Please Answer Sabbath Question
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C
Act 15:23,24 "And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment"
Judas and Silas were both 'prophets' as well in this assembly of the Jewish believers in Messiah, thus fulfilling what Paul said in Eph 4:11 - in the order that he gave these offices in. All 5 of these offices were represented at that 'meeting'.
This much I will say to what your reply implies to me ...
Matthew 19:16-19 And, behold, one came and said unto him,
Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mark 10:17,19 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
[Jesus answered] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Luke 18:18, 20 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? [Jesus answered] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
Eph 6:2,3 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise) that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
Mat 15:3-14 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; and honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, this people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
~*~
So Jesus is answering us as well but it doesn't include the 613 but the Moral law/the 10 Commandments and the Royal Law of Loving GOD with all of our hearts, souls, minds, with all of our strength and might and loving ALL as we [do] love ourselves - Acts 15:24 = the Jews were not forbidden to observe the Feasts, the Saturday Sabbath, nor the moral law - but the animal Sacrifices are fulfilled in Christ - as were all of the laws fulfilled were in Him - but that doesn't mean that we do not have our Commandments from Him in the entire New Covenant.
So, we do not stone our unruly children, etc. nor treat people with an issue of blood, etc in the ways commanded in the Torah.
The majority of the 613 were types and figures/shadows and a school master to lead them/us to The Messiah/Christ.
After we are filled with His Spirit, upon true Salvation by grace through faith - we are to rightly divide The Word of Truth 'that is written' in the/His New Covenant ... every jot and tittle of it - Amen!
The whole of His Book is meaningful and Sacred to us - but we'll never understand the Old 'Testament' until we've fully eaten/digested the whole of the New and have been led by His Spirit of Truth [John 16:13] to know and understand every Word written therein.
Unless we reverence His New Covenant with all our heart, soul, mind and strength - we will not fulfill the Commandments that He speaks of from Matthew to the Revelation that we'll be judged by ... one of the Books [plural] opened at the Judgment, besides the Lamb's Book of Life.
forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment"
Judas and Silas were both 'prophets' as well in this assembly of the Jewish believers in Messiah, thus fulfilling what Paul said in Eph 4:11 - in the order that he gave these offices in. All 5 of these offices were represented at that 'meeting'.
This much I will say to what your reply implies to me ...
Matthew 19:16-19 And, behold, one came and said unto him,
Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mark 10:17,19 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
[Jesus answered] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Luke 18:18, 20 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? [Jesus answered] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
Eph 6:2,3 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise) that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
Mat 15:3-14 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; and honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, this people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
~*~
So Jesus is answering us as well but it doesn't include the 613 but the Moral law/the 10 Commandments and the Royal Law of Loving GOD with all of our hearts, souls, minds, with all of our strength and might and loving ALL as we [do] love ourselves - Acts 15:24 = the Jews were not forbidden to observe the Feasts, the Saturday Sabbath, nor the moral law - but the animal Sacrifices are fulfilled in Christ - as were all of the laws fulfilled were in Him - but that doesn't mean that we do not have our Commandments from Him in the entire New Covenant.
So, we do not stone our unruly children, etc. nor treat people with an issue of blood, etc in the ways commanded in the Torah.
The majority of the 613 were types and figures/shadows and a school master to lead them/us to The Messiah/Christ.
After we are filled with His Spirit, upon true Salvation by grace through faith - we are to rightly divide The Word of Truth 'that is written' in the/His New Covenant ... every jot and tittle of it - Amen!
The whole of His Book is meaningful and Sacred to us - but we'll never understand the Old 'Testament' until we've fully eaten/digested the whole of the New and have been led by His Spirit of Truth [John 16:13] to know and understand every Word written therein.
Unless we reverence His New Covenant with all our heart, soul, mind and strength - we will not fulfill the Commandments that He speaks of from Matthew to the Revelation that we'll be judged by ... one of the Books [plural] opened at the Judgment, besides the Lamb's Book of Life.
We have to stop right there.
You are quoting words that are not in the oldest texts... it up to you to study which text is right.
New International Version
We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
New Living Translation
"We understand that some men from here have troubled you and upset you with their teaching, but we did not send them!
English Standard Version
Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions,
New American Standard Bible
"Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,
King James Bible
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Because we have heard that some without our authorization went out from us and troubled you with their words and unsettled your hearts,
International Standard Version
We have heard that some men, coming from us without instructions from us, have said things to trouble you and have unsettled you.
