominent among these were the procession of the Holy Spirit (Filioque),"

"Filioque, Latin for "and (from) the Son", was added in Western Christianity to the Latin text of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, which also varies from the original Greek text in having the additional phrase Deum de Deo (God from God) and in using the singular "I believe" (Latin, Credo, Greek Πιστεύω) instead of the original "We believe" (Greek Πιστεύομεν), which Oriental Orthodoxy preserves."

"Filioque states that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son as well as from the Father, a doctrine accepted by the Catholic Church, by Anglicanism and by Protestant churches in general. Christians of these groups generally include it when reciting the Nicene Creed. Nonetheless, these groups recognize that Filioque is not part of the original text established at the First Council of Constantinople in 381, and they do not demand that others too should use it when saying the Creed. Indeed, the Catholic Church does not add the phrase corresponding to Filioque (καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ) to the Greek text of the Creed, even in the liturgy for Latin Rite Catholics.

At the 879–880 Council of Constantinople the Eastern Orthodox Church anathematized the Filioque phrase, "as a novelty and augmentation of the Creed", and in their 1848 encyclical the Eastern Patriarchs spoke of it as a heresy. It was qualified as such by some of the Eastern Orthodox Church's saints, including Photios I of Constantinople, Mark of Ephesus, and Gregory Palamas, who have been called the Three Pillars of Orthodoxy. The Eastern church believes by the Western church inserting the Filioque unilaterally (without consulting or holding council with the East) into the Creed, that the Western Church broke communion with the East.[

Minor things like the difference between leavened & unleavened bread could have easily been resolved!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East–West_Schism
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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#90
the "church" is the body of believers, not a denomination or man made organization anyway.
 

TheLearner

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#92
1. Jesus changes Simon's name to Peter which means Rock. When God changed Abram's name to Abraham, He was giving him a new function, a new responsibility. Similarly, when Christ renamed Simon as Rock, it had a purpose. What was it?

Here is a Protestant commentary: "The obvious pun which has made its way into the Gk. text as well suggests a material identity between petra and petros, the more so as it is impossible to differentiate strictly between the meanings of the two words. On the other hand, only the fairly assured Aramaic original of the saying enables us to assert with confidence the formal and material identity between petra and petros: petra = Kepha = petros....Since Peter, the rock of the Church, is thus given by Christ Himself, the master of the house (Is. 22:22; Rev. 3:7), the keys of the kingdom of heaven, he is the human mediator of the resurrection, and he has the task of admitting the people of God into the kingdom of the resurrection...The idea of the Reformers that He is referring to the faith of Peter is quite inconceivable in view of the probably different setting of the story...For there is no reference here to the faith of Peter. Rather, the parallelism of 'thou art Rock' and 'on this rock I will build' shows that the second rock can only be the same as the first. It is thus evident that Jesus is referring to Peter, to whom He has given the name Rock. He appoints Peter, the impulsive, enthusiastic, but not persevering man in the circle, to be the foundation of His ecclesia. To this extent Roman Catholic exegesis is right and all Protestant attempts to evade this interpretation are to be rejected." (Cullmann, article on "Rock" (petros, petra) trans. and ed. by Geoffrey W. Bromiley, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament [Eerdmans Publishing, 1968], volume 6, page 98, 107, 108)" Taken from: http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/PeterRockKeysPrimacyRome.htm

2. Again, it is confirmed by the fact that Christ gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. He explained that the purpose or function of these keys was to bind and loose on Earth what He promised would be bound and loosed in Heaven. In Jewish Rabbinic terminology, bind and loose was understood to mean binding pronouncements on doctrine and discipline. Source: "M. Eugene Boring (Disciples of Christ), commenting on the "keys of the kingdom of heaven," "binding" and "loosing" from Matthew 16:19 --"The 'kingdom of heaven' is represented by authoritative teaching, the promulgation of authoritative Halakha that lets heaven's power rule in earthly things...Peter's role as holder of the keys is fulfilled now, on earth, as chief teacher of the church....The keeper of the keys has authority within the house as administrator and teacher (cf. Isa 22:20-25, which may have influenced Matthew here).

