Poll on faith without works

[Pilgrimshope]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

We need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Agreed , faith is made complete when we take the step and not just talk about it and certainly not deny that the work is before us to be done in his name .

the beginning of faith is a seed of true hope but it doesn’t have any evidence of it even being planted until it starts to break through the soil and the leaves emerge . Faith doesn’t remain a seed , it grows and reaches forth taking in the Son and the water from heaven

the plant that emerges is not toiling , because all of the evidence is springing forth from the roots of faith the fruit only comes because the seed is accepted , we can’t make the fruit unless we have roots first then we don’t know how or why , but the soil receiving the seed becomes a plant later and bears fruit that was always hidden in hope before the seed began to shew life forth from the soil

the harvester doesn’t harvest seeds but what grows from the seed becomes the harvest of ages

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I think you are not willing to accept the fact that faith leads us to a place where we don’t have an issue walking in the works of Christ not the law of Moses , but the works Christ teaches us. Those works are rooted in love

I think that faith isn’t going to be set against doing the things God said we are made to do and if we can get to a point where we let those things. Evoke part of our faith then we don’t have to look at it like “ do we really have to do anything ?”

but faith is like a seed and if we allow time and persevere in belief of what he’s said in the gospel those works become part of who we are being made into

See post #106

 

[seed_time_harvest]

why did you offer the option “ other “ ?

it seems like you want to control the question and answer but why not just post a statement saying what you already think of that’s the case ?

I’m sorry for intruding on your thread I took it as asking others what they thought and that was why you added “ other “ so someone might not have to answer a strictly controlled yes or no question that doesn’t really answer anything in my view you should look at it this way

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you accept that it’s a good thing to allow for believers doing the works we’re taught about “ helping others in need when we are able , forgiving others who harm or sin against us , being merciful and actually treating others as they are our dear family in need ….

then you may not look at it like “ those works aren’t necassary “ I can tell you that Gods son didn’t suffer so we can reject the thkngs he taught . If you let the idea on that doing good works are a good thing in Gods sight you will realize there is no works v no works issue just let the lord make you into who he wills you to be someone who has zeal
For doing good don’t make it about what’s required and necassary or not required or necassary it’s just part of the plan to make us into better people who care for others in truth

Jesus has salvstion worked out already but we can’t reject what he’s said for us to learn and do and walk in faith thats worth considering

You have a right to answer what you feel.I made the other option available so If someone to expound on their Interpretation they could have the option.
You said that It seems like I want to control the question and answer and I feel that by your response that you are doing the same thing that you say that I am doing.
I DID vote that faith Without works Is alive to GOD and I believe faith Without works Is dead to men.Next time I do a poll I will make the poll where the nicknames of members will show as to what option they chose.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

We need to be careful about how we view faith and works. Some people make a blanket distinction which is not warranted. It is possible to have faith in some areas and not in others. One person might have total confidence in God's healing power and never take medicine or go to a doctor. I met a man whose son was terminally ill with cancer. The son was lead singer for a Christian band. He was so sick that an industry magazine reported him dead. Until got up on stage and performed, that is.

I don't have that kind of faith. The young man never wavered. He had a gift of faith from God. Some people claim to believe God's word. When it comes to the issue of giving, they are quick to excuse themselves. Their supposed faith is demonstrably false in that area.

Faith covers all the areas of life as a Christian. No one is perfect in faith. The best approach is to be honest with others, yourself and with God. If you have a problem trusting God in an area, tell Him. He knows anyway. He can set you free by revelation - the truth sets us free. Don't be condemned. "I believe, help my unbelief" is something that God will hear. God is not some kind of tyrant withholding His blessings until we are perfect. He is merciful and gracious, loving and kind.

I know that good works are the other side of the coin,the result of genuine faith,nevertheless does GOD alone require men to do good works before he accounts them righteous?

Without the person doing Any good works do you believe that person can be accounted as righteous to GOD IOW do you believe faith Without works Is alive to "GOD"?
Romans 4:1-2
King James Version


1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.

 

[Stormela]

You believe that faith Is dead to GOD without works?

Good morning..yes

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No not at all. When the thief on the cross came into the equation, I had to pause for a minute and discussed it with my husband because I really do believe that through faith, we will do works, we can't help it if we are true believers, so the thief threw me off. He reminded me of the witnessing of the thief, there it is, he couldn't help it.

Amen his faith produced works. Maybe not physical works. But works all the same

 

[Stormela]

Amen his faith produced works. Maybe not physical works. But works all the same

Good morning and Amen

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good morning..yes

Amen which is dead ir lifeless faith which is no faith at all
we are saved by faith not mere belief

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good morning and Amen

Good Morning. Thanks for the coffee😊

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Good morning..yes

WOW,you believe faith Is dead to GOD?Astonishing.I don't think you really believe that,I don't think people are understanding the question.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

WOW,you believe faith Is dead to GOD?Astonishing.

How can you say this? I did
Not see her claim this

 

[Stormela]

You believe that faith Is dead to GOD without works?

Good morning seed time and yes I do

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You have a right to answer what you feel.I made the other option available so If someone to expound on their Interpretation they could have the option.
You said that It seems like I want to control the question and answer and I feel that by your response that you are doing the same thing that you say that I am doing.
I DID vote that faith Without works Is alive to GOD and I believe faith Without works Is dead to men.Next time I do a poll I will make the poll where the nicknames of members will show as to what option they chose.

ah yea it’s probably my fault I sort of just was wanting to add my opinion and belief to your thread without the controversy .