NET Bible
Since we have heard that some have gone out from among us with no orders from us and have confused you, upsetting your minds by what they said,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“We hear that men among us went out and have alarmed you with words and have subverted your souls, as they were saying, 'Be circumcised and keep The Law', which we have not commanded them.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
We have heard that some individuals who came from us have confused you with statements that disturb you. We did not authorize these men [to speak].
Jubilee Bible 2000
forasmuch as we have heard that certain ones who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised and keep the law, to whom we gave no such commandment,
King James 2000 Bible
Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
American King James Version
For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
American Standard Version
Forasmuch as we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;
Douay-Rheims Bible
Forasmuch as we have heard, that some going out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment:
Darby Bible Translation
Inasmuch as we have heard that some who went out from amongst us have troubled you by words, upsetting your souls, [saying that ye must be circumcised and keep the law]; to whom we gave no commandment;
English Revised Version
Forasmuch as we have heard that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;
Webster's Bible Translation
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain who went out from us, have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law; to whom we gave no such commandment:
Weymouth New Testament
As we have been informed that certain persons who have gone out from among us have disturbed you by their teaching and have unsettled your minds, without having received any such instructions from us;
World English Bible
Because we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law,' to whom we gave no commandment;
Young's Literal Translation
seeing we have heard that certain having gone forth from us did trouble you with words, subverting your souls, saying to be circumcised and to keep the law, to whom we did give no charge
Seems one did say to keep the Law:
Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."
Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."
"Laws" is word #1785 entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."
"Laws" is word #1785 entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
Yahchanan (John) 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."
Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.
Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
You are quoting words that are not in the oldest texts... it up to you to study which text is right.
New International Version
We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
New Living Translation
"We understand that some men from here have troubled you and upset you with their teaching, but we did not send them!
English Standard Version
Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions,
New American Standard Bible
"Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,
King James Bible
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Because we have heard that some without our authorization went out from us and troubled you with their words and unsettled your hearts,
International Standard Version
We have heard that some men, coming from us without instructions from us, have said things to trouble you and have unsettled you.
NET Bible
Since we have heard that some have gone out from among us with no orders from us and have confused you, upsetting your minds by what they said,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“We hear that men among us went out and have alarmed you with words and have subverted your souls, as they were saying, 'Be circumcised and keep The Law', which we have not commanded them.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
We have heard that some individuals who came from us have confused you with statements that disturb you. We did not authorize these men [to speak].
Jubilee Bible 2000
forasmuch as we have heard that certain ones who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised and keep the law, to whom we gave no such commandment,
King James 2000 Bible
Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
American King James Version
For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
American Standard Version
Forasmuch as we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;
Douay-Rheims Bible
Forasmuch as we have heard, that some going out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment:
Darby Bible Translation
Inasmuch as we have heard that some who went out from amongst us have troubled you by words, upsetting your souls, [saying that ye must be circumcised and keep the law]; to whom we gave no commandment;
English Revised Version
Forasmuch as we have heard that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;
Webster's Bible Translation
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain who went out from us, have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law; to whom we gave no such commandment:
Weymouth New Testament
As we have been informed that certain persons who have gone out from among us have disturbed you by their teaching and have unsettled your minds, without having received any such instructions from us;
World English Bible
Because we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law,' to whom we gave no commandment;
Young's Literal Translation
seeing we have heard that certain having gone forth from us did trouble you with words, subverting your souls, saying to be circumcised and to keep the law, to whom we did give no charge
Seems one did say to keep the Law:
Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."
Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."
"Laws" is word #1785 entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."
"Laws" is word #1785 entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
Yahchanan (John) 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."
Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.
Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
C
I've posted every verse found in the N.T. about keeping the Commandments from Jesus on other threads - so you are misrepresenting what I posted above.
You say that I should look again at the verses that I gave from Acts --- yet give me different English versions rather than do the "word studies" that you've done in several of your posts thus far.
This version is from the Textus Receptus - and numbered for you as well -
Act 15:24 Forasmuch asG1894 we have heard,G191 thatG3754 certainG5100 which went outG1831 fromG1537 usG2257 have troubledG5015 youG5209 with words,G3056 subvertingG384 yourG5216 souls,G5590 saying,G3004 Ye must be circumcised,G4059 andG2532 keepG5083 theG3588 law:G3551 to whomG3739 we gave no such commandment:G1291 G3756
Act 15:24 επειδηG1894 CONJ ηκουσαμενG191 V-AAI-1P οτιG3754 CONJ τινεςG5100 X-NPM εξG1537 PREP ημωνG1473 P-1GP εξελθοντεςG1831 V-2AAP-NPM εταραξανG5015 V-AAI-3P υμαςG4771 P-2AP λογοιςG3056 N-DPM ανασκευαζοντεςG384 V-PAP-NPM ταςG3588 T-APF ψυχαςG5590 N-APF υμωνG4771 P-2GP λεγοντεςG3004 V-PAP-NPM περιτεμνεσθαιG4059 V-PPN καιG2532 CONJ τηρεινG5083 V-PAN τονG3588 T-ASM νομονG3551 N-ASM οιςG3739 R-DPM ουG3756 PRT-N διεστειλαμεθαG1291 V-AMI-1P
You say that I should look again at the verses that I gave from Acts --- yet give me different English versions rather than do the "word studies" that you've done in several of your posts thus far.
