Proof of a Future Millennial Kingdom

zone · Sep 9, 2013

not all who are of israel are israel EG - you have to be in Christ to receive these promises.

Isaiah 60:14
The sons of your oppressors will come and bow down to you; all who reviled you will fall facedown at your feet. They will call you the City of the LORD, Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."

Galatians 4:26
But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

Ephesians 2:19
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God's people and also members of his household,

Hebrews 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly

eternally-gratefull · Sep 9, 2013

zone said:

Zone. have ever been to the middle east. They are still there.

There are still ships and oceans also. Which can carry people there.

Sorry, I do not symbolize everything to make my belief come true. God said it will happen. It will. Why don;t you believe it? You would have to symbolise ALL of the passage, the nations would have to be symbols. God destroying nations which do not worship him would have to be a symbol.

Why do you want to make a symbol of everything. To do this we would have to make HUGE assumptions.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 9, 2013

zone said:

lol.. And?

Isreal will repent. This is when they are returned.

THEY ARE A PART OF THE KINGDOM!

Why do you think they will never repent? Do you have that much angst against them?

Again you did not prove your point.. You ask me to show you. I did. Now you want to symbolise it all away?

shame shame!!

Hoffco · Sep 11, 2013

The key to understanding our day and the end times is in Revelation. The A mill and post mill positions have no bases at all in scripture, they are totally mindless myths, ridiculous fanatic, pipe dreams. The only positions worthy of our consideration are Mid-Tri, Pre-Mill. OR, Pre-wrath, Pre- Mill. OR, Post-Tri, Pre-Mill.. Any one serious , needs to study Rev. 17 carefully. God reveals some very important facts. as to who will be ruling at Jesus 2nd coming to earth. Rev.17:10 (This is in John's day: and God says there are 7 kings, "5 kings have fallen", "one is" now ruling, in John's day, 96AD...."and the other(the 7th one) has not yet come." V. 11 "The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition." I must assume ,that there is a gap of 2,000yrs, between the 7th and the 8th kings. Because the 8th is the beast at the time of the end, and in v. 12, God speaks of 10 kings, "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, ( in John's day) but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast." This would parallel Daniel's ten horns, one of the ten destroys three others and becomes the anti- christ , the man of sin. God has obviously not told us enough to know each detail exactly. BUT this is no surprise to us, God does this all the time. He leaves us in partial darkness. Rev.17:18 "And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth." In Johns day ,that city would be Rome. which is built on 7 hills. It would be interesting if someone who know the history of the old Roman emp. to see if this fits the facts of history. Was there 7 kings of Rome? then it fell apart and will it be revived in our day? The E.U. is too large to fit prophecy, BUT the Med Mediterranean Union is about 10 nations.??? fits the prophecy better. And ,in my thinking ,the antichrist would be better out of Egypt than Europe. The Arabs countries would never accept a messiah from Europe. But, Israel would accept any one as a Messiah. just to get peace. remember Israel is a secular nation. Sorry, BUT, I think this is related to the Millennium topic. My view of Rev. is part history and part future events; we are living in the first four seals today. Hoffco

eternally-gratefull · Sep 11, 2013

Hoffco said:

The key to understanding our day and the end times is in Revelation. The A mill and post mill positions have no bases at all in scripture, they are totally mindless myths, ridiculous fanatic, pipe dreams. The only positions worthy of our consideration are Mid-Tri, Pre-Mill. OR, Pre-wrath, Pre- Mill. OR, Post-Tri, Pre-Mill.. Any one serious , needs to study Rev. 17 carefully. God reveals some very important facts. as to who will be ruling at Jesus 2nd coming to earth. Rev.17:10 (This is in John's day: and God says there are 7 kings, "5 kings have fallen", "one is" now ruling, in John's day, 96AD...."and the other(the 7th one) has not yet come." V. 11 "The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition." I must assume ,that there is a gap of 2,000yrs, between the 7th and the 8th kings. Because the 8th is the beast at the time of the end, and in v. 12, God speaks of 10 kings, "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, ( in John's day) but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast." This would parallel Daniel's ten horns, one of the ten destroys three others and becomes the anti- christ , the man of sin. God has obviously not told us enough to know each detail exactly. BUT this is no surprise to us, God does this all the time. He leaves us in partial darkness. Rev.17:18 "And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth." In Johns day ,that city would be Rome. which is built on 7 hills. It would be interesting if someone who know the history of the old Roman emp. to see if this fits the facts of history. Was there 7 kings of Rome? then it fell apart and will it be revived in our day? The E.U. is too large to fit prophecy, BUT the Med Mediterranean Union is about 10 nations.??? fits the prophecy better. And ,in my thinking ,the antichrist would be better out of Egypt than Europe. The Arabs countries would never accept a messiah from Europe. But, Israel would accept any one as a Messiah. just to get peace. remember Israel is a secular nation. Sorry, BUT, I think this is related to the Millennium topic. My view of Rev. is part history and part future events; we are living in the first four seals today. Hoffco