The language of binding and loosing is rabbinic terminology for authoritative teaching, for having the authority to interpret the Torah and apply it to particular cases, declaring what is permitted and what is not permitted. Jesus, who has taught with authority (7:29) and has given his authority to his disciples (10:1, 8), here gives the primary disciple the authority to teach in his name -- to make authoritative decisions pertaining to Christian life as he applies the teaching of Jesus to concrete situations in the life of the church." (Boring, page 346)

Look at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. There was doctrinal dispute over whether circumcision was necessary for Christians. St. Peter was the first to rise up and decide the disputed question. This is what "binding and loosing" means.

Acts 15:"5 "But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” 6So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter.

7After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith."

Magenta, agreed that Peter was an elder/presbyter. Every Bishop is a Presbyter, though every Presbyter is not a Bishop. Bishops can ordain Presbyters, but Presbyters cannot ordain Bishops. The Apostles ordained Presbyters wherever they went. They were Bishops. Bishops, Presbyters and Deacons are offices that have succeeded to the three offices in Israel: High Priests, Priests and Levites. In the OT, God says of the Gentiles: "And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites,” says the LORD." (Isa 66:21). That has happened now in the New Covenant.

God Bless.
Isaiah 22:22-25
Easy-to-Read Version
22 “I will put the key to David’s house around his neck. If he opens a door, no one will be able to close it. If he closes a door, no one will be able to open it. 23 He will be like a favorite chair in his father’s house. I will make him like a strong peg in a solid board. 24 All the honored and important things of his father’s house will hang on him. All the adults and little children will depend on him. They will be like little dishes and big water bottles hanging on him.”

25 The Lord All-Powerful said, “At that time the peg that is now in the solid board will get weak and break. It will fall to the ground, and everything hanging on it will be destroyed. Then everything I said in this message will happen. It will happen because the Lord said it would.”
 

TheLearner

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#93
East-West Schism, also called Schism of 1054

Apostolic and Ante-Nicene Era
Conciliar Era
  • 325 Original Nicene Creed ratified at First Ecumenical Council.
  • 330 Founding of Constantinople as New Rome, renaming the city of Byzantium.
  • 357 Pope Liberius signs Semi-Arian creed (possibly under duress).
  • 379 Emperor Gratian permits Roman pope authority over neighboring bishops.
  • 381 Nicene Creed expanded at Second Ecumenical Council.
  • 382 First use of papal title Pontifex Maximus, as Emperor Gratian relinquishes the former pagan imperial religious title and bestows it on Pope Damasus I of Rome.[1][note 1]
  • 395-405 Series of correspondences between Augustine of Hippo and Jerome, where Augustine maintains the validity of the Septuagint, while Jerome favours the Hebrew (Rabinnical) Bible which becomes the OT basis for the Latin Vulgate.[note 2]
  • 410 Rome sacked by Visigoth invaders.
  • 417 Pope Zosimus waffles on Pelagianism.
  • 447 Pope Leo I wrote to the bishops of Sicily, rebuking them for permitting baptism at Epiphany, as the Greeks did, and ordering them to observe the Roman custom of baptizing on Easter and Whitsunday.[2]
  • 451 Fourth Ecumenical Council notes that Rome's primacy is because it was "the imperial city"; Tome of Pope St. Leo I endorsed by Council after review.
  • 455 Rome sacked by Vandals.
  • 476 Fall of the Western Roman Empire as Romulus Augustulus, the last Western Roman emperor, is deposed by the German Odoacer, leaving the emperor in the Greek East as the sole imperial authority, and an unstable political environment in the West where the Church of Rome slowly developed a centralized structure, concentrating religious as well as secular authority in the office of the Pope, the Bishop of Rome.[note 3]
 

