Problem 1: Denominational Correctness
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I want to discuss the clear, logical issues I presented. Those are "real" problems, but this answer is a slightly condescending, more long-winded version of "you need a personal relationship with God before it makes sense". That's not a logical answer to a genuine logical problem, and it doesn't solve the logical problem: there is a fundamental issue with the assertions of correctness of doctrine in all denominations of Christianity, thus a fundamental issue with the concept of Christian truth.
That's the issue, and I made it as clear as is possible in the opening post that I wanted a logical solution to it.
As for "what came first: the chicken, or the egg?", I know the logical solution to that problem. The question asserts that one coming before the other is a priori knowledge, but that's actually an assumption. It's an assumption that is based on a faulty understanding of taxonomic classification:
An organism is compartmentalized from another into a species bracket based on differences in the organism's physical characteristics that are considered by scientists sufficient to warrant such a classification. Before the chicken existed on Earth, the organisms that were chronologically prior to, and evolutionarily prior to, the chicken, existed. If we trace the evolutionary path the whole way back we'll find that eggs developed in the chicken's evolutionary line, long before the chicken itself arrived as a species.
So technically, the "egg" came before the chicken, but only because there were species who reproduced via shelled eggs long before there were chickens on the Earth. But in terms of the chicken egg, both the chicken and the chicken egg exist within the same species bracket. You don't get a specific point in evolutionary history where the chicken exists separate from the chicken egg.
So technically, the chicken and the chicken egg came at precisely the same time.
Regardless of all this,
That's the issue, and I made it as clear as is possible in the opening post that I wanted a logical solution to it.
As for "what came first: the chicken, or the egg?", I know the logical solution to that problem. The question asserts that one coming before the other is a priori knowledge, but that's actually an assumption. It's an assumption that is based on a faulty understanding of taxonomic classification:
An organism is compartmentalized from another into a species bracket based on differences in the organism's physical characteristics that are considered by scientists sufficient to warrant such a classification. Before the chicken existed on Earth, the organisms that were chronologically prior to, and evolutionarily prior to, the chicken, existed. If we trace the evolutionary path the whole way back we'll find that eggs developed in the chicken's evolutionary line, long before the chicken itself arrived as a species.
So technically, the "egg" came before the chicken, but only because there were species who reproduced via shelled eggs long before there were chickens on the Earth. But in terms of the chicken egg, both the chicken and the chicken egg exist within the same species bracket. You don't get a specific point in evolutionary history where the chicken exists separate from the chicken egg.
So technically, the chicken and the chicken egg came at precisely the same time.
Regardless of all this,
A
No, actually that "personal relationship" stuff isn't even something I believe.
LOGICALLY, you need an understanding of the subject matter before fine tuning the different aspects of it. (And the chicken and egg didn't come at the same time no matter what side of that subject you believe. Again, you're just making up your mind without knowing even that subject matter.) This was merely you're long-winded response to avoid the obvious. Still noticing.
LOGICALLY, you need an understanding of the subject matter before fine tuning the different aspects of it. (And the chicken and egg didn't come at the same time no matter what side of that subject you believe. Again, you're just making up your mind without knowing even that subject matter.) This was merely you're long-winded response to avoid the obvious. Still noticing.
A
Answering questions, any advance question, when the asker doesn't have a clue about the subject, is wasted time for both the asker and answerer. Answering questions when the asker clearly doesn't want to understand the subject is also wasted time. Want to keep blaming others on your poor logic tactics or get down to basics yet?
I don't have all the answers, but I have the basics of the subject at hand. It's certainly not "Denominational Correctness." I'm here when you ever get over your excuse list.
I don't have all the answers, but I have the basics of the subject at hand. It's certainly not "Denominational Correctness." I'm here when you ever get over your excuse list.
RB's response: I don't feel threatened or question my faith because of these questions.
I am more threatened by the Pharisees on this forum who mostly prove me right when they can't provide scripture to prove their point. Sigh!
I do not feel threatened either, nor do most here, which is why I stated "try" to cause believers to question their faith......
This continuous presence of deniers on the Forums may not bother those of us more mature in our relationship with Christ, but there are those here who are new believers and/or those who are sincerely seeking to know the Truth, and these who practice deception by denying Christ and the Faith are a real threat to those.
As for providing Scriptural evidence.............every so often someone goes on a rant about people not providing Scripture to prove a point, and then someone goes on a rant about people who are always posting Scripture without offering a personal viewpoint............so it's six of one/half a dozen of the other.
Now, for my point........as I do not believe any of us should be wasting time with these servants of the deceiver, especially on a Christian Forum............consider this:
2 Corinthians 6:14 .) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 .) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 .) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 .) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 .) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
as much as you may be put off by atwhatcost's point, it's entirely valid. there are spiritual reasons for the carnal fracturing among believers, and if you can't understand spiritual things, how can you understand this? it's as though you want to know why there are bosons and fermions, while at the same time, without much knowledge of it, you reject modern physics and are disinclined to learn.
demoninational differences are not entirely theological. some are as petty as church government, method of baptism or taking the Lord's supper, which English translation to use, or other purely 'functional' issues. broadly, there are not many fundamental differences in the basics of the gospel among denominations, though there are examples of divisions that originate in the central tenet of salvation, whether it is by grace alone through faith, or by works, through sacrament -- this is largely the issue that separates Catholicism and Protestantism, and in fact the scripture itself is very clear about that subject. by faith, not works, lest any man should boast. . .
the waters aren't as muddy as you might think. you should drink.
regardless, this gives some insight on the origin, and vanity, of divisions within the Church: have a read.
1 Corinthians 3:
But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?
5 What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7 So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 8 He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. 9 For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building.
10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. 11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
16 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? 17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.
18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” 20 and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” 21 So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future — all are yours, 23 and you are Christ's, and Christ is God's.
demoninational differences are not entirely theological. some are as petty as church government, method of baptism or taking the Lord's supper, which English translation to use, or other purely 'functional' issues. broadly, there are not many fundamental differences in the basics of the gospel among denominations, though there are examples of divisions that originate in the central tenet of salvation, whether it is by grace alone through faith, or by works, through sacrament -- this is largely the issue that separates Catholicism and Protestantism, and in fact the scripture itself is very clear about that subject. by faith, not works, lest any man should boast. . .
the waters aren't as muddy as you might think. you should drink.
regardless, this gives some insight on the origin, and vanity, of divisions within the Church: have a read.
1 Corinthians 3:
But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?
5 What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7 So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 8 He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. 9 For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building.
10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. 11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
16 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? 17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.
18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” 20 and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” 21 So let no one boast in men. For all things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future — all are yours, 23 and you are Christ's, and Christ is God's.