PREDESTINATION (CALVINISM) VS. HUMAN FREE WILL (ARMINIANISM)

[2ndTimothyGroup]

First of all, Predestination is not Calvinism. The title of this thread is false. Predestination is of God, not Calvin.

Thank you for sharing, but I don't know anything about Calvinism or Arminianism. I used to waste my time studying what other people, or groups of people believed. Now, I am 100% concerned about what the Bible has to say rather than what a group of people have to say.

I'm not entirely sure why you wrote this to me, but thanks for reaching out. I hope you're one of the friendly ones here . . . Christian forums typically aren't very friendly places to be.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Well, I can't comment on that as I didn't say that. But I understand that conclusion

Hello again,

Regarding the Scripture below, and considering that you believe in the free will choice to willfully sin, how would the below Scripture not apply to you?

Hebrews 10:26 NKJV - "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins . . ."

 

[PaulThomson]

Look at how you do what you cll Bible interpretation. To take a verse out of context here and a few words of a verse over there and another part of a verse there and cobble them and force them togeher with a lot of philosophical grease to make an image toyou call the gospel and amother image you call God.

Your point 1 was valid. At point 2 you started to veer off course with your inductive reasoning jumping you from one occurence of the terms sheep and goats to an unwarranted generalisation concerning all sheep and goats (that all references to sheep are to people in Christ)..

And it was a tumble downhill from there.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Look at how you do what you cll Bible interpretation. To take a verse out of context here and a few words of a verse over there and another part of a verse there and cobble them and force them togeher with a lot of philosophical grease to make an image toyou call the gospel and amother image you call God.

Your point 1 was valid. At point 2 you started to veer off course with your inductive reasoning jumping you from one occurence of the terms sheep and goats to an unwarranted generalisation concerning all sheep and goats (that all references to sheep are to people in Christ)..

And it was a tumble downhill from there.

1 Thessalonians 5:11 NIV - "Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."

Ahhhh . . . the Thessalonians. They knew how to Love people, for they were Blessed by God to be such an example to each of us.

 

[wattie]

Hello again,

Regarding the Scripture below, and considering that you believe in the free will choice to willfully sin, how would the below Scripture not apply to you?

Hebrews 10:26 NKJV - "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins . . ."

Context: animal sacrifice

The Hebrew believers here as new believers, have gone back to Judaism rituals, being the sacrifice of bulls and goats.

Under the New Testament system, they don't do this anymore, and it's treating Jesus's one sacrifice for all as nothing.

So it's about putting Judaism ways behind them and going on to mature faith in Christ.

They haven't lost salvation, they don't need to get salvation. They need to give up old ways.

 

[wattie]

You mean that you weren't explained the terms of the Covenant that you were entering into?

I acknowledged I was a sinner, understood Jesus is God, that He died for my sin and rose again, asked Jesus to forgive my sin and give me eternal life.

Romans 10:9-10, John 5:24

 

[wattie]

Point of comparison for Hebrews 10:26:

Hebrews 10:16-20 KJVS - This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Remission of sin...no more animal sacrifice for sin.. is the subject here.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Context: animal sacrifice

The Hebrew believers here as new believers, have gone back to Judaism rituals, being the sacrifice of bulls and goats.

Under the New Testament system, they don't do this anymore, and it's treating Jesus's one sacrifice for all as nothing.

So it's about putting Judaism ways behind them and going on to mature faith in Christ.

They haven't lost salvation, they don't need to get salvation. They need to give up old ways.

I can understand pieces of why you've offered what you have. However, the context is not animal sacrifice. The deeper context is the Purified heart that comes through the order of Melchizedek. But, if we don't understand Spiritual Circumcision, which is why I asked if you were explained this Covenant, then this will be a fruitless conversation.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I acknowledged I was a sinner, understood Jesus is God, that He died for my sin and rose again, asked Jesus to forgive my sin and give me eternal life.

Romans 10:9-10, John 5:24

You were supposed to have been taught Spiritual Circumcision. It is the foundation, or fulcrum, of our Faith.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Point of comparison for Hebrews 10:26:

Hebrews 10:16-20 KJVS - This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Remission of sin...no more animal sacrifice for sin.. is the subject here.

It's part of the subject, but not the subject. If you spend a couple years focusing on Spiritual Circumcision, the core context of these passages, and the Bible, will become more clear.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

How sure are you of this? 60/40? 70/30?

110%

 

[wattie]

You were supposed to have been taught Spiritual Circumcision. It is the foundation, or fulcrum, of our Faith.

Spiritual circumcision happens at this point

 

[wattie]

It's part of the subject, but not the subject. If you spend a couple years focusing on Spiritual Circumcision, the core context of these passages, and the Bible, will become more clear.

offering for sin in this passage is animal sacrifice... therefore in Hebrews 10:26 it is also animal sacrifice.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

110%

I hear you. However, given the entire Bible and many passages that indicate God controls the thoughts of humans and animals, can you at least understand why people would believe in a limited sense of free will?

Also, if you could give me an actual example of what it would be like to have your free will violated, I would love that. For example, what if I had the ability to cause you to think and behave without your awareness . . . would that qualify as a violation of your free will?

Thanks!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

offering for sin in this passage is animal sacrifice... therefore in Hebrews 10:26 it is also animal sacrifice.

Lol. Ok.