TheLearner

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#94
  • ca. 537 Pope Vigilius allegedly writes letter endorsing Monophysitism.
  • 537-752 Byzantine Papacy.
  • 589 Insertion of Filioque into Nicene Creed by local council in Toledo, Spain.
  • ca. 590-604 Pope St. Gregory the Great rejects the title of "universal bishop" for any bishop.
  • 663-668 The island of Sicily passed to the Greek rite during the six years when Constans II made Syracuse his residence and the capital of the Byzantine Empire.[2]
  • 680-681 Sixth Ecumenical Council anathematizes Pope Honorius as a Monothelite heretic.[note 4]
  • 692 The Pentarchy form of government of universal Christendom by five patriarchal sees received formal ecclesiastical sanction at the Council in Trullo, held in Constantinople, which ranked the five sees as Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem.
  • 710 Last papal visit to Constantinople until 1967.
  • ca. 750 Forging of the Donation of Constantine, a false document claiming to be from St. Constantine granting universal secular power to the Pope and his successors.
  • 732-33 Byzantine Emperor Leo the Isaurian transfers the territories of Southern Italy (Sicily and Calabria), Greece, and the Aegean away from the jurisdiction of the Pope to that of the Ecumenical Patriarch in response to Pope St. Gregory III of Rome's support of a revolt in Italy against iconoclasm, in effect throwing the Papacy out of the Empire.
  • 752 Founding of Papal States (lasting until 1870).
 

TheLearner

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#95
Estrangement and Schism
  • 792 Charlemagne accuses "Greeks" of deleting Filioque from original Creed.
  • 800 Usurpation of Western Roman Empire by Charlemagne.
  • 809 Pope Leo III forbids addition of Filioque to Creed and has original Creed in both Greek and Latin inscribed on silver tablets displayed in Rome.
  • 869-870 Robber Council of 869-870 deposes St. Photius the Great.
  • 870 Gradual collapse of the Moravian mission beginning with the death of Prince Rostislav of Moravia, who is captured and deposed by his nephew, Svátopulk, who favours more the Latin liturgy and Bavarian clergy represented by the Frankish Bp. Wiching of Nitra (consecrated in 880 as the first Bp. of Nitria);[note 5]
  • 874 The Great Moravian king Svátopulk subjugated the Vistulan tribe of Lesser Poland, resulting in the Christianization of Little Poland in the Orthodox Cyrillo-Methodian style, (as opposed to the Western Bohemian style), as early as the end of 9th century, before the conversion of Polish King Mieszko I in 966;[note 6]
  • 879-880 Council in Constantinople (endorsed by papacy) reinstates St. Photius and anathematizes any changes to Nicene Creed, including the Filioque.[note 7]
  • 962 Founding of Holy Roman Empire.
  • 966 Mieszko I, the first historical ruler of Poland, accepts Baptism, after marrying the Christian princess Dobrawa in 965, who as a Czech, had strong Orthodox connections.[note 8]
  • 996 After the repose of Pope John XV (985-996), the Frankish King Otto III installs his cousin Bruno of Carinthia as Pope Gregory V (996–999), the first German (non-Roman) Pope, marking the point at which the Roman papacy is converted to a Frankish organization.[3][note 9]
  • 1009 Patr. Sergius II of Constantinople removes name of Pope Sergius IV from the diptychs of Constantinople, because the pope had written a letter to the patriarch including the Filioque.[4][note 10]
 