This version is from the Textus Receptus - and numbered for you as well -
Act 15:24 Forasmuch asG1894 we have heard,G191 thatG3754 certainG5100 which went outG1831 fromG1537 usG2257 have troubledG5015 youG5209 with words,G3056 subvertingG384 yourG5216 souls,G5590 saying,G3004 Ye must be circumcised,G4059 andG2532 keepG5083 theG3588 law:G3551 to whomG3739 we gave no such commandment:G1291 G3756
Act 15:24 επειδηG1894 CONJ ηκουσαμενG191 V-AAI-1P οτιG3754 CONJ τινεςG5100 X-NPM εξG1537 PREP ημωνG1473 P-1GP εξελθοντεςG1831 V-2AAP-NPM εταραξανG5015 V-AAI-3P υμαςG4771 P-2AP λογοιςG3056 N-DPM ανασκευαζοντεςG384 V-PAP-NPM ταςG3588 T-APF ψυχαςG5590 N-APF υμωνG4771 P-2GP λεγοντεςG3004 V-PAP-NPM περιτεμνεσθαιG4059 V-PPN καιG2532 CONJ τηρεινG5083 V-PAN τονG3588 T-ASM νομονG3551 N-ASM οιςG3739 R-DPM ουG3756 PRT-N διεστειλαμεθαG1291 V-AMI-1P
C
"keep the law" ... no debate about how "keep" and "the" are translated from the Greek -- but you may debate the translation of the word "law".
Just to clear that up - here is how "νόμος" is used elsewhere in the book of the New Covenant -
G3551
νόμος
nomos
Total KJV Occurrences: 197
law, 195
Mat_5:17-18 (2), Mat_11:12-13 (2), Mat_12:5, Mat_22:36, Mat_22:40, Mat_23:23, Luk_2:22-24 (3), Luk_2:27, Luk_2:39, Luk_10:26, Luk_16:16-17 (2), Luk_24:44, Joh_1:17, Joh_1:45, Joh_7:19 (2), Joh_7:23, Joh_7:49, Joh_7:51, Joh_8:5, Joh_8:17, Joh_12:34 (2), Joh_15:25, Joh_18:31, Joh_19:7 (2), Act_6:13, Act_7:53, Act_13:15, Act_13:39, Act_15:5, Act_15:24, Act_18:13, Act_18:15, Act_21:20, Act_21:24, Act_21:28, Act_22:3, Act_22:12, Act_23:3, Act_23:29, Act_24:6, Act_24:14, Act_25:8, Act_28:23, Rom 2 (19), Rom_3:21 (6), Rom_3:27-28 (3), Rom_3:31 (2), Rom_4:13-16 (5), Rom_5:13 (2), Rom_5:20, Rom_6:14-15 (2)Rom_8:4 (4), Rom_8:7, Rom_9:31-32 (3), Rom_10:4-5 (2), Rom_13:8, Rom_13:10, 1Co_7:39, 1Co_9:8-9 (2), 1Co_14:20-21 (4), 1Co_14:34, 1Co_15:56, Gal_2:16 (3), Gal_2:19 (2), Gal_2:21, Gal 3 (15), Gal_4:5 (2), Gal_4:21 (2), Gal_5:3-4 (2), Gal_5:14, Gal_5:18, Gal_5:23, Gal_6:2, Gal_6:13, Eph_2:15, Phi_3:5-6 (2), Phi_3:9, 1Ti_1:8-9 (2), Heb_7:5, Heb_7:12, Heb_7:16, Heb_7:19, Heb_7:28 (2), Heb_8:4, Heb_9:19, Heb_9:22, Heb_10:1, Heb_10:8, Heb_10:28, Jam_1:25, Jam_2:8-12 (5), Jam_4:11
laws, 2
Heb_8:10, Heb_10:16
Just to clear that up - here is how "νόμος" is used elsewhere in the book of the New Covenant -
G3551
νόμος
nomos
Total KJV Occurrences: 197
law, 195
Mat_5:17-18 (2), Mat_11:12-13 (2), Mat_12:5, Mat_22:36, Mat_22:40, Mat_23:23, Luk_2:22-24 (3), Luk_2:27, Luk_2:39, Luk_10:26, Luk_16:16-17 (2), Luk_24:44, Joh_1:17, Joh_1:45, Joh_7:19 (2), Joh_7:23, Joh_7:49, Joh_7:51, Joh_8:5, Joh_8:17, Joh_12:34 (2), Joh_15:25, Joh_18:31, Joh_19:7 (2), Act_6:13, Act_7:53, Act_13:15, Act_13:39, Act_15:5, Act_15:24, Act_18:13, Act_18:15, Act_21:20, Act_21:24, Act_21:28, Act_22:3, Act_22:12, Act_23:3, Act_23:29, Act_24:6, Act_24:14, Act_25:8, Act_28:23, Rom 2 (19), Rom_3:21 (6), Rom_3:27-28 (3), Rom_3:31 (2), Rom_4:13-16 (5), Rom_5:13 (2), Rom_5:20, Rom_6:14-15 (2)Rom_8:4 (4), Rom_8:7, Rom_9:31-32 (3), Rom_10:4-5 (2), Rom_13:8, Rom_13:10, 1Co_7:39, 1Co_9:8-9 (2), 1Co_14:20-21 (4), 1Co_14:34, 1Co_15:56, Gal_2:16 (3), Gal_2:19 (2), Gal_2:21, Gal 3 (15), Gal_4:5 (2), Gal_4:21 (2), Gal_5:3-4 (2), Gal_5:14, Gal_5:18, Gal_5:23, Gal_6:2, Gal_6:13, Eph_2:15, Phi_3:5-6 (2), Phi_3:9, 1Ti_1:8-9 (2), Heb_7:5, Heb_7:12, Heb_7:16, Heb_7:19, Heb_7:28 (2), Heb_8:4, Heb_9:19, Heb_9:22, Heb_10:1, Heb_10:8, Heb_10:28, Jam_1:25, Jam_2:8-12 (5), Jam_4:11
laws, 2
Heb_8:10, Heb_10:16
Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
C
I 'had' the Greek New Testament that graded each verse by how many manuscripts, fragments, etc were in our possession and graded each verse with "A" to "D" but I don't have that book here.
If you can find some proof on what you've said - regarding that verse from the Greek and not English translations, nor Westcott and Hort translations - I'd appreciate that.
If you can find some proof on what you've said - regarding that verse from the Greek and not English translations, nor Westcott and Hort translations - I'd appreciate that.
C
I gave mine on page 6 I believe, but our discussion now concerns the Now, before anti-Christ is revealed but not when Messiah's feet hit the Mount of Olives - which is when we read of laws being re-instated for those that are still in the flesh and not a glorified body - ruling and reigning with Him and 'like' Him at that point.
Sounds like an interesting book. If you see the translations I posted, the first thing I think is why do some include it and some dont. I was introduced to it by accident, just happened to read a foot note and that started it.
I do not remember where my notes are from this topic, so I did a net search and here are a few leads:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_textual_variants_in_the_New_Testament#Acts
Most Important Textual Variants in the New Testament
These are just to show what I say exists, but you have to look and see what read you think is of Yahweh, so many things have to be considered I cant even begin to break it down here.
I do not remember where my notes are from this topic, so I did a net search and here are a few leads:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_textual_variants_in_the_New_Testament#Acts
Most Important Textual Variants in the New Testament
These are just to show what I say exists, but you have to look and see what read you think is of Yahweh, so many things have to be considered I cant even begin to break it down here.
C
In verse twenty-five where the expression “a time, and times and half a time” appears, The New American Bible (Roman Catholic) reads: “They [the holy ones] shall be handed over to him for a year, two years, and a half-year.” Moffatt’s translation reads: “And for three years and half a year the saints shall be handed over to him.” Similarly, The Complete Bible—An American Translation reads: “And they shall be handed over to him for a year, two years, and half a year.”
As highlighted in the op I was talking about the "change" I only showed the original language to show these "times" had different meanings. But I ask about the "to change times and laws" section.
Daniel 7:25, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time"
Can anyone who thinks Sabbath has been changed in any way tell me what, "think to change times and laws" means? Im open to hear explanations.
Daniel 7:25, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time"
Can anyone who thinks Sabbath has been changed in any way tell me what, "think to change times and laws" means? Im open to hear explanations.
S
The Ten Commandments are a summary of the Old Covenant
Exodus 34:28 “So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the word of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Exodus 31:18 “And he gave to Moses when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Deut 4:13 “And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone”.
