Predestination

[serpentslayer]

Neither of you, Shroom and Strangelove, get it; and neither of you has Justified God.
For both of you claim that GOD created, knowing ahead of time that He was going to
one day destroy (the 2nd Death) His creation (the greater part of humanity). And I am
sure that you both would say HE (God) knew Adam would sin. But let me ask you this:
if God knew Adam was going to sin, then, is not the promise He gave Adam of a
perpetual (eternal-like) life for obedience to His Commandment a worthless promise,
given it was one He knew He would never have to make good on (pay up)? Is this just?
Or, given that God would that mercy triumph over justice, would it not have been
better to not create man at all, than to send the majority to hell?

I see it a different way, but this is because i see the Truth of the Beginning a little
clearer than the two of you (Revelation of Adam thread).

God did not know if Adam would sin; but, because man was a special creation apart
from all the other creatures on the planet, one created in the image, and after
the very likeness of the Lord, and one endowed with an eternal soul having free
will, GOd had to have a way to test and judge the man, if it be the case that the man
would chose evil over good. But God had a plan either way. And with the life and
death of Jesus the Christ, God knows fully well the trials and temptations of the flesh,
and the burdens we bare because we are flesh. ANd glory to God for His Holy Spirit,
which enables all who are willful partakers of it to live holy lives (sanctified).

God would that none should perish is the same as saying God would that Adam would
not sin. And if God knew that history was going to run the way it has run even before
HE created, wherefore then did have reason to repent that He made man in the days
before the flood, since He knew that day was already going to come, even by His own
plan?

 

[Abiding]

John 10:25-30
King James Version (KJV)
25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30I and my Father are one.


John 15:16-19
King James Version (KJV)
16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

17These things I command you, that ye love one another.

18If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 17

1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

 

[Abiding]

Neither of you, Shroom and Strangelove, get it; and neither of you has Justified God.
For both of you claim that GOD created, knowing ahead of time that He was going to
one day destroy (the 2nd Death) His creation (the greater part of humanity). And I am
sure that you both would say HE (God) knew Adam would sin. But let me ask you this:
if God knew Adam was going to sin, then, is not the promise He gave Adam of a
perpetual (eternal-like) life for obedience to His Commandment a worthless promise,
given it was one He knew He would never have to make good on (pay up)? Is this just?
Or, given that God would that mercy triumph over justice, would it not have been
better to not create man at all, than to send the majority to hell?

I see it a different way, but this is because i see the Truth of the Beginning a little
clearer than the two of you (Revelation of Adam thread).

God did not know if Adam would sin; but, because man was a special creation apart
from all the other creatures on the planet, one created in the image, and after
the very likeness of the Lord, and one endowed with an eternal soul having free
will, GOd had to have a way to test and judge the man, if it be the case that the man
would chose evil over good. But God had a plan either way. And with the life and
death of Jesus the Christ, God knows fully well the trials and temptations of the flesh,
and the burdens we bare because we are flesh. ANd glory to God for His Holy Spirit,
which enables all who are willful partakers of it to live holy lives (sanctified).

God would that none should perish is the same as saying God would that Adam would
not sin. And if God knew that history was going to run the way it has run even before
HE created, wherefore then did have reason to repent that He made man in the days
before the flood, since He knew that day was already going to come, even by His own
plan? [/QUOT


I dont understand what you said?

 

[shroom2]

Neither of you, Shroom and Strangelove, get it; and neither of you has Justified God.

I wasn't trying to justify God.

For both of you claim that GOD created, knowing ahead of time that He was going to one day destroy (the 2nd Death) His creation (the greater part of humanity). And I am sure that you both would say HE (God) knew Adam would sin.

I wouldn't. Christ was God's contingency plan.

But let me ask you this:

if God knew Adam was going to sin, then, is not the promise He gave Adam of a perpetual (eternal-like) life for obedience to His Commandment a worthless promise, given it was one He knew He would never have to make good on (pay up)? Is this just? Or, given that God would that mercy triumph over justice, would it not have been better to not create man at all, than to send the majority to hell?

I see it a different way, but this is because i see the Truth of the Beginning a little clearer than the two of you (Revelation of Adam thread).

God did not know if Adam would sin; but, because man was a special creation apart from all the other creatures on the planet, one created in the image, and after the very likeness of the Lord, and one endowed with an eternal soul having free will, GOd had to have a way to test and judge the man, if it be the case that the man would chose evil over good. But God had a plan either way. And with the life and death of Jesus the Christ, God knows fully well the trials and temptations of the flesh, and the burdens we bare because we are flesh. ANd glory to God for His Holy Spirit, which enables all who are willful partakers of it to live holy lives (sanctified).

God would that none should perish is the same as saying God would that Adam would not sin. And if God knew that history was going to run the way it has run even before HE created, wherefore then did have reason to repent that He made man in the days before the flood, since He knew that day was already going to come, even by His own plan?

I more or less agree with you.

I do not believe God has absolute foreknowledge. And if He doesn't, predestination of individuals flies right out the window.

I am sure strangelove won't agree. I'll bet 98% of the readers on this forum won't agree.

...that's OK.

 

[Israel]

Uhm....no I dont think Gen 2:1 supports predestination?

(Genesis 2:1) Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Host here probably means, the animals, plants of the earth and most possibly the celestial bodies that adorn the newly created heavens.

Is not YHWH the Lord of hosts? If we were not made, then the works were not finished since the foundation of the world. Then we were with all of creation declared "very good" by our Father.


Or who do you really believe was made first? The beasts? That is why the creation seems to go in reverse order with Adam.

 

[Abiding]

I wasn't trying to justify God.


