Poll of polls on the longest running debate:

[The_Watchers_2017]

it's very simple- " I will pray the Father and He will give you another comforter ..."

Jesus ( 1) prayed to the Father ( 2) and He will send another comforter ( the Holy Sprit) ( 3)

so, there is the Trinity.

so you get the invisible Version of the physical Version?

Jesus here is saying He is a Comforter and now the invisible Version is coming.

use logic will you?

also, if the Father is inside Jesus doing the talking, Who asked Who for what?

 

[gb9]

Jesus did not pray to Himself and then say he would send Himself.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Changing the order of your post a little, Franc. Putting the Scripture first, and your commentary later.

This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness [b]in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.


9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of [c]God which He has testified of His Son. 10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has [d]life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Yes, this is the Word of God, and is 100% Correct. I've underlined the Portion that clearly teaches the Holy Trinity. St. John the Apostle says the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are One. This is what the Doctrine of the Trinity also states.

the three witnesses are the Father the Word (not the son) and the Holy Spirit

This is not correct. Who told you the Word is not the Son? Have you not read the other writings of St. John, such as the Gospel, and Revelation? In John 1, it clearly says the Word is the Son of God, Jesus Christ, Who created all things.

"14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." (Jn 1:14-17)

Hence the Living Word of God is none other than the Son of God, Jesus Christ. This is further confirmed in another Book written by John, Revelation or the Apocalypse.

"11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." (Rev 19:11-16).

So Jesus Christ, the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, is the Word of God. This is a basic Biblical Doctrine all of us should know.

..no where in that chapter are three are called persons in that verse says there are three that bear witness no persons named what the bible actually says is that the witnesses in heaven and on earth are God's testimony about the son....

If I say you, your wife and your son are one family, is it not clear, because you are a person, I am speaking of three persons? Similarly, since Jesus Christ is undoubtedly a Person, it follows the Father, the Son or Word, and the Holy Spirit, are Three Persons, and One God.

So if the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are persons in the Godhead then the trinity is false

False. The Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are Three Persons in the One Godhead means the Trinity is true.

because look its says God is testifying about the Son and according to the Trinitarians the persons of the trinity are the Father the son and the holy spirit but this verse is the Word and the three in this verse are testifying about the son...if the three are God...then the son is not part of that trinity because the three who are one are testifying about hi ...lets read 1st John 5

Incorrect, God the Father testified about the Son, for e.g. when He spoke through the Cloud. Then, God the Holy Spirit descended upon God the Son. Please read the Holy Scriptures, especially the NT, once more and thoroughly and pray much to the Holy Spirit every day for understanding. Faith in the Trinity is necessary for salvation. Jews and Muslims, who reject Christ, His Divinity, and His Cross, attack and deny the Trinity. Christians should not. We are Baptized in the One Name of the Triune God, and with that Faith in which we are Baptized, and that Baptism, we must appear before the Throne of God one day for Judgment.

In Christ,
Xavier.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Jesus did not pray to Himself and then say he would send Himself.

i did not say Jesus prayed. i said what Jesus said that the Father was inside Him doing the talking.

you know, Jesus said He did and said what the Father did and said. so Jesus is doing what the Father says.

 

[Franc254]

the bible says that

it's very simple- " I will pray the Father and He will give you another comforter ..."

Jesus ( 1) prayed to the Father ( 2) and He will send another comforter ( the Holy Sprit) ( 3)

so, there is the Trinity.

but that verse doesnt support the trinity....look at what Paul is saying about Jesus and how he is not limited to the son alone.....


2nd corinthians 3:14-17

But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom....so the Lord isthe spirit and before you say that the Spirit of the Lord is not the Holy spirit the bible says that Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. ...where is the trinity in all these verses

 

[Franc254]

Changing the order of your post a little, Franc. Putting the Scripture first, and your commentary later.



Yes, this is the Word of God, and is 100% Correct. I've underlined the Portion that clearly teaches the Holy Trinity. St. John the Apostle says the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are One. This is what the Doctrine of the Trinity also states.



This is not correct. Who told you the Word is not the Son? Have you not read the other writings of St. John, such as the Gospel, and Revelation? In John 1, it clearly says the Word is the Son of God, Jesus Christ, Who created all things.

"14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." (Jn 1:14-17)

Hence the Living Word of God is none other than the Son of God, Jesus Christ. This is further confirmed in another Book written by John, Revelation or the Apocalypse.

"11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." (Rev 19:11-16).

So Jesus Christ, the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, is the Word of God. This is a basic Biblical Doctrine all of us should know.



If I say you, your wife and your son are one family, is it not clear, because you are a person, I am speaking of three persons? Similarly, since Jesus Christ is undoubtedly a Person, it follows the Father, the Son or Word, and the Holy Spirit, are Three Persons, and One God.



False. The Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are Three Persons in the One Godhead means the Trinity is true.



Incorrect, God the Father testified about the Son, for e.g. when He spoke through the Cloud. Then, God the Holy Spirit descended upon God the Son. Please read the Holy Scriptures, especially the NT, once more and thoroughly and pray much to the Holy Spirit every day for understanding. Faith in the Trinity is necessary for salvation. Jews and Muslims, who reject Christ, His Divinity, and His Cross, attack and deny the Trinity. Christians should not. We are Baptized in the One Name of the Triune God, and with that Faith in which we are Baptized, and that Baptism, we must appear before the Throne of God one day for Judgment.

In Christ,
Xavier.

so if the Father testifies about his son....was the word in heaven...there are three that testify in heaven , father, word and HS....so according to you, the father and the word who are in heaven are testifying about the son.....so how many people are actually in the trinity , because look there is the father testifying, and then there is also the Word who is also testifying about the son and both of these persons testify in heaven about the SON and then the HS comes, so how many persons are there actually in heaven when Jesus is on earth....so you cant use that theory to say that that is proof of the trinity...

 

[Franc254]

Changing the order of your post a little, Franc. Putting the Scripture first, and your commentary later.



Yes, this is the Word of God, and is 100% Correct. I've underlined the Portion that clearly teaches the Holy Trinity. St. John the Apostle says the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are One. This is what the Doctrine of the Trinity also states.



This is not correct. Who told you the Word is not the Son? Have you not read the other writings of St. John, such as the Gospel, and Revelation? In John 1, it clearly says the Word is the Son of God, Jesus Christ, Who created all things.

"14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." (Jn 1:14-17)

Hence the Living Word of God is none other than the Son of God, Jesus Christ. This is further confirmed in another Book written by John, Revelation or the Apocalypse.

"11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." (Rev 19:11-16).

So Jesus Christ, the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, is the Word of God. This is a basic Biblical Doctrine all of us should know.



If I say you, your wife and your son are one family, is it not clear, because you are a person, I am speaking of three persons? Similarly, since Jesus Christ is undoubtedly a Person, it follows the Father, the Son or Word, and the Holy Spirit, are Three Persons, and One God.



False. The Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are Three Persons in the One Godhead means the Trinity is true.



Incorrect, God the Father testified about the Son, for e.g. when He spoke through the Cloud. Then, God the Holy Spirit descended upon God the Son. Please read the Holy Scriptures, especially the NT, once more and thoroughly and pray much to the Holy Spirit every day for understanding. Faith in the Trinity is necessary for salvation. Jews and Muslims, who reject Christ, His Divinity, and His Cross, attack and deny the Trinity. Christians should not. We are Baptized in the One Name of the Triune God, and with that Faith in which we are Baptized, and that Baptism, we must appear before the Throne of God one day for Judgment.

In Christ,
Xavier.

Its true we will appear before the throne of God one day....Revelation 2:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. .....so the bible says that the dead were standing before God however if you look at the book of acts 17:30-31 it reads Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained... we should be asking ourselves why is Revelation saying God will judge the world...but Acts says God has ordained a man to judge the world...1st Timothy 2:5

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, ...why is Paul refferering the mediator as the man Jesus Christ....because it is through his authority as the son can we be made right by him....what we saw was not the glory of the father, who we saw was the glory of that begotten by the father, the son ...that is the man Jesus Christ...thats the one who will judge but after the son has completed his work he too will be humbled (that nature of man will be humbled)

 

[Franc254]

Changing the order of your post a little, Franc. Putting the Scripture first, and your commentary later.



Yes, this is the Word of God, and is 100% Correct. I've underlined the Portion that clearly teaches the Holy Trinity. St. John the Apostle says the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are One. This is what the Doctrine of the Trinity also states.



This is not correct. Who told you the Word is not the Son? Have you not read the other writings of St. John, such as the Gospel, and Revelation? In John 1, it clearly says the Word is the Son of God, Jesus Christ, Who created all things.

"14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." (Jn 1:14-17)

Hence the Living Word of God is none other than the Son of God, Jesus Christ. This is further confirmed in another Book written by John, Revelation or the Apocalypse.

"11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." (Rev 19:11-16).

So Jesus Christ, the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, is the Word of God. This is a basic Biblical Doctrine all of us should know.



If I say you, your wife and your son are one family, is it not clear, because you are a person, I am speaking of three persons? Similarly, since Jesus Christ is undoubtedly a Person, it follows the Father, the Son or Word, and the Holy Spirit, are Three Persons, and One God.



False. The Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are Three Persons in the One Godhead means the Trinity is true.



Incorrect, God the Father testified about the Son, for e.g. when He spoke through the Cloud. Then, God the Holy Spirit descended upon God the Son. Please read the Holy Scriptures, especially the NT, once more and thoroughly and pray much to the Holy Spirit every day for understanding. Faith in the Trinity is necessary for salvation. Jews and Muslims, who reject Christ, His Divinity, and His Cross, attack and deny the Trinity. Christians should not. We are Baptized in the One Name of the Triune God, and with that Faith in which we are Baptized, and that Baptism, we must appear before the Throne of God one day for Judgment.

In Christ,
Xavier.

its good youve quoted Revelation 19

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."


now look at this Marvelous being from Heaven, he is called the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords...now lets look who else is called that name....The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.” So the lamb is the name of the King of Kings and the Lord Of Lords and the lamb is Jesus....now this is what paul is saying about the lamb in the book of

1st Timothy 6:13-16


I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only [e]Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen. ....so it seems at the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords (the lamb who is Jesus) is the only one who cannot die we all know he died as the son but not as the father, no man has seen or can see (but they say Jesus again as the son but as the Father no)....so in his own time Jesus will show us his true form not as the son but as the father....Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God but even hitler will see God and yet he had an impure heart....many people who had impure hearts will see God on that day but they will see him while he still has the authority of the son not his true form as the father but the pure in heart will see the father....Revelations1:7

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. ...they pierced the son not the Father...thats who people will see but the pure in heart will see his true from but this time as the father.....Revelations 22:3-4 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. ....not two thrones, the throne of God who is also the lamb and they will serve him...the lamb and they shall see his face....matthew 5:8 blessed are the pure in heart they shall see God...so Jesus takes the role of the Father because thats his true form but when he came, he lowered himslef to be the son ...the son will be humbled but the lamb is still on the throne even after the son is humbled

Im not disputing that Jesus is God....what im saying is that we cant just restrict him to the son