Predestination is misunderstood...

[Johann]

you can't rise from the dead until you rise with Christ,

The search results provided do not directly address the question "you can't rise from the dead until you rise with Christ," --

but they do provide relevant information on rising with Christ and the connection between Christ's resurrection and our own.

The instruction "Ad resurgendum cum Christo" from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith states that to rise with Christ, we must die with Christ, meaning we must be united with Christ through Baptism and share in His death and resurrection

. According to the New Testament, Christ's resurrection frees us from sin and grants us access to a new life (Romans 6:4), and we are called to follow Christ in dying to self and living in union with Him (Romans 6:1-14)

J.

 

[Johann]

They weren't seeking Him which is why they suffered. It was God's mercies that kept them from being wiped out. The writer is reflecting on how they are still going and realises it is God's mercy and compassion on people even when they are wrong, wrong, wrong!

 

[Johann]

They weren't seeking Him which is why they suffered. It was God's mercies that kept them from being wiped out. The writer is reflecting on how they are still going and realises it is God's mercy and compassion on people even when they are wrong, wrong, wrong!

Many, many Scripture references in the New Testament re the wicked, immoral people on their way to eternal separation and destruction with the wrath of God Presently abiding upon them brother!
J.

 

[Genez]

you can't rise from the dead until you rise with Christ, as confirmed here.


Acts 2:38

New International Version



38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

You missed the point that Paul was making....
He was speaking to believers!

​

“Wake up, sleeper,​

rise from the dead,​

and Christ will shine on you.”​

​

Ephesians 5:14​

Paul was saying..

When believers operate in their emotions and natural manner of thinking?
They are seen as dull and stupid to God. "Asleep." "Dead."

Dead and not usable to God for His glorification through that believer.

"Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, ​

but whoever hates correction is stupid." Proverbs 12:1​

​

Looks like most likely God would get warnings here! ....



.........

 

[Cameron143]

The source originates in the flesh. It enslaves the heart (mind) because it is ignorant of God and has no way of knowing God being as we are born spiritually dead. But grace comes along, controls the flesh and enlightens the mind so the heart is free to accept or reject the truth shown. This is why no-one is with excuse for the grace of God ensures everyone answers to Him of their own free will just as Adam and Eve did. Under Calvinism, those in the Lake of Fire have an excuse. "God didn't pick me"

If the heart were in constant opposition (like the flesh is) it would mean God has created us as evil creatures. We are born neither good nor evil but are a "blank slate" with regards to character. Good and evil must be learned. There are those who prefer evil. They like it and those who don't prefer evil will never understand them and they us. That is the mystery of evil.

The heart is the wellspring of life. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. It is the substance of the heart that controls our thoughts and actions.
And we are born opposed to God...Ephesians 2:1-3, Romans 3:10 and following.

 

[Johann]

The heart is the wellspring of life. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. It is the substance of the heart that controls our thoughts and actions.

The statements regarding the heart as the wellspring of life, the source of speech, and the controller of thoughts and actions are drawn from both the Old and New Testaments.

Heart as the wellspring of life: Proverbs 4:23 advises, "Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life." This verse suggests that the heart is the source of vitality and wisdom, and therefore, taking care of the heart is crucial for maintaining a healthy life.

Abundance of the heart leading to speech: Luke 6:45 states, "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil." This verse implies that what comes out of our mouth reflects the contents of our hearts.

Substance of the heart controlling thoughts and actions: Psalm 19:14 declares, "Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Your sight, O Lord, my rock and my Redeemer."

This verse indicates that our thoughts originate from the depths of our hearts and influence our actions.

Overall, the Bible presents the heart as a central location of our inner lives, influencing our thoughts, emotions, decisions, and behaviors. The heart serves as the foundation for our words and actions, reflecting the state of our souls. Cultivating a pure and godly heart leads to positive outcomes in our lives.

J.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You missed the point that Paul was making....
He was speaking to believers!

​

“Wake up, sleeper,​

rise from the dead,​

and Christ will shine on you.”​

​

Ephesians 5:14​

Paul was saying..

When believers operate in their emotions and natural manner of thinking?
They are seen as dull and stupid to God. "Asleep." "Dead."

Dead and not usable to God for His glorification through that believer.

"Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, ​

but whoever hates correction is stupid." Proverbs 12:1​

​

Looks like most likely God would get warnings here! ....



