Predestination is misunderstood...

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Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Sorry I can't agree with any of that as it doesn't line up with what my bible teaches about the matter.

My bible doesn't say to look for these things to identify false teachers. Faithful teachers also exhibit those same signs. Jesus never implied that those signs, were the smoking gun, when He condemned those false professors.
Are you saying/admitting that your teachers prophesy and cast out demons?

‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do
many mighty works in your name?’


The gift of prophecy ended.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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yet most people today when asked will say that they are saved because they accepted Christ.
After being saved they learned to say that, and leave those who have not, wondering....

Its understood by those who know. They say that to see if you know.

Why get on their case if you have accepted Christ?
 
Mar 7, 2024
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As I thought, opinions and zero scripture.
I can give you as many supporting scriptures as you like, but the problem remains with your interpretation. All scripture must be in harmony with the rest. if any appear to contradict each other, then the problem is with our interpretation and not the scripture.

If you care to know what the two interpretations of the gospel message are, please see the chart I've included below. It's a summary of the two views. It shows why they are opposed and why every Christian hold to one of these two views.

I would love to know what your thoughts are and which side you agree with.

You believe in the 1713505029342.jpeg
 
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there's two more things the Bible says that you don't believe. Jesus daid, "I will be with you always to the end of the age". And Jesus said, nothing is impossible with God."
You say Jesus isn't here, and He can't appear to people, even if he wants to. calvinists don't believe the Bible. They believe in TULIP and refuse to see anything in the Bible that speaks against TULIP. or whatever other nonsense they come up with.
You obviously don't know anything about TILIP, if you did you would find it's composed of actual Bible verses. So if you don't believe that the bible is Gods Word then you won't believe that TULIP is either.

Again I've never heard of anyone being with Jesus, so that verse you appealed to exposes your lack of discernment of Hods Word. Jesus most certainly didn't mean that He would be with us until the very end, if that was true He would be with us but as I keep telling you only the deluded people see Him.

Jesus said many things that aren't true in the literal sense, He spoke in code much of the time and that has left outsiders baffled but His children have no issues with His play on words because we understand His code language. He said "My sheep hear My voice".

Jesus said "I am the door" and people run around claiming that He's made of wood. Jesus said "eat my flesh and drink my blood" and people run around saying we have to be cannibals. Man, please remember to consider the context of a given verse. Plucking out verses in isolation is not wise.

Jesus is Almighty Jehovah God, the creator of all that exists. He is God, He is with His children in Spirit only. He's not available to any man, for private consultation. He's not you buddy He's your God.
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
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But you are free...

Your depravity (flesh) is controlled by God so that your soul can have free will when you are walking in the Spirit.
You have regained free will that way. (You are free not to believe that)

If there were such a thing as "total depravity?"
Then, is so? Even if God controlled and silenced your flesh?
Your soul would keep on rejecting God!!!

Therefore... Its not total depravity!

Depravity? Yes!
Total?
No way!
Then no soul could ever become saved!

We need "balance." The depravity of man. Not, total depravity.

TULIP is a total imbalance that Arminianism improvised and tried to jump on the other side of the scale to level things off.



Dishonest scales are an abomination to the Lord,
But a just weight is His delight.
When pride comes, then comes shame;
But with the humble is wisdom.
The integrity of the upright will guide them,
But the perversity of the unfaithful will destroy them."
Proverbs 11:1-3​


..........grace!
please tell me, on a scale from one to ten, how evil is man in God's description of him below?

Gen 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

or how about these verses?

Jer 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?

Job_15:16 How much less man, who is abominable and filthy, Who drinks iniquity like water!

Isa_64:6 But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.

Rom 3:10 As it is written: "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE;
Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS; THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS AFTER GOD.
Rom 3:12 THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE; THEY HAVE TOGETHER BECOME UNPROFITABLE; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, NO, NOT ONE."

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Anyone who does not see themselves as being slaves to sin will never become slaves of righteousness!
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
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The parable of the sower?
Only one did not believe.

19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it,
the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart.