I said that you seemed to want to control the question and answer because of what you were posting “ no one understands just answer does God recognize faith without works ?

it was just my observation of why you kept steering it back to a framed and controlled question , just a simple observation.

we’re all free to believe what we’re going to believe I agree there for sure but anyways I don’t want to disrupt your thread so you can get back to the answers your seeking , I would have just said yes or no but I don’t think it’s a yes and no question is why I chose other no offense intended or taken God bless

 

[Pilgrimshope]

WOW,you believe faith Is dead to GOD?Astonishing.

that wasn’t what you asked , you didn’t ask is faith dead to God . you posed the question for people from this single verse

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also “

but this is really valuable suggestion why not learn what’s being taught by the lords brother James ? Look at more than just the wiote of the one scripture what’s James teaching ?

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:21-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a lesson there about faith we can learn and mature in rather than just refusing that it’s relevant at all the epistles are letters that are teaching lessons and ideas and understandings

just as you wouldn’t read a letter or novel one sentance , seperate from those all around it that carry the understanding of what’s being said so is scripture it’s meant to be accepted but in the sections me by each concept not just one verse that means something and then a seperate verse that means something else contrary

James is teaching something valuable out faith and it’s purpose isnt
to condemn us for what we haven’t done it’s meant to make us grow into maturity and start walking out our faith

 

[HisKid]

Do you believe man has to do works before GOD will recognize his faith?

The question really makes no sense. Faith is a gift FROM God.

.

 

[John146]

it’s even less wise to try to exalt Paul the servant of Jesus and ignore Jesus the lords words and his other apostles who were brothers and partners with Paul spreading the same gospel to the same lost world beginning at jerusalem and seperate jew from gentile as if they are saved two different ways

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Paul was yet named Saul of tarsus when the apostles were commanded to do this , he was still a Pharisee not yet converted to the church setting about to destroy the gospel .

and it seems they were all writing to the same church

“Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

aeems Paul was also writing to Gentiles and Jews whoever joined the church same as Peter his brother in apostleship

I'm not in disagreement, but we must recognize Paul's unique ministry to the body of Christ as a chose vessel to reveal aspects about the gospel that no one else knew. Even Peter in the above verses testifies that Paul wrote things that were hard for him to understand.

 

[JTB]

I was wondering what the majority of the community thought about this question.

Works do not determine our salvation; but they sure are a good witness of whether our salvation is genuine.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm not in disagreement, but we must recognize Paul's unique ministry to the body of Christ as a chose vessel to reveal aspects about the gospel that no one else knew. Even Peter in the above verses testifies that Paul wrote things that were hard for him to understand.

no Peter wasn’t unstable he was warp king of people who tried to eliminate the gospel of Jesus Christ , and exalt Paul to some place he never belonged

Jesus is the one who needs to be recognized and exalted a live the others the twelve apostles all
Have the same commission preach the gospel to all people beginning with Jerusalem. To be his witnesses to the world of his kingdom and resurrection

Paul indeed has a special place as do Peter and John I myself adore Paul he’s wonderful but he’s no different from the other apostles

Paul’s words

“For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter wasn’t disparaging Paul’s letters and he definately wasn’t saying he couldn’t understand them he’s earning the church of the” paulites “ who pluck grave verses from thoer context and eliminate the truth form them because they are king handed and Paul speaks long explanations easy to pluck and cherry pick his letters a lot of people have made millions by doing that even today they still gain the world and lead others into destruction as Peter warned

Peter was saying this

“Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s about the verse pluckers who create doctrines based on words taken out of a whole letter in order to explain it for you and sell their message of unconditional repentance free , confession free , baptism free , believing the word of God the gospel free message on darkness

trouble is it’s all the thkngs Jesus said to do and be saved they are eliminating by “ unwarranted favor “ and single verse quotes until they shape a message folks will buy

Paul’s the most eloquent writer among them but he also takes a long time to get to his massively engrossing and magnificent points when we grab a verse it’s never going to hold the message but a chapter always does

 

[Nehemiah6]

...no Peter wasn’t unstable he was warp king of people who tried to eliminate the gospel of Jesus Christ , and exalt Paul to some place he never belonged...

Did you actually compose this nonsensical sentence? Who is a "warp king"? Paul did have a unique ministry in that he was given revelations about the Church which were not given to the other apostles. The fact that Paul wrote over half the New Testament, and all his epistles were classified as "Scripture" by Peter counts for much.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The question really makes no sense. Faith is a gift FROM God.

It depends on which faith you are referring to. There is the spiritual gift of faith which is given to believers (1 Cor 12:9). There is also the spiritual fruit of faith which is given to believers (Gal 5:22). But saving faith is NOT a gift from God. Rather it is the result of the preaching of the Gospel under the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 10). Thus "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God (the Gospel)" (Rom 10:17).

Only those who promote Calvinistic unconditional election claim that saving faith is a "gift" from God to the so-called "elect". But since salvation is offered to all -- "whosoever" -- saving faith comes from the preaching of the Gospel, which is to be preached in all the world and to "every creature" (Mk 16:15,16). Since God desires the salvation of all mankind, He has made provision for all to believe. Thus the Gospel is "the power of God unto salvation" (Rom 1:16).