.........

. Ok Mr preacher but I go with the notion true believers are not sleepers anymore but thanks anyway.

They have risen from the dead with Christ.

But thanks for putting me in a box anyway 😊

 

[Mem]

It's exactly true. The unforgivable sin is a very specific sin.

What is the root of the very specific fruit.

 

[Mem]

Just yes or no. No qualifications. Am I justified?

I'm going to keep with the root of the fruit angle. You die in your sin because you refuse to enter by faith. There's no root in your fruit.

 

[Cameron143]

What is the root of the very specific fruit.

Did you mean fruit or sin?

 

[Magenta]

The heart is the wellspring of life. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
It is the substance of the heart that controls our thoughts and actions.
And we are born opposed to God...Ephesians 2:1-3, Romans 3:10 and following.

Proverbs 4:20-23

 

[Mem]

Did you mean fruit or sin?

I equate sin with evil, or bad, fruit.

 

[Johann]

Did you mean fruit or sin?

What is the root of the very specific fruit?" The question is unclear and could be interpreted in different ways. It is possible that the question is asking about the root of a specific fruit, but without more information, it is impossible to provide an accurate answer. It is also possible that the question is a play on words, and the word "root" is being used metaphorically. In this case, the answer would depend on the intended meaning of the question.
J.

 

[Johann]

I equate sin with evil, or bad, fruit.

In the context of comparing sin with evil or bad fruit, the roots of this analogy can be drawn from several aspects of Christian thought and scriptural references.
First, the concept of "bad fruit" is derived from Jesus' teachings in Matthew 7:16-18, where he warns against judging others based solely on their behaviors, since it is the heart that determines whether good or bad fruit will grow

Second, the idea of sin leading to negative outcomes is supported by the Seven Bitter Fruits of Sin described in the article from Open the Bible

, which includes deception, perishing, refusal, pleasure, delusion, belief, and ultimate condemnation. Each of these represents a consequence of sin that grows from the heart.
Third, the comparison of sin to the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden highlights the connection between disobeying God's commands and experiencing undesirable consequences

Lastly, the New Testament teaches that sin originates in the heart, rather than merely manifesting itself in our actions

. This means that addressing sin requires dealing with the underlying causes, rather than just modifying behavior.
To summarize, the roots of the analogy between sin and bad fruit lie in Jesus' teachings, the Seven Bitter Fruits of Sin, the story of the forbidden fruit, and the understanding that sin arises from the heart
J.

 

[Johann]

In the context of comparing sin with evil or bad fruit, the roots of this analogy can be drawn from several aspects of Christian thought and scriptural references.
First, the concept of "bad fruit" is derived from Jesus' teachings in Matthew 7:16-18, where he warns against judging others based solely on their behaviors, since it is the heart that determines whether good or bad fruit will grow

Second, the idea of sin leading to negative outcomes is supported by the Seven Bitter Fruits of Sin described in the article from Open the Bible

, which includes deception, perishing, refusal, pleasure, delusion, belief, and ultimate condemnation. Each of these represents a consequence of sin that grows from the heart.
Third, the comparison of sin to the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden highlights the connection between disobeying God's commands and experiencing undesirable consequences

Lastly, the New Testament teaches that sin originates in the heart, rather than merely manifesting itself in our actions

. This means that addressing sin requires dealing with the underlying causes, rather than just modifying behavior.
To summarize, the roots of the analogy between sin and bad fruit lie in Jesus' teachings, the Seven Bitter Fruits of Sin, the story of the forbidden fruit, and the understanding that sin arises from the heart
J.

 

[Mem]

In the context of comparing sin with evil or bad fruit, the roots of this analogy can be drawn from several aspects of Christian thought and scriptural references.
First, the concept of "bad fruit" is derived from Jesus' teachings in Matthew 7:16-18, where he warns against judging others based solely on their behaviors, since it is the heart that determines whether good or bad fruit will grow

Second, the idea of sin leading to negative outcomes is supported by the Seven Bitter Fruits of Sin described in the article from Open the Bible

, which includes deception, perishing, refusal, pleasure, delusion, belief, and ultimate condemnation. Each of these represents a consequence of sin that grows from the heart.
Third, the comparison of sin to the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden highlights the connection between disobeying God's commands and experiencing undesirable consequences

Lastly, the New Testament teaches that sin originates in the heart, rather than merely manifesting itself in our actions

. This means that addressing sin requires dealing with the underlying causes, rather than just modifying behavior.
To summarize, the roots of the analogy between sin and bad fruit lie in Jesus' teachings, the Seven Bitter Fruits of Sin, the story of the forbidden fruit, and the understanding that sin arises from the heart
J.

