Preparation for the tribulation.

[Psalm1]

Yeah, only it is worse than that. There are three parables that should be viewed as referring to all Christians.

Matthew 24:45-51. This says half of the so called Christians in Christianity are the evil servant drinking with the drunkards and smiting the servants who are good servants.
Matthew 25:1-13 This tells us more about the good servants. This parable is about virgins who have their lamps lit and are awaiting the coming of Jesus. So these are all the good servants and not the evil servants. But half of them are foolish, they didn't take oil in their vessels because they thought they could simply borrow someone else's oil. This also describes many in Christianity who come to church to get their one week supply of oil instead of having a personal relationship with the Lord.
Matthew 25:14-30. This tells us more about the wise virgins. This is about the servants of the Lord. They all have talents, but only 2 out of the three have been sharing what they have with others so that the Lord would get a profit. One has buried his talent in the backyard. You can say but hold on, those five wise virgins all got to go into the feast. True, but remember the Lord cast out those who were not wearing a wedding garment. The wedding garment is the "righteousnesses of the saints". It is a reference to your ministry. James said that if you help bring someone to salvation it covers a multitude of sins. Our garment is a covering to us.

So then, do the math -- 1/2 x 1/2 x 2/3 = 2/12. That is just like Caleb and Joshua giving a good report and ten spies giving an evil report.

In conclusion it is much more likely that 1/6th of Christians will be raptured, not 1/2.

Quote
""Matthew 25:1-13 This tells us more about the good servants. This parable is about virgins who have their lamps lit and are awaiting the coming of Jesus. So these are all the good servants and not the evil servants. But half of them are foolish, they didn't take oil in their vessels because they thought they could simply borrow someone else's oil. This also describes many in Christianity who come to church to get their one week supply of oil instead of having a personal relationship with the Lord.""

So it is half the Christians taken

 

[Psalm1]

Yeah, only it is worse than that. There are three parables that should be viewed as referring to all Christians.

Matthew 24:45-51. This says half of the so called Christians in Christianity are the evil servant drinking with the drunkards and smiting the servants who are good servants.
Matthew 25:1-13 This tells us more about the good servants. This parable is about virgins who have their lamps lit and are awaiting the coming of Jesus. So these are all the good servants and not the evil servants. But half of them are foolish, they didn't take oil in their vessels because they thought they could simply borrow someone else's oil. This also describes many in Christianity who come to church to get their one week supply of oil instead of having a personal relationship with the Lord.
Matthew 25:14-30. This tells us more about the wise virgins. This is about the servants of the Lord. They all have talents, but only 2 out of the three have been sharing what they have with others so that the Lord would get a profit. One has buried his talent in the backyard. You can say but hold on, those five wise virgins all got to go into the feast. True, but remember the Lord cast out those who were not wearing a wedding garment. The wedding garment is the "righteousnesses of the saints". It is a reference to your ministry. James said that if you help bring someone to salvation it covers a multitude of sins. Our garment is a covering to us.

So then, do the math -- 1/2 x 1/2 x 2/3 = 2/12. That is just like Caleb and Joshua giving a good report and ten spies giving an evil report.

In conclusion it is much more likely that 1/6th of Christians will be raptured, not 1/2.

All believers have at least a trace of oil.
As did the foolish.
The amount is the issue.
So 1/2 is plausible

 

[Psalm1]

Only 9 sentences separate Jesus 2 separate examples of half taken/left.

2 examples given. Almost together.
That is powerful.
Roughly half the church is left behind according to Jesus.

 

[ZNP]

Quote
""Matthew 25:1-13 This tells us more about the good servants. This parable is about virgins who have their lamps lit and are awaiting the coming of Jesus. So these are all the good servants and not the evil servants. But half of them are foolish, they didn't take oil in their vessels because they thought they could simply borrow someone else's oil. This also describes many in Christianity who come to church to get their one week supply of oil instead of having a personal relationship with the Lord.""

So it is half the Christians taken

Not in my opinion. In my opinion let's say that there are 12 people who go to church each week and identify as Christians. Half of them are the "evil" servants eating and drinking with the drunken and smiting the other servants. So now we have 6 out of twelve that are the virgins waiting for the Lord's return with lamps lit. Half of them are foolish, so that leaves 3 out of 12 that go into the wedding feast. But one out of these three is kicked out because they were slothful servants. Also a liar. They say they didn't share the Lord's word (fine gold) with anyone because they were afraid of Jesus? Yeah, right. They were afraid of the people mocking them, ridiculing them, etc. They weren't afraid of the Lord they were afraid of the people. So the Lord says he is not only slothful but wicked because he is lying. Not half, one sixth.

