Predestination is misunderstood...

[Genez]

What do you think free will is? It's not some carte blanche power to do whatever man desires. It's free to choose (when under grace), not free to create. Strewth!

By the looks of things.. The only way some here could think they have free will would be for God to ask them to be his replacement.

 

[sawdust]

it's only human nature to hate the truth

Jesus was fully human so no, it is not human nature to hate the truth, nor is human nature to err (sin). The law that puts our human nature into bondage to sin is in the body, not the mind. Our minds are deceived due to ignorance and an incapacity to discern spiritual truths, not because we have an inherent hatred for the truth.

 

[sawdust]

By the looks of things.. The only way some here could think they have free will would be for God to ask them to be his replacement.

I'm more inclined toward it being the lack of thinking in some cases. Strewth! If by my will I could have whatever my heart desired? Well, let's just say my creation would most probably break all the physical laws. I never was very good at physics.

 

[brightfame52]

8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

They dont believe because Christ didnt die for them as He did His Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Believing in Christ comes with the fact He died for you. So if one never believes, its because He never died for them taking away their sins. See His Death takes away sin and its awful consequences 1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Unbelief is the consequences of sin

 

[PaulThomson]

God knew you would freely choose to believe that....
And, in the manner you would choose to express it as well...

According to your presuppositions, but not according to scripture.

 

[PaulThomson]

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The Holy Spirit no longer seals the born again one?





The seal represents ownership. I provided several definitions for the Greek word sphragízō (translated "sealed" in Eph 1:13):

“The seal is therefore the Holy Spirit Himself, and His presence in the believer denotes ownership and security. The sealing with the Spirit is not an emotional feeling or some mysterious inward experience.” (Gaebelein)​

​

sphragízō (from 4973 /sphragís, "a seal") – properly, to seal (affix) with a signet ring or other instrument to stamp (a roller or seal), i.e. to attest ownership, authorizing (validating) what is sealed.​

​

4972 /sphragízō ("to seal") signifies ownership and the full security carried by the backing (full authority) of the owner. "Sealing" in the ancient world served as a "legal signature" which guaranteed the promise (contents) of what was sealed.​

HELPS Word-studies​

​

(sphragizo from sphragis = seal, engraved object used to make a mark - denoting ownership, approval, or closure of something normally done by pressing into heated wax usually attached to a document or letter) means to set a seal upon or to mark with a seal. To mark so as to certify that something is so. Seals were used to make something secure, to serve as a guarantee of the correctness of the contents, to indicate authenticity, to indicate ownership.​

The Holy Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance. The earnest [Greek arrabōn] is a down payment:

arrhabōn ("down-payment pledge") is the regular term in NT times for "earnest-money," i.e. advance-payment that guarantees the rest will be given. 728 (arrhabṓn) then represents full security backed by the purchaser who supplies sufficient proof they will fulfill the entire pledge (promise).​

HELPS Word-studies​

.

Sealing is shutting out anyone or anything that is not authorised to enter or open what is sealed. The tomb was sealed to prevent anyone entering it apart from someone authorised to enter by the one who sealed it. The scroll with seven seals was not able to be
opened by anyone apart from the one authorised to open it, the Lamb after He had been slain and raised. Our new spirit, given in regeneration, is sealed by the Holy Spirit, so that nothing or no one can enter and defile that is not authorised to enter by the Father and the Son, who gave the seal to the new believer. What examples of ownership and approval are there in scripture where closure, shutting out the unauthorised, is not an obvious meaning of the sealing?

 

[PaulThomson]

Maybe, if you are afarid to choose a champion, I'll just take the first one then and show that it does not prove the columns category is scriptural.

 

[PaulThomson]

No you can't use that reverse psychology, nonsense on me. I have challenged anyone to demonstrate how any of those 100 verses don't fit into the TULIP table. And so far nobody has been able to step up to the plate and defend their false gospel view.

I have given you a 100 verses to prove TULIP, you haven't given me one to support your Arminian heresy

Maybe, if you are too timid to choose a champion, I'll just take the first one then and show that it does not prove the columns category is scriptural.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Look at the TULIP table, then look at the Bible and you will find every single word in the table is Gods Word

still waiting for you to show proof John Calvin wrote tulip

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

No you can't use that reverse psychology, nonsense on me. I have challenged anyone to demonstrate how any of those 100 verses don't fit into the TULIP table. And so far nobody has been able to step up to the plate and defend their false gospel view.

I have given you a 100 verses to prove TULIP, you haven't given me one to support your Arminian heresy

still waiting for you to show proof who wrote the tulip doctrine you hold to.

This is not something you should hold to or preach about when you don't even know who wrote it.

Can you understand why I'm asking now

 

[selahsays]

Correct. There is nothing about duration in "knowing you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you sent. Satan knew God before he rebelled.

Yes. Satan knew God before he rebelled.
Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. "By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones. "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, That they might gaze at you. "You defiled your sanctuaries By the multitude of your iniquities, By the iniquity of your trading; Therefore I brought fire from your midst; It devoured you, And I turned you to ashes upon the earth In the sight of all who saw you. All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you; You have become a horror, And shall be no more forever." ' "

- Ezekiel 28:11-19

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Yes. Satan knew God before he rebelled.
Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. "By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones. "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, That they might gaze at you. "You defiled your sanctuaries By the multitude of your iniquities, By the iniquity of your trading; Therefore I brought fire from your midst; It devoured you, And I turned you to ashes upon the earth In the sight of all who saw you. All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you; You have become a horror, And shall be no more forever." ' "

- Ezekiel 28:11-19

but it says here he rebelled after the time of moses not that I want to get into this discussion

But clearly the mountain of God refers to the mountain of God, where God appeared to moses.

So it looks it saying Lucifer fell at the time of moses.

But is this really speaking of Lucifer anyhow

 

[Jimbone]

Genesis 3:6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and that it was desirable
for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it.

Yeah like I told thunder, I read this 1,000 times and never noticed that. defiantly worth some new thought.

 

[Charlie_2024]

it's your choice to follow your minister and ignore the plain words in Scripture.

1 Corinthians 1 [NLT]:

1 I appeal to you, dear brothers and sisters, by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, to live in harmony with each other. Let there be no divisions in the church. Rather, be of one mind, united in thought and purpose.

11 For some members of Chloe’s household have told me about your quarrels, my dear brothers and sisters.

12 Some of you are saying, “I am a follower of Paul.” Others are saying, “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Peter, or “I follow only Christ.”


1 Corinthians 3 [NLT]:

3 for you are still controlled by your sinful nature. You are jealous of one another and quarrel with each other. Doesn’t that prove you are controlled by your sinful nature? Aren’t you living like people of the world?

4 When one of you says, “I am a follower of Paul,” and another says, “I follow Apollos,” aren’t you acting just like people of the world?


I will read what is written in Scripture, believe what is written, and heed the warning.
.

Ok, so now you're the only on who has cracked the code and interpreted written scripture. You have a serious problem, because there are 40,000 different interpretations. Yours is lost among the 40,000 but you have convinced yourself that you smarter then the other 40,000 and your private interpretation is the correct one.

I wish you lots of luck, and I know your not even a shepherd but you are a rouge sheep assuming the authority of a shepherd. My shepherded warned me about a hungry lion which devours smart rouge sheep. Hope the loin doesn't find you, but we know they smell prey from a long distance away.

Lot's of luck and enjoy your safari.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Jesus was fully human so no, it is not human nature to hate the truth, nor is human nature to err (sin). The law that puts our human nature into bondage to sin is in the body, not the mind. Our minds are deceived due to ignorance and an incapacity to discern spiritual truths, not because we have an inherent hatred for the truth.

Did you get this stuff from Eastern Mysticisms?, it sounds like the philosophy of Confuses., The bible would never teach that sort of gobbledygook.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Ok, so now you're the only on who has cracked the code and interpreted written scripture. You have a serious problem, because there are 40,000 different interpretations. Yours is lost among the 40,000 but you have convinced yourself that you smarter then the other 40,000 and your private interpretation is the correct one.

I wish you lots of luck, and I know your not even a shepherd but you are a rouge sheep assuming the authority of a shepherd. My shepherded warned me about a hungry lion which devours smart rouge sheep. Hope the loin doesn't find you, but we know they smell prey from a long distance away.

Lot's of luck and enjoy your safari.

this comment is also depraving

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Evidently the tulip doctrine has given licence to deprave the depraved.

But also evidently the tulip doctrine has infected people with a license to hold themselves above those yet to be elected.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Maybe, if you are too timid to choose a champion, I'll just take the first one then and show that it does not prove the columns category is scriptural.

Please enlighten me, I would love for someone to find a single fault with TULIP, then I'll jump ship and join you Armenians. Every Arminian promises to find a fault and I have offered my house to anyone who can but I've been waiting years and nobody has come forward to claim it.

It's worth a shot, you never know your luck and I wish you lots of it

 

[Charlie_2024]

still waiting for you to show proof John Calvin wrote tulip

i don't want to shock you out of your comfort zone.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Please enlighten me, I would love for someone to find a single fault with TULIP, then I'll jump ship and join you Armenians. Every Arminian promises to find a fault and I have offered my house to anyone who can but I've been waiting years and nobody has come forward to claim it.

It's worth a shot, you never know your luck and I wish you lots of it

no point in finding fault in a doctrine that as of yet you cant show proof who wrote it.