18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”


It says that the others are saved. But only one of the seeds made right choices after being saved.

The others who believed (and were saved) displeased the Lord because they quit seeking to mature in Christ.
These ones will be denied rewards when it comes time to distribute eternal rewards. (1 Cor 3:11-15)

23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it.
This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”


The last seed like the others accepts the Word and believes.....
But he does not stop there.
He keeps expanding in his knowledge of the more and more of what is to be believed.
He produces in his soul (soil) a lush crop of wisdom and understanding and becomes self sustaining as he lives off its harvest in Christ.

Some seeds just want to concentrate on a single plant.
And, will badger everyone who does not see it his way.

But..

We can not eat tulips to sustain life...



..........
the parable was said to distinguish those who may appear to believe but do not endure to the end because their faith was not from God.

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
696
86
28
The parable of the sower?
Only one did not believe.

19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it,
the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart.



18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”


It says that the others are saved. But only one of the seeds made right choices after being saved.

The others who believed (and were saved) displeased the Lord because they quit seeking to mature in Christ.
These ones will be denied rewards when it comes time to distribute eternal rewards. (1 Cor 3:11-15)

23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it.
This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”


The last seed like the others accepts the Word and believes.....
But he does not stop there.
He keeps expanding in his knowledge of the more and more of what is to be believed.
He produces in his soul (soil) a lush crop of wisdom and understanding and becomes self sustaining as he lives off its harvest in Christ.

Some seeds just want to concentrate on a single plant.
And, will badger everyone who does not see it his way.

But..

We can not eat tulips to sustain life...



..........
the parable was said to distinguish those who may appear to believe but do not endure to the end because their faith was not from God.

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
 
Mar 7, 2024
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Honestly how does your mind drift off into areas that are not even remotely mentioned? When did Christ appear to Paul, before or after the Ascension?

Your argument that Christ has been in heaven since the Ascension as if somehow this limits what He can and cannot do is ridiculous. He is the Lord of the whole universe, if He wants to appear to someone on Earth He is well within His right and ability. Your say so won't stop Him.

Try putting your thinking cap on for a change.
It's evident that you didn't put you thinking cap on before you shot me from the hip.

Christ never appeared to Paul for a start. Paul only heard a voice but he never saw anyone.
 
Mar 7, 2024
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Well it is interesting to me that when John Calvin stated the problem with the church in Corinth was the same as what I pointed out to you several days ago, you settled down. However, you now tell me you follow the Lord Jesus Christ and I will take you at your word.





I'll stick with what God tells us ... and now we have 2 churches!!!

Seriously, though, Charlie_2024, if we would spend more time following the Lord Jesus Christ, I believer there would be more joy and peace in our fellowship one with another.


Psalm 133:1 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
.
That sounds good, but he sad reality is Jesus didn't come into the world to unite people. He came to divide people into two groups. We know this to be true because He said so Himself. "I did not come into the world to bring peace, but I came as a sword to divide"

So scripture proves scripture, regardless of how we feel about it. God doesn't respect persons, so He doesn't care about our feeling. It's all about Him and what He wants.

The best we can do is accept everything He does and never question or complain about anything. He is the ne Person we don't want to get on the wrong side of. He is the only one who casts both body and soul into the lake of fire.
 
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Be a baby all your life....... You need to grow up to see what you just do not get yet.

grace and peace ..................
Please enlighten me with what you think I don't know. I've read the bible a few times over, have I missed something or is this advice about some mystical secret knowledge, which is reserved for the elite. :)
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,746
400
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please tell me, on a scale from one to ten, how evil is man in God's description of him below?

Gen 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
One thing at a time.

Genesis 6:5 speaks of half man/ half angel monstrosity.
Nephilim (giants) roamed the earth at that time....
The earth was filled with rebellion against God.

Did you know that?
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,746
400
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Please enlighten me with what you think I don't know. I've read the bible a few times over, have I missed something or is this advice about some mystical secret knowledge, which is reserved for the elite. :)

You need to find a good pastor teacher...

That's all the enlightenment you need.
 