Can you explain how daniel 9 states this beast is from the people who destroyed the city? (rome)

So how could it be from egypt? Also. No one will have a choice but to follow him.. Thus to say no one would except a europian leader is faulty

zone · Sep 11, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

uh....if jews repent they are grafted in, right?
i've never, ever, not one time said jews can't be grafted in.

me best friend was raised in a jewish home. he's now a christian.
was he ever of the 12 tribes? i doubt it.
nevertheless, he's grafted into the tree.

please don't accuse me of antisemitism.
it's getting really old EG.

zone · Sep 11, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

mmmm....EG.
when the ancient prophets prophesied, they did so using images and languages and promises they understood (mostly) from the nomadic wilderness travels; the action religion of Temple Judaism, and the agricultural and pastoral lifestyle they lived (except under captivity).

God uses lots of war language too - that doesn't mean He is actually fighting or bringing about a war everytime.

okay?

was Jesus being an amillennialist spiritualizer when he said:

John 2
18So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” 19Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21But he was speaking about the temple of his body. 22When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.

like....seems obvious to me where not seeing the spiritual leads.
looking for literal and physical led the Pharisees to reject Him.

how might the jews have understood this:

Ezekiel 34:14
I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.

Psalm 23:1
The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

Isaiah 40:11
He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

did they think they were sheep? or did they understand the way God had always spoken to them?

John 10
I Am the Good Shepherd
1“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.

7So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. 11I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

19There was again a division among the Jews because of these words. 20Many of them said, “He has a demon, and is insane; why listen to him?” 21Others said, “These are not the words of one who is oppressed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

I and the Father Are One
22At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock.

hold on....not part of his flock?
i though ALL ISRAEL will be saved?
what about those guys? will they be resurrected and saved?

which Pharisees today will be saved (if Jesus came today)? all of them? why?
because they claim Abraham for their father?

later gater

Hoffco · Sep 11, 2013

To Zone, Please , don't judge Jesus word's, just believe them. He told the certain Jews on that certain day, you are not my "sheep" , that is why you will not come to Me. Other Jews were elect and came to Jesus. the "all" Jews who will be saved are the "elect"only. "all" the Jews who live thru the great tri. of the antichrist , will see Jesus coming in the sky, and will "all" be saved. Read contextually. connect all the dots, Then you will see the whole picture. Love to all. Hoffco

zone · Sep 11, 2013

Hoffco said:

To Zone, Please , don't judge Jesus word's, just believe them. He told the certain Jews on that certain day, you are not my "sheep" , that is why you will not come to Me. Other Jews were elect and came to Jesus. the "all" Jews who will be saved are the "elect"only. "all" the Jews who live thru the great tri. of the antichrist , will see Jesus coming in the sky, and will "all" be saved. Read contextually. connect all the dots, Then you will see the whole picture. Love to all. Hoffco

thanks hoff.
what great tribulation?

Hoffco · Sep 11, 2013

To eternally grateful, In Jesus day ,Egypt was a part of the Roman Emp.. today Egypt is in the Med. Union of nations, united by the Islam religion, 10 or so nations, It can be called ,a revival of the old Rom. Emp. even though it is not in Europe. Islam unites all the nations around Israel, this is why ,how , they can have a common hatred of Israel. And they will unite against Israel as we have seen in modern times. No outsider can rule Islam . The "people of the prince" who destroyed Jerusalem, Dan.9:26a is the Roman Emp. ; NOW FAST FORWARD