Deut 9:9 “When I went up the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant that the Lord made with you.”
Deut 9:11 “And at the end of forty days and forty nights the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant.”
The Old Covenant was an agreement between God and Israel, not God and Christians
Ex 31:12-17 And the Lord said to Moses, “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death. Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever. It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.”
The Old Covenant is no longer in effect for ANYONE
Heb 8:13-9:4 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness. For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lampstand and the table, and the bread of the Presence. It is called the Holy Place. Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.
Gal 3:17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterwards, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.
Gal 3:24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith
Gal 3:25 But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a guardian
2 Cor 3:4-18 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even much more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory. Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
The Sabbath, as part of the Old Covenant, is not in affect for ANYONE
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years! I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
Rom 14:5-6 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Col 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ
Jesus is our Sabbath or spiritual rest, and we enter into that spiritual rest by placing our faith in Him
Matt 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and lean from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Heb 4:1-8 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter my rest. “ although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” And again in this passage he said, “They shall not enter my rest.”. Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, “Today”, saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted. “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had not given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. So then there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from is works as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Christians are under the New Covenant, which has much higher demands and different commandments
Luke 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”
Heb 9:15 Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Jn 15:12 This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Jn 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
I am a former Sabbathkeeper due to my association as a new believer with Worldwide Church of God (now called Grace Communion International). Worldwide Church of God came to realize in 1995 that Christians are under the New Covenant, and not the Old Covenant, and the Sabbath does not apply to Christians under the New Covenant. It was a sign of the Old Covenant (like baptism and the Lord’s Supper are signs of the New Covenant), and is not a moral absolute like Sabbathkeepers claim. Sabbathkeeping doctrine invariably takes the focus off the true gospel, which is about Jesus Christ and salvation by grace through faith in Him (Eph 2:8-9). As a Sabbathkeeper, I rarely heard messages about God’s grace and love; the message of such organizations invariably focuses on the Sabbath. Jesus Christ was also placed on the backburner and was not the focus of their teaching. If you would like good sources of information in regards to the Sabbath check out Grace Communion International’s website at https://www.gci.org/law I now attend an Evangelical Free church that focuses on Jesus Christ and salvation through Him, which is the true gospel.
Exodus 34:28 “So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the word of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Exodus 31:18 “And he gave to Moses when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Deut 4:13 “And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone”.
Deut 9:9 “When I went up the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant that the Lord made with you.”
Deut 9:11 “And at the end of forty days and forty nights the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant.”
The Old Covenant was an agreement between God and Israel, not God and Christians
Ex 31:12-17 And the Lord said to Moses, “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death. Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever. It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.”
The Old Covenant is no longer in effect for ANYONE
Heb 8:13-9:4 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness. For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lampstand and the table, and the bread of the Presence. It is called the Holy Place. Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.
Gal 3:17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterwards, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.
Gal 3:24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith
Gal 3:25 But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a guardian
2 Cor 3:4-18 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even much more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory. Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
The Sabbath, as part of the Old Covenant, is not in affect for ANYONE
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years! I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
Rom 14:5-6 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Col 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ
Jesus is our Sabbath or spiritual rest, and we enter into that spiritual rest by placing our faith in Him
Matt 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and lean from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Heb 4:1-8 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter my rest. “ although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” And again in this passage he said, “They shall not enter my rest.”. Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, “Today”, saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted. “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had not given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. So then there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from is works as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Christians are under the New Covenant, which has much higher demands and different commandments
Luke 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”
Heb 9:15 Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Jn 15:12 This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Jn 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
I am a former Sabbathkeeper due to my association as a new believer with Worldwide Church of God (now called Grace Communion International). Worldwide Church of God came to realize in 1995 that Christians are under the New Covenant, and not the Old Covenant, and the Sabbath does not apply to Christians under the New Covenant. It was a sign of the Old Covenant (like baptism and the Lord’s Supper are signs of the New Covenant), and is not a moral absolute like Sabbathkeepers claim. Sabbathkeeping doctrine invariably takes the focus off the true gospel, which is about Jesus Christ and salvation by grace through faith in Him (Eph 2:8-9). As a Sabbathkeeper, I rarely heard messages about God’s grace and love; the message of such organizations invariably focuses on the Sabbath. Jesus Christ was also placed on the backburner and was not the focus of their teaching. If you would like good sources of information in regards to the Sabbath check out Grace Communion International’s website at https://www.gci.org/law I now attend an Evangelical Free church that focuses on Jesus Christ and salvation through Him, which is the true gospel.