TheLearner

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#96
  • 1014 First use of Filioque by Pope of Rome, at coronation of Holy Roman Emperor Henry II.
  • 1022 At a Council of Pavia, Pope Benedict VIII officially reaffirmed the celibacy of the clergy (first documented at the Synod of Elvira in Spain, ca. 306 AD), banning marriages and concubines for priests.[5][note 11]
  • 1054 Excommunication of Ecumenical Patriarch Michael Cerularius by Cardinal Humbertus, papal legate, the conventional date point of the Great Schism. Michael returns the favor by excommunicating the Pope (who had died, rendering his legate's authority null).
  • 1059 Beginning of the use of the term transubstantiation in West.
  • 1066 Invasion of England by Duke William of Normandy, carrying papal banner and with papal blessing as a crusade against the "erring English church," engineered by Hildebrand, archdeacon of Rome.
  • 1073-1085 Hildebrand becomes Pope Gregory VII and institutes Gregorian Reforms, the largest increase of papal power in history, including the claim to be able to depose secular rulers.
  • 1075 Pope Gregory VII issues Dictatus papae, an extreme statement of papal power.
  • ca. 1078-80 Council of Burgos reorganizes national Church of Spain as Roman Archbishopric, replaces use of Mozarabic rite with Roman. Sentences Bishops who refuse to recognize decrees to imprisonment.
  • 1095-1272 Crusades promise salvation to warriors from the West.
  • 1098 Abp. Anselm of Canterbury completes Cur Deus Homo, marking a radical divergence of Western theology of the atonement from that of the East; Pope Urban II called the Council of Bari, attended by more than 180 Roman Catholic bishops, including noted theologian Anselm of Canterbury (the founder of rationalistic Western Scholasticism) who defended the filioque clause, with the result that the Roman Catholic-dominated council affirmed the filoque and anathematized those who were opposed to it.[6][7]
 

TheLearner

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#97
  • 1139 Pope Innocent II declared all priestly marriages annulled and declared clerical celibacy the rule for all Roman Catholic priests from that day forward (Second Lateran Council, canons 6 and 7).
  • 1170 Council of Constantinople, attended by many Eastern and Western Bishops, on the reunion of the Eastern and Latin Churches, without effect.[8][9]
  • 1180 Last formal reception of Latins to communion at an Orthodox altar, in Antioch.
  • 1182 Maronites (formerly Monothelite heretics) submit to Rome.
  • 1187 Saladin retakes Jerusalem after destroying crusader army at Battle of Hattin, and returns Christian holy places to the Orthodox Church.
  • 1204 Fourth Crusade sacks Constantinople; Crusaders set up Latin Empire and Patriarchate of Constantinople (lasting until 1261).[note 12]
  • 1205 Latins annex Athens and convert the Parthenon into a Roman Catholic Church - Santa Maria di Athene, later Notre Dame d'Athene.
  • 1211 Venetian crusaders conquer Byzantine Crete.
  • 1224 The Byzantines recover Thessaloniki and surrounding area, liberated by the Greek ruler of Epirus Theodore Ducas Comnenus.
  • 1231 Monk-martyrs and Confessors of the Monastery of Panagia of Kantara, on Cyprus, who suffered under the Latins (1231).[10][11]
  • 1234 Delegates of the two churches met first at Nicaea and then at Nymphaeum (Asia Minor), negotiating the issues related to the union of the Churches, including dogmatic issues, however the dialogue came to a dead end.[12]
  • 1236 Pope Gregory IX issued a crusading bull authorizing a crusade against the Byzantines under Emperor John Vatatzes, on the occasion of the joint Byzantine-Bulgarian siege of Latin Constantinople.[12]
  • 1259 Byzantines defeat Latin Principality of Achaea at the Battle of Pelagonia, marking the beginning of the Byzantine recovery of Greece.
  • ca.1259-80 Martyrdom by Latins of monks of Iveron Monastery.[13][14][15][note 13]
  • 1260-1571 Subjugation of Church of Cyprus to the Roman Catholic Church.
  • 1261 End of Latin occupation of Constantinople and restoration of Orthodox patriarchs; Emperor Michael VIII Palaiologos makes Mystras seat of the new Despotate of Morea, where a Byzantine renaissance occurred; Pope Urban IV endeavoured without success to stir up a crusade to restore the Latin Empire of Constantinople.
  • 1263 Roman Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas writes Contra Errores Graecorum (Against the Errors of the Greeks).
  • 1264 The festival of Corpus Christi ("the Body of Christ") is instituted by Pope Urban IV.
  • 1269 Orthodox patriarch returns to Antioch after a 171-year exile and usurpation by Latin patriarch.
  • 1274 Council of Lyons fails to force Orthodox capitulation to papacy.
  • 1281 Pope Martin IV authorizes a Crusade against the newly re-established Byzantine Empire in Constantinople, excommunicating Emperor Michael VIII Palaiologos and the Greeks and renouncing the union of 1274; French and Venetian expeditions set out toward Constantinople but are forced to turn back in the following year due to the Sicilian Vespers.
  • 1282 Death of 26 martyrs of Zographou monastery on Mount Athos, martyred by the Latins.
  • 1287 Last record of, Amalfion, Benedictine monastery on Mount Athos.
  • 1300-1400 The "Chronicle of Morea" (Το χρονικό του Μορέως) narrates events of the establishment of Western European feudalism in mainland Greece, mainly in the Morea/Peloponnese, by the Franks following the Fourth Crusade, covering a period from 1204 to 1292.
  • 1302 Papal bull Unam Sanctam declares submission to pope necessary for salvation.
  • 1379 Beginning of Western "Great Schism," during which there are eventually 3 rival popes.
  • 1341-1351 Councils in Constantinople vindicate Palamite theology of hesychasm against Barlaamist philosophy.
  • 1409 Council of Pisa is convened and presided over by Cardinal de Malesset, Bishop of Palestrina, and attended by 4 Latin patriarchs, 22 cardinals, 80 bishops and hundreds of lower clergy, whereby both reigning Popes Gregory XII of Rome and Benedict XIII of Avignon were deposed as heretics, being a recognition of the fact that Patriarchs and Popes were subordinate to the Councils of the Church.[16][17]
  • 1414-1418 Council of Constance ends Western "Great Schism;" this council emphasized the Conciliar Movement over the authority of the pope.
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Timeline_of_Orthodox_Church_and_Roman_Catholic_relations
 