Mar 7, 2024
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And, tell us? How did you lose your life to save it?

That's what Jesus said...

You need context.

And, Jesus did not say "seek" his life. .

You keep messing up. Yet, act as if we should follow your lead.

For whoever wants to save their life will lose it,
but whoever loses their life for me will find it." Matthew 16:25​

You are becoming an embarrassment.

Now, after that?
Will you now try to save your life?

Who/what keeps pushing you into what you keep doing wrong?

Problem for you.
We do not fall for what you fell for...
Just accept it and live and let live.


........
My previous life consisted of sex drugs and rock 'n roll. I lost that life when, God regenerated me and saved me from slavery to sin.

I have no idea how you came up with this incoherent, unbiblical summary. It's certainly not true of me, You have made many unfounded presumptions. Not a wise thing to do if you're seeking the truth
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
696
86
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After being saved they learned to say that, and leave those who have not, wondering....

Its understood by those who know. They say that to see if you know.

Why get on their case if you have accepted Christ?
they are told that Jesus is outside the door in the cold and only they can do Him a favour and let Him in by choosing to do so and saying a sinners prayer, and unless they do so, they can never be saved and Jesus will be sad for all eternity because they didn't choose Him. This sort of message is an abomination to the holy God of Scripture to whom salvation belongs and those who peddle such rubbish are doing the work of the devil!
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
696
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One thing at a time.

Genesis 6:5 speaks of half man/ half angel monstrosity.
Nephilim (giants) roamed the earth at that time....
The earth was filled with rebellion against God.

Did you know that?
if you can't answer such an important simple question and instead seek to distract from it by talking about giants then you prove that you do not yet know who you are before God. Be a man or do not waste my time!
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,746
400
83
My previous life consisted of sex drugs and rock 'n roll. I lost that life when, God regenerated me and saved me from slavery to sin.

I have no idea how you came up with this incoherent, unbiblical summary. It's certainly not true of me, You have made many unfounded presumptions. Not a wise thing to do if you're seeking the truth
I was on my third set of Ludwigs when I quit the music business -
I knew people who died way before their time....

You can not follow my thinking. That's all you are telling me.
 
Mar 7, 2024
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Bibles do not teach.....

Acts 8:30-33​
So when Philip ran toward the chariot, he heard the man reading from Isaiah the prophet.
Philip asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” He answered,
“How can I understand unless someone explains it to me?”
Then he invited Philip to climb in and sit with him."

You need to find better teachers... to teach you the Bible in a manner that will correct your presumptions.
That does not mean you will.
It just means it would solve your problem.

You're nothing new.
OK, so now you're saying Gods Word has nothing to teach us.

My bible teaches that I must live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God. My bible teaches and instructs me in every area of life. You ignore that fact at your own peril.

God appointed my Shepherd to teach me, so you don't have a problem with my theology, you have a problem with Gods choice of Shepherd.

You don't get to set any rules and standards for interpreting Gods Word, that's Gods business and you can only do damage to Gods Word by adding your private interpretation to what He is saying. I would love to be corrected about anything I've stated, but I don't accept correction from unqualified sheep who try to appoint themselves to the office of a Shepherd.

I welcome all correction and instruction form anyone as long as it's supported by Gods Word and not their emotionally derived views.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,746
400
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they are told that Jesus is outside the door in the cold and only they can do Him a favour and let Him in by choosing to do so and saying a sinners prayer, and unless they do so, they can never be saved and Jesus will be sad for all eternity because they didn't choose Him. This sort of message is an abomination to the holy God of Scripture to whom salvation belongs and those who peddle such rubbish are doing the work of the devil!
Yes... There are many dumb Christians in this world.
But, they are saved dumb Christians....
You seem to think the saved are all wise?
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
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You still don't seem to get what I'm saying. I am not saved because I believe. I am saved because the benchmark God set was to save believers. I could sit here and believe God's word is true till the cows come home, but if it was not His will to save those who are believing, then I would sit here forever unsaved.

So you can stop putting me to the test as if you have some right to evaluate my salvation, because you don't.