 

[ZNP]

All believers have at least a trace of oil.
As did the foolish.
The amount is the issue.
So 1/2 is plausible

Yes, I believe they have oil and their lamps are lit. But the way they get oil is not by a personal relationship with Jesus, they come to church and borrow oil from others, perhaps the pastor. That is why when their lamps are going out they immediately try to borrow oil from others.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

All believers have at least a trace of oil.
As did the foolish.
The amount is the issue.
So 1/2 is plausible

I think you're missing the point that all of the virgins slumbered and slept, ie they died. Then at Christ's return the wise virgins who had eternal life were resurrected and entered into God's presence. Then later the foolish virgins who weren't ready to meet Christ were resurrected at the great judgment.

 

[ZNP]

I think you're missing the point that all of the virgins slumbered and slept, ie they died. Then at Christ's return the wise virgins who had eternal life were resurrected and entered into God's presence. Then later the foolish virgins who weren't ready to meet Christ were resurrected at the great judgment.

That is definitely one way to interpret these verses. But if you do that it indicates the previous two servants of the Lord in the church (one evil and one good) would be those living and the ten would be those who are dead composing the 12. The problem with that interpretation is what about the three that were given talents? It seems to me these three parables have to be taken as a group indicating three tests for believers: church life, personal walk and ministry. Now the fact that the virgins could indicate the dead in Christ doesn't mean they have to be. Rather the way I look at it, these three tests apply equally to those alive at the Lord's coming and those who have died in Christ.

Church life -- need to be sanctified, separated, constructive members of the body building one another up.

Personal Walk -- need to have a personal relationship with the Lord filled with experiences of Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and being filled in Spirit in our personal walk

Ministry -- Need to be active in ministering the word. Can be as simple as sharing with the bankers (the other Christians).

 

[Mem]

I think you're missing the point that all of the virgins slumbered and slept, ie they died. Then at Christ's return the wise virgins who had eternal life were resurrected and entered into God's presence. Then later the foolish virgins who weren't ready to meet Christ were resurrected at the great judgment.

This generates the thought that the purchased oil, which I've seen argued as representative of the spirit, might rather be representative of one's (God given) life (and any additional purchased (by account of trust in Christ, the bridegroom, and faith in His coming) given with this opportunity given. There was no further opportunity offered once the bridegroom arrives and illuminates the absurdity of the foolish' requests for those that had fully filled lamps to part with a portion of their oil.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

That is definitely one way to interpret these verses. But if you do that it indicates the previous two servants of the Lord in the church (one evil and one good) would be those living and the ten would be those who are dead composing the 12. The problem with that interpretation is what about the three that were given talents? It seems to me these three parables have to be taken as a group indicating three tests for believers: church life, personal walk and ministry. Now the fact that the virgins could indicate the dead in Christ doesn't mean they have to be. Rather the way I look at it, these three tests apply equally to those alive at the Lord's coming and those who have died in Christ.

They're parables. They are not meant to be taken literally. They are teaching principles, not percentages

 

[ZNP]

They're parables. They are not meant to be taken literally. They are teaching principles, not percentages

Then why is the percentage exactly the same as 2/12, like Caleb and Joshua compared to the ten spies who gave an evil report? I don't believe in coincidences. I would also point out that Moses calling up the Levites after breaking the ten commandments is also a type of the rapture. That is 1/12, but my understanding is that the raptured saints fall into two categories with half of them being the 144,000 who will be the army assisting with the gospel in the tribulation like the Levites. We see this as a law in warfare that David established. Half the camp guards the stuff and the other half are the army. Also, why does Samson push out two pillars, again I don't believe in coincidences. In Revelation this rapture is called "the first fruits" and the first fruits are always a small percentage of the total crop.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Then why is the percentage exactly the same as 2/12, like Caleb and Joshua compared to the ten spies who gave an evil report? I don't believe in coincidences.

I don't understand why you come up with the number 12. With all of the parables I think it will be more than that. And what rationale is there for combining disparate parables to get a number?

 

[ZNP]

I don't understand why you come up with the number 12. With all of the parables I think it will be more than that. And what rationale is there for combining disparate parables to get a number?

Then why is the percentage exactly the same as 2/12, like Caleb and Joshua compared to the ten spies who gave an evil report? I don't believe in coincidences. I would also point out that Moses calling up the Levites after breaking the ten commandments is also a type of the rapture. That is 1/12, but my understanding is that the raptured saints fall into two categories with half of them being the 144,000 who will be the army assisting with the gospel in the tribulation like the Levites. We see this as a law in warfare that David established. Half the camp guards the stuff and the other half are the army. Also, why does Samson push out two pillars, again I don't believe in coincidences. In Revelation this rapture is called "the first fruits" and the first fruits are always a small percentage of the total crop.

There are many stories that tell the same thing. Only a remnant are raptured. Think of Elijah, he represents those taken before the tribulation and he thought he was the only one left, the Lord told him He still had 3,000 that had not bent the knee. So a remnant. Think about the book of Revelation and the seven churches. Only one church is told they will be kept from the hour of trial.

If the 144,000 represents half the raptured saints, then you only have 300,000 who are raptured when the world's Christian population is estimated to be 2.4 billion. That is truly a remnant.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Then why is the percentage exactly the same as 2/12, like Caleb and Joshua compared to the ten spies who gave an evil report? I don't believe in coincidences. I would also point out that Moses calling up the Levites after breaking the ten commandments is also a type of the rapture. That is 1/12, but my understanding is that the raptured saints fall into two categories with half of them being the 144,000 who will be the army assisting with the gospel in the tribulation like the Levites. We see this as a law in warfare that David established. Half the camp guards the stuff and the other half are the army. Also, why does Samson push out two pillars, again I don't believe in coincidences. In Revelation this rapture is called "the first fruits" and the first fruits are always a small percentage of the total crop.

There are many stories that tell the same thing. Only a remnant are raptured. Think of Elijah, he represents those taken before the tribulation and he thought he was the only one left, the Lord told him He still had 3,000 that had not bent the knee. So a remnant. Think about the book of Revelation and the seven churches. Only one church is told they will be kept from the hour of trial.

If the 144,000 represents half the raptured saints, then you only have 300,000 who are raptured when the world's Christian population is estimated to be 2.4 billion. That is truly a remnant.

I strongly advise against doing what You're doing. It's waste of time

 

[ZNP]

I strongly advise against doing what You're doing. It's waste of time

What, meditating on the word of God is a waste of time? LOL

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

What, meditating on the word of God is a waste of time? LOL

No, I mean doing the gematria type stuff. There's no warrant or reason for adding numbers together from disparate parables like you're doing

 

[ZNP]

No, I mean doing the gematria type stuff. There's no warrant or reason for adding numbers together from disparate parables like you're doing

That is not gematria.

Gematria -- a Kabbalistic method of interpreting the Hebrew scriptures by computing the numerical value of words, based on those of their constituent letters.

An example of Gematria is when Paul says that the church is the pillar and base of the truth. The gematria of pillar in Hebrew equals the gematria of church in Greek.

Stunning, God is very mathematical, Hebrew and Greek are very mathematical, God frequently tells us precisely how long things will take that is how Daniel understood from Jeremiah who had calculated it from the law of Moses how long they would be in Babylon. I think I'll listen to Moses and Daniel and Jeremiah, but thanks for your input.

 

[WilliamL]

Parousia's wordʼs first New Testament use is found in Matthew 24:3 :

…the disciples came to [Jesus] privately, saying…“what will be the sign of Your parousia, and of the end of the age?”

Jesus then gave them His Mount of Olives discourse about the initial events of the end of the age, those events including the Abomination of Desolation 15) and the Great Tribulation 21). He then said,

Matthew 24:27 “For just as the lightning comes forth from the east and shines unto the west, so also will be the parousia of the Son of Man. … 30 …the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will wail, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

Jesus then went on to explain that “that Day” of “the parousia of the Son of Man” 36-39) will be as unexpected to the worldʼs inhabitants as was the universal judgment of the Noahic Deluge to the people of its day.

This Parousia of the Lord is the time of the resurrection of the dead, which takes place prior to the Rapture:
In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul explains that the resurrection of the dead will come at the parousia of Christ:

15:21 …by Man [Jesus] also comes the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruit, afterward those who are Christʼs at His parousia.

1 Thes. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring together with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we the ones living, the ones remaining until the parousia of the Lord may by no means precede those who are asleep [dead]. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command with the voice of an archangel, and with a trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Thereafter we the ones living, the ones remaining shall be seized/caught up/raptured together with them in clouds, unto a meeting of the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2211-the-parousia-of-the-son-of-man/

 

[WilliamL]

Otherwise known as the 7th trump second coming.

No, otherwise known as the 6th Seal Parousia/"coming."

 

[WilliamL]

Read Rev 14.
That is your prewrath gathering.
BTW..nothing of any postribber position fits Rev 14 or Rev 19.

No, Rev. 14 is the full harvest of the fields and vines, which is gathered into "the barn." Matthew 13:30

Whereas the Rapture is of the firstfruits/firstborn, which are taken to the Temple.

You do not understand the types and shadows of the Mosaic Law, which one must understand in order to know what is going on in Revelation.

56. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 1

An upgrade of article #24. Explains the prophetic application of OT laws about the firstfruits, the firstborn, and the full harvest, as these laws relate to the End Times. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2686-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-1/


57. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 2 https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2687-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-2/

 

[BOY]

Give me a postrib rapture verse.
Should be very easy.
That is your investment of faith ..not the written word.
The written word completely destroys all your supposition.
But maybe you will be the first postibber on the internet to find that nonexistent verse.
Just one verse will do.

All the verses in the Bible are post trim Rapture versus which one would you like besides this one, this ones write out the Rapture.rev 11:And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.