TheLearner

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#98

TheLearner

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Chapter 12
First of all, sir, I said, explain this to me: What is the meaning of the rock and the gate? This rock, he answered, and this gate are the Son of God. How, sir? I said; the rock is old, and the gate is new. Listen, he said, and understand, O ignorant man. The Son of God is older than all His creatures, so that He was a fellow-councillor with the Father in His work of creation: for this reason is He old. And why is the gate new, sir? I said. Because, he answered, He became manifest in the last days of the dispensation: for this reason the gate was made new, that they who are to be saved by it might enter into the kingdom of God. You saw, he said, that those stones which came in through the gate were used for the building of the tower, and that those which did not come, were again thrown back to their own place? I saw, sir, I replied. In like manner, he continued, no one shall enter into the kingdom of God unless he receive His holy name. For if you desire to enter into a city, and that city is surrounded by a wall, and has but one gate, can you enter into that city save through the gate which it has? Why, how can it be otherwise, sir? I said. If, then, you cannot enter into the city except through its gate, so, in like manner, a man cannot otherwise enter into the kingdom of God than by the name of His beloved Son. You saw, he added, the multitude who were building the tower? I saw them, sir, I said. Those, he said, are all glorious angels, and by them accordingly is the Lord surrounded. And the gate is the Son of God. This is the one entrance to the Lord. In no other way, then, shall any one enter in to Him except through His Son. You saw, he continued, the six men, and the tall and glorious man in the midst of them, who walked round the tower, and rejected the stones from the building? I saw him, sir, I answered. The glorious man, he said, is the Son of God, and those six glorious angels are those who support Him on the right hand and on the left. None of these glorious angels, he continued, will enter in unto God apart from Him. Whosoever does not receive His name, shall not enter into the kingdom of God.