Hoffco · Sep 11, 2013

Tio Zone, & e.g. , NOW FAST FORWARD 2,000 YRS> The great tri. during the 70th week of Daniel, after the Rapture of the Church. The anti christ sets Himself up as god in the Temple and kills all Jews who will not take the Num. 666. The 144,000 are killed. 2/3 rd of the Jews are killed, the wrath of God is poured out. Jesus comes back with the armys of Heaven and kills all who are coming against Jerusalem, then Jesus sets up His 1,000 reign of peace. Hoffco

zone · Sep 11, 2013

Hoffco said:

oh THAT great tribulation

hoff:

1) the 70th week of Daniel is fulfilled

2) there's nothing happening but judgment and eternity after the Rapture of the Church

3) why does The anti christ set Himself up as god in the Temple and kills only all Jews who will not take the Num 666? aren't there other people left behind who are forced to take the mark?

4) what temple?

5) The 144,000 are killed - 2/3 rd of the Jews are killed - kills all Jews who will not take the Num 666 - so 1/3 of all jews take the mark? how about other people who didn't get raptured?

6) who is the wrath of God poured out on? who is it not poured out on?

7) who is left to kill when Jesus comes back with the armys of Heaven? is the church that went in the rapture part of the armies of heaven? are the 144,000 and the 1/3 of the jews who didn't take the mark part of the armies of heaven?

8) who is left alive on earth after the wrath was poured out and Jesus killed everybody else when Jesus sets up His 1,000 reign of peace?

9) is there a giant rebellion and war at the end of the 1,000 years?

if so:

10) what happens at that time?

t.y....zone

zone · Sep 12, 2013

BradC said:

dear friend, there's very little i can do for you, if you think : because Rev 20 is at the end of the Book of Revelation; which is at the end of the Bible - that it means it's the last in a series of events.

rev 20 is a vision (with and i saw, then i saw visions within it) of the whole messianic era from the first to the second advents.

first -------2000 years and counting (fig, a thousand years)---- > second>judgement - eternity.

...

okay - i'm bored

let's pretend the whole book of revelation is about your life - let's say you are a Doctor.

the book is like a photo album/scrapbook - you turn the pages and the things on each page explain a little bit about your life. it is arranged by THEME. USING PICTURES. the whole book ultimately is still about your life and work and impact as Doctor - but all the other things are in there too.

AND we saw - pictures in the book where you don't appear, but we know they are in there because the book is about you.

AND we saw - your parents (history) - your children (some future) - your friends (which reflect on you as a person) - other people places and things in your life. we already know all this about you because we have already seen and heard everything about you (from the OTHER PRINTED BOOKS about you, from which this scrapbook was inspired and compiled).

but not every page has every image in chronological sequence - how can it, when you are using pictures to tell the same story, using different themes? there's nothing new in it, it's just a different arrangement of PICTURES.

AND we saw - always some indication you always wanted to be a Doctor. at 5 years old you had a toy stethoscope. we turn the pages and see the progression and impact of your life - primarily noticing that you were meant to be a Doctor - it's inescapable.

AND we saw - you were well known in the community, especially for your morality and good standing. we see pictures of your awards and ceremonies. we see your clinic, newspaper clippings. we had read about this before. now we see it in pictures.

AND we saw - in one section of newspaper clippings that you had social activists attacking your clinic because they hated you - you refused to do illegal and immoral things. quite a big to-do - police and the press - sadly we see innocent people died in the attack on your clinic - and many suffered injuries. but you were there to render aid. you never stopped being a Doctor. and your patients never stopped coming. you were not afraid and and protected everyone - the paper called you a hero.

AND we saw - the bad guys were caught and sent to prison for life, and died there. but you carried on saving lives and caring for people. the attack came to nothing ultimately because you - the Doctor saved more lives and delivered more babies because your clinic survived.

this doesn't surprise us, because we looked through the scrapbook already and saw you were destined for it. you had been that way since a child. we saw it already, in the previous pages of the scrapbook - and in the other printed books about you - which the scrapbook is summarizing, IN PICTURES.

...

FINALLY:

in the last section of the scrapbook (section 20) someone decided to make a collage, because they know the book is ending and they want a summary of all that came before.

the collage only contains copies and fragments of things we already saw on earlier pages - nothing new is added - but this combination gives us a glimpse into you the Doctor we hadn't seen before in quite this way - there are no baby pictures of you here - or high school photos - or stories of your football team. this is about the established virtuous and victorious Doctor prevailing with his patients.

SECTