Post Trib Rapture?

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notonmywatch

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In the other viewpoints, ALL saints are "glorified" at the time of His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19), and all the unsaved / unbelievers / lost / wicked / goats / tares (etc) are destroyed / killed. So how did the earth become so populated as to say of them "the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" regarding ppl / mortals who could conceivably be "deceived" [as is Satan's AIM / OBJECTIVE at that point in time]?? Where did these MORTALS COME FROM (in your perspective / the post-trib perspective and others like it) at that point in the chronology??
Who said that all the unsaved/unbelievers/lost/wicked/goats/tares (etc.) are destroyed/killed at the time of Christ's second coming to the earth?

The Bible teaches no such thing, as most of the wicked aren't dealt with until after Christ's Millennial Reign.

Daniel 7

11I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Daniel's chronology is that the beast is slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As far as the other beasts or other kingdoms are concerned, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. In other words, they weren't destroyed at the same time that the other beast was. This perfectly coincides with John's chronology in the book of Revelation.

Revelation 19

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Revelation 20

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

In Revelation chapter 19, Jesus returns with his saints. At that time, the time of his second coming, the beast, or the Antichrist, will be taken and cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone (Revelation 19:20), or the beast will be slain, and his body will be destroyed, as it is given to the burning flame (Daniel 7:11).

After this, the saints of God will reign and rule with Jesus over the nations or kingdoms which yet remain for 1000 years, or they will reign and rule with Jesus over the rest of the beasts, who had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time (Daniel 7:12).

Imaginary problem solved.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Who said that all the unsaved/unbelievers/lost/wicked/goats/tares (etc.) are destroyed/killed at the time of Christ's second coming to the earth?
I explained all that in the rest of that post (Post #100... which I didn't quote ALL of it in that latest post)...

... in the "one taken, the other left" passages (particularly the one in Lk17:27,29--though I believe all the passages speaking of this are referring to the SAME time-slot), where Lk17:27,29 states "and DESTROYED [G622] them ALL"

(I mentioned how all passages speaking to this point in time AGREE)
The Bible teaches no such thing, as most of the wicked aren't dealt with until after Christ's Millennial Reign.
I disagree, for reasons I stated in the rest of that post (and many other reasons... and passages speaking to same)


Daniel 7

11I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Are you sure you're speaking of the "beasts" that Daniel 7 was speaking of? (and not the "10 horns / kings" and the "another horn / king" spoken of in the same chpt?)

Daniel's chronology is that the beast is slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As far as the other beasts or other kingdoms are concerned, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. In other words, they weren't destroyed at the same time that the other beast was.
This perfectly coincides with John's chronology in the book of Revelation.
I see how the "another horn / king" with a "MOUTH" speaking great things / the great things which the horn spake... (i.e. the other [horn] which came up)... a mouth that spake very great things, "whose look was MORE STOUT THAN HIS FELLOWS"... who "made war with the saints, AND PREVAILED AGAINST THEM" coincides with the "MOUTH" in Rev13:5-7--that is, the "individual man" aspect of the "beast [rise up out of the sea]" v.1... otherwise known as "the AC / the man of sin" (individual man aspect).
 
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RichMan

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Where did I ever state that these "elect" (in Matt24:31) are NOT "saints"?? (if that's what you're suggesting I said).



I already stated in Post #100 (which I quote in part in my previous post just now) that ONLY "SAINTS / SAVED PERSONS / BELIEVERS" will ENTER the MK age (commencing upon His RETURN to the earth Rev19... which is the Subject of Matt24:29-31/Isa27:12-13,9 ! [verse 9 connecting with what Rom11:26-27 tells us, as well as the "time-prophecy" of Dan9:24, re: Israel's "future"!])


Do you have an answer to my Post #100? - https://christianchat.com/threads/post-trib-rapture.209486/post-5010611
You are approaching this subject with the belief in the pre-trib rapture of the church and that blinds you to see the truth that is so plain.
You continue to search and interpret to prove that belief.
You go to such great lengths and many words to do so.
Why not just believe the simple truth?
It ain't complicated.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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"Pre-tribbers" acknowledge (just as Paul did) that "persecutionS and tribulationS" have been the experience of "the Church which is His body" THROUGHOUT its existence since the first century... (Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence])...

... example: 2Th1:4 he says to the Thessalonians, "So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: " [and one reason why it was a PERFECTLY REASONABLE THING for the Thessalonians to be (wrongly) persuaded (and troubled / shaken in mind) by anyone trying to present the "false claim" to them, as 2Th2:2 Paul points out to them as its saying, "[purporting] that the Day of the Lord is present [perfect indicative]"
--It wasn't. And Paul explains WHY this is NOT SO... and reiterates the proper SEQUENCE (in agreement with his first epistle to them)... and repeats this SEQUENCE 3x in this context]...





... IOW, "the Church which is His body" is not waiting for a future "7-yr period" IN ORDER to EXPERIENCE IT

(there IS a future 7-yr period--the "kick-off" of its ARRIVAL Paul speaks of as "exactly like [hosper" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" of a woman in labor / with child... the very thing Jesus Himself spoke of in Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' [a certain one BRINGING DECEPTION" and the EQUIVALENT of "SEAL #1" in the "in quickness [noun]" time-period commonly called the "7-yr Trib"... which is the "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / parousia" of "the man of sin"... when he will "be revealed" at the START of those years [not at the 2Th2:4 moment, which comes much later!]).
 

TheDivineWatermark

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You are approaching this subject with the belief in the pre-trib rapture of the church and that blinds you to see the truth that is so plain.
You do the same with your mistaken "idea" that Jesus was referencing "our SNATCH / RAPTURE" in Matt24.

He wasn't.



And I've explained that Matthew 24:29-31 is what Isaiah 27:12-13,9 had prophesied about, and which states they (the elect of Israel--"future" installment, lol) will be gathered "ONE BY ONE" (not "AS ONE" as WE [the "ONE BODY"] will be!)






[study again the matter of "the four winds" which is where they've been "SCATTERED" (Lk21:24 for example)--The Church which is His body has NOT been judicially "scattered"...]
 

Nehemiah6

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Why not just believe the simple truth? It ain't complicated.
No it ain't complicated. Read John 14:1-3 and believe it like a child of ages 6-10. "I will come again and receive you unto myself" is really very plain. When? At any time, unannounced, unexpected, and suddenly. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. (Mt 24:44) Could the Resurrection/Rapture happen today? Absolutely. But there should be no date setting.
 

cv5

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The real actual bona fide Abomination of Desolation occurred in 176 B.C. - the Matthew and Mark accounts of the Olivet Discourse are making a reference to a past event and not predicting a future one.
That is an absolutely ridiculous claim. The grammar is crystal clear in all of these verses.....the event is FUTURE.

Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Mar 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Mat 24:33
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Mar 13:29
So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

Luk 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Luk 21:20
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
 

cv5

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Who said that all the unsaved/unbelievers/lost/wicked/goats/tares (etc.) are destroyed/killed at the time of Christ's second coming to the earth?

The Bible teaches no such thing, as most of the wicked aren't dealt with until after Christ's Millennial Reign.

Daniel 7

11I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Daniel's chronology is that the beast is slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As far as the other beasts or other kingdoms are concerned, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. In other words, they weren't destroyed at the same time that the other beast was. This perfectly coincides with John's chronology in the book of Revelation.

Revelation 19

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Revelation 20

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

In Revelation chapter 19, Jesus returns with his saints. At that time, the time of his second coming, the beast, or the Antichrist, will be taken and cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone (Revelation 19:20), or the beast will be slain, and his body will be destroyed, as it is given to the burning flame (Daniel 7:11).

After this, the saints of God will reign and rule with Jesus over the nations or kingdoms which yet remain for 1000 years, or they will reign and rule with Jesus over the rest of the beasts, who had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time (Daniel 7:12).

Imaginary problem solved.
Jesus did. And these groups (beast armies and nations) constitute everyone (minus redeemed Israel) on planet earth that has survived the 70th week wrath upon the earth dwellers.

First the war that accompanies the SC, then the judgement upon the nations. The combination kills any and all rebels.

Rev 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:19
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.



Mat 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all [GENTILE] nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 

cv5

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I believe that 'Jacob's trouble' is Armageddon.
Jacobs trouble future? Jacobs trouble 70AD? What? You lost me there.

Well.....at least we agree that 70AD is not the AOD nor is this specific date contained in Daniel or any other chronological time-constrained prophecy.

The critical failure in your views are that Daniel's prophecies are all inextricably bound into ALL OF THE OTHER OT PROPHECIES regarding the future final redemption of Israel. And I mean all of them, one way or another. Including those of successions of the gentile kingdoms/nations. All of which really orbit around God's overall plan of redemption for Israel.
 

cv5

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Who said that all the unsaved/unbelievers/lost/wicked/goats/tares (etc.) are destroyed/killed at the time of Christ's second coming to the earth?
Jesus did. Some more.

Mat 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Mat 13:36
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:38
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:40
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
 
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notonmywatch

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Jesus did. Some more.

Mat 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Mat 13:36
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:38
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:40
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Some more what?

Mishandling of the scriptures and misinterpretations of Jesus' words by you?

You don't know what you're talking about.

I'm a bit busy at the moment, but I'll address your errors eventually.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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First the war that accompanies the SC, then the judgement upon the nations. The combination kills any and all rebels.
Pretty much, yes... lol

The disciples' question to Jesus in Matt24:3 (regarding which His RESPONSE is spelled out in TWO CHPTS--24 & 25) was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50, which was re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"...

Their question was NOT about "the end [singular] of the age [singular] TO COME," which "age to come" (the earthly MK age) He had referred to in the PREVIOUS chpt (12:32), and which they rightly "understood" it to be what we now call "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age" (IOW, they were NOT asking Him about the END of THAT... nor did His response cover that matter.)
 

cv5

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Some more what?

Mishandling of the scriptures and misinterpretations of Jesus' words by you?

You don't know what you're talking about.

I'm a bit busy at the moment, but I'll address your errors eventually.
Honestly....don't even bother.....:cautious:
If you cannot grasp nor understand those verses I posted you are wasting your time and my time.

The fact is, all of the wicked are judged and terminated at the SC one way or another.

Yes there IS a final rebellion at the END of the Millenium.....WHEN SATAN IS LOOSED.
That does not in any way detract from the fact that the earth is judged and cleansed at the SC. Including eliminating the beast and false prophet, binding Satan, and killing all rebels.

Rev 20:7
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
 

Mem

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The bible is written in perfect order and concise.

1Thess 4:
15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

The Lord Himself will descend from heaven...and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise...we who are alive and remain will be caught up together (the risen dead and the alive and remain; bundled up?) with them (in the clouds). Who's in the clouds? them, a different group from those caught up together (that is, those on earth, the risen (resurrected; made alive) and remaining alive (mankind), and those in heaven (heavenly hosts?). To meet in the air? No to meet the Lord (Who is) in the air (Lord of heaven and earth).
 

cv5

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Some more what?

Mishandling of the scriptures and misinterpretations of Jesus' words by you?

You don't know what you're talking about.

I'm a bit busy at the moment, but I'll address your errors eventually.
Not to mention the multitude of OT prophecies of the millennial kingdom indicating a peaceful reign, and even peace in the animal kingdom.

There will be NO ongoing wicked rebel guerilla warfare, crooked politicians, robber barons, NWO globalist nutters, organized crime mafioso, drug culture, Hollyweird sicko movies, war among nations or weaponry, child abuse, Chinese labor camps, SA drug lords, Russian oligarchs, or Joe and Hunter Bidens.

There will however be swift justice meted out by the Lord and His Saints.

Jer 23:5
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

1Co 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
 

Pilgrimshope

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Right!

We agree on these ^ points (in quotes above)! (y)



Glad we can agree on this point, at least for the most part! Woo! :D


[John 2:13-22 is not the same context as Matt24:1-2 and its parallels]
yeah it’s not even the same subject matter is the thing
 

Pilgrimshope

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Matthew 24
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Again, how do you know Jesus was not looking NOR POINTED at the temple with the Jews?

jesus is talking about the temple building in Jerusalem they are sitting there looking at that’s Matthew 24s context

This which you quoted has nothing to do with the temple building in Jerusalem that was destroyed 2000 years ago

“Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
‭‭John‬ ‭2:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That has no correlation to Matthew 24

desolation was what God promised israel free they broke the covenant if they didn’t repent and accept the messiah when he came and they rejected him so his words were fulfilled regarding Israel’s temple and covenant it’s desolate now

they as well as everyone else has to accept the New Testament to have any life
 

Pilgrimshope

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And I'm saying Jesus uses physical things to preach spiritual things. 70ad is not a spiritual thing, it's a physical thing.
that’s actually not what you did you were tying John 2 to Matthew 24 they don’t correlate they are of two seperate testaments one has to conclude before the other can be instituted

One is about Jesus death and resurrection

The other is about the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem ( which happened in 67-70 ad)

that’s my point and it’s simple reading the context of both is the only requirement

You know what might help ? How about Marks contemporary of Mathew 24 regarding this

“And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, Tell us, when shall these things be?

and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:1-4 ‭KJV‬‬

Can you agree that Jerusalem was besieged and destroyed and the temple was destroyed in 67 -70 ads Roman siege ? And that the Jews were dispersed then into the rest of the world ?

if we can’t at least agree with what happened there’s no reason for us to keep going
 
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RichMan

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You do the same with your mistaken "idea" that Jesus was referencing "our SNATCH / RAPTURE" in Matt24.

He wasn't.



And I've explained that Matthew 24:29-31 is what Isaiah 27:12-13,9 had prophesied about, and which states they (the elect of Israel--"future" installment, lol) will be gathered "ONE BY ONE" (not "AS ONE" as WE [the "ONE BODY"] will be!)






[study again the matter of "the four winds" which is where they've been "SCATTERED" (Lk21:24 for example)--The Church which is His body has NOT been judicially "scattered"...]
So now you are saying there are two groups of believers, Jews and Gentiles.
Even three, Jews, "the Church", and those saved after the "rapture of the church".
I suppose you can explain away what Paul taught in Ephesians 2 about there being ONE body of believers.
There is one body of believers/saints and one body of believers/saints in the resurrection and will be one body of believers/saints in heaven. ALL whose names are in the book of life.
And ALL will be in the first resurrection.
I'am done with you and your foolish teaching.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Even three, Jews, "the Church", and those saved after the "rapture of the church".
Your list is STILL too short.

Abraham was not a Jew bro. Are you telling us he was not saved? Same goes for Noah and Shem.
Oooppps did you forget about the two witnesses of Revelation? How would you categorize them?