This doesn't discredit my keeping with my 'root of the fruit' them. The root must be in the branch, or rather the branch must be grafted into the root, for it to bear good fruit. So, to make my motto more precise, I'd say, "If we have no good root, then we have no good fruit. "

 

[Cameron143]

I'm going to keep with the root of the fruit angle. You die in your sin because you refuse to enter by faith. There's no root in your fruit.

There is no life imparted. Mankind is dead in their trespasses and sin. They are helpless to do anything about it. And they are doomed. This is the message of Ephesians 2:1-3. And they will remain that way unless verse 4 happens...but God. If God doesn't intervene on behalf of an individual, they will perish. Mankind is incapable of being saved unless God comes to them and quickens them.
Look at the natural estate of fallen man from Romans 3...
Verse 10...none righteous
Verse 11...none with understanding
Verse 11...none seeking God
Verse 12...all unprofitable
Verse 12...none who do good
It's probably the rawest but most accurate description of who we once were. We were wicked and vile before the Lord and didn't even understand how offensive we were. Neither could we gain such understanding through our own efforts or understanding. We were completely contrary to God and living as though we alone,and not God, had claim upon our lives. And had He not have graciously attended to our needs, we would have remained under condemnation and perished.
Thankfully, God did intervene and placed the life of Christ in us. And all that we become we owe to God. There is no fruit in us apart from His work in us.

 

[Johann]

This doesn't discredit my keeping with my 'root of the fruit' them. The root must be in the branch, or rather the branch must be grafted into the root, for it to bear good fruit. So, to make my motto more precise, I'd say, "If we have no good root, then we have no good fruit. "

Luk_6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Luk_6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

Luk_8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Luk_8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

Luk_8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Luk_13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

Luk_13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

Luk_13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

 

[Mem]

There is no life imparted. Mankind is dead in their trespasses and sin. They are helpless to do anything about it. And they are doomed. This is the message of Ephesians 2:1-3. And they will remain that way unless verse 4 happens...but God. If God doesn't intervene on behalf of an individual, they will perish. Mankind is incapable of being saved unless God comes to them and quickens them.
Look at the natural estate of fallen man from Romans 3...
Verse 10...none righteous
Verse 11...none with understanding
Verse 11...none seeking God
Verse 12...all unprofitable
Verse 12...none who do good
It's probably the rawest but most accurate description of who we once were. We were wicked and vile before the Lord and didn't even understand how offensive we were. Neither could we gain such understanding through our own efforts or understanding. We were completely contrary to God and living as though we alone,and not God, had claim upon our lives. And had He not have graciously attended to our needs, we would have remained under condemnation and perished.
Thankfully, God did intervene and placed the life of Christ in us. And all that we become we owe to God. There is no fruit in us apart from His work in us.

Why then is there the call that all men should repent?

 

[Johann]

There is no life imparted. Mankind is dead in their trespasses and sin. They are helpless to do anything about it. And they are doomed. This is the message of Ephesians 2:1-3. And they will remain that way unless verse 4 happens...but God. If God doesn't intervene on behalf of an individual, they will perish. Mankind is incapable of being saved unless God comes to them and quickens them.
Look at the natural estate of fallen man from Romans 3...
Verse 10...none righteous
Verse 11...none with understanding
Verse 11...none seeking God
Verse 12...all unprofitable
Verse 12...none who do good
It's probably the rawest but most accurate description of who we once were. We were wicked and vile before the Lord and didn't even understand how offensive we were. Neither could we gain such understanding through our own efforts or understanding. We were completely contrary to God and living as though we alone,and not God, had claim upon our lives. And had He not have graciously attended to our needs, we would have remained under condemnation and perished.
Thankfully, God did intervene and placed the life of Christ in us. And all that we become we owe to God. There is no fruit in us apart from His work in us.

Praise our Lord God and Messiah for His great mercy and grace-to me-the chiefest of sinners-sheer grace.
J.