I wouldn't. Christ was God's contingency plan.

I more or less agree with you.

I do not believe God has absolute foreknowledge. And if He doesn't, predestination of individuals flies right out the window.

I am sure strangelove won't agree. I'll bet 98% of the readers on this forum won't agree.

...that's OK.

````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
what does this verse mean?
Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

 

[Abiding]

1 John 3:20 (NASB95)
20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

Acts 4:27–28 (NASB95)
27 “For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur

 

[Abiding]

````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
what does this verse mean?
Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the begginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

.................................

 

[Strangelove]

Neither of you, Shroom and Strangelove, get it; and neither of you has Justified God.
For both of you claim that GOD created, knowing ahead of time that He was going to
one day destroy (the 2nd Death) His creation (the greater part of humanity). And I am
sure that you both would say HE (God) knew Adam would sin. But let me ask you this:
if God knew Adam was going to sin, then, is not the promise He gave Adam of a
perpetual (eternal-like) life for obedience to His Commandment a worthless promise,
given it was one He knew He would never have to make good on (pay up)? Is this just?
Or, given that God would that mercy triumph over justice, would it not have been
better to not create man at all, than to send the majority to hell?

I see it a different way, but this is because i see the Truth of the Beginning a little
clearer than the two of you (Revelation of Adam thread).

God did not know if Adam would sin; but, because man was a special creation apart
from all the other creatures on the planet, one created in the image, and after
the very likeness of the Lord, and one endowed with an eternal soul having free
will, GOd had to have a way to test and judge the man, if it be the case that the man
would chose evil over good. But God had a plan either way. And with the life and
death of Jesus the Christ, God knows fully well the trials and temptations of the flesh,
and the burdens we bare because we are flesh. ANd glory to God for His Holy Spirit,
which enables all who are willful partakers of it to live holy lives (sanctified).

God would that none should perish is the same as saying God would that Adam would
not sin. And if God knew that history was going to run the way it has run even before
HE created, wherefore then did have reason to repent that He made man in the days
before the flood, since He knew that day was already going to come, even by His own
plan?

I'm really not interested in philosophy or questioning God's motives.

Predestination is what it is. Face it. Live with it.

 

[Strangelove]

Is not YHWH the Lord of hosts? If we were not made, then the works were not finished since the foundation of the world. Then we were with all of creation declared "very good" by our Father.


Or who do you really believe was made first? The beasts? That is why the creation seems to go in reverse order with Adam.

Huh?

.............

 

[shroom2]

````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
what does this verse mean?
Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God does have a plan. It will come to pass.

 

[Strangelove]

.................................

G'night Mikey....

Love you Brother.

 

[Abiding]

I wasn't trying to justify God.


I wouldn't. Christ was God's contingency plan.

I more or less agree with you.

I do not believe God has absolute foreknowledge. And if He doesn't, predestination of individuals flies right out the window.

I am sure strangelove won't agree. I'll bet 98% of the readers on this forum won't agree.

...that's OK.

```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Its impossible for God not to have absolute knowledge. Your mental limits are not His limits.
He doesnt exist in time. He created time. why come to a bible forum and magnify human
reason.

 

[Abiding]

G'night Mikey....

Love you Brother.

Nitey Doc rest well

 

[Israel]

Huh?

.............

God knew Jeremiah before he was even in the womb. He knew Jesus, He knew pharaoh, Moses, Aaron, Saul, David, .... He knew the man picking sticks on the sabbath, He knew both you and me as well. We are all from above.

 

[Strangelove]

God knew Jeremiah before he was even in the womb. He knew Jesus, He knew pharaoh, Moses, Aaron, Saul, David, .... He knew the man picking sticks on the sabbath, He knew both you and me as well. We are all from above.

Ya I know.

I'm just saying that Genesis verse doesnt support that.

 

[zone]

1 John 3:20 (NASB95)
20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

Acts 4:27–28 (NASB95)
27 “For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur

AMEN.

pineapple smoothie mikey?
zonest

 

[Coolendy]

I'm not trying to argue here but what happened in Judas' case, because Christ already knew he(judas) was going to betray Him.

 

[Fencepost]

Jesus is standing at your door knocking friend. He is the saviour for all mankind, wants every child, woman, and man to come to a full knowledge of his divine greatness. How long will you deny him? How long will you not heed that knock. God wants you! Jesus has a very special job that only you can fulfill. Will you heed his call today?

<sings> What a friend we have in Jesus.
Amazing Grace how sweet the sound that saved a wrench like me.
Jesus is so awesome, He stands ready and willing to deliver you.
Our God is an Awesome God he reigns in heaven above with wisdom power and love our God is an awesome God.
Walking tall carry my bible, God does save mankind by the foolishness of preaching.
Have you asked Sir Jesus Christ of Heaven into your heart today friend?

 

[Abiding]

I'm not trying to argue here but what happened in Judas' case, because Christ already knew he(judas) was going to betray Him.[/QUOT




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John 17:11-12
King James Version (KJV)
11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

John 6:66-71
After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. So Jesus said to the Twelve, &#8220;Do you want to go away as well?&#8221; Simon Peter answered him, &#8220;Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.&#8221; Jesus answered them, &#8220;Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.&#8221; He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the Twelve, was going to betray him.

John 13

1 It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.
2 The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus.

7 Jesus replied, &#8220;You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.&#8221;

8 &#8220;No,&#8221; said Peter, &#8220;you shall never wash my feet.&#8221;

Jesus answered, &#8220;Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.&#8221;

9 &#8220;Then, Lord,&#8221; Simon Peter replied, &#8220;not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!&#8221;

10 Jesus answered, &#8220;Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.&#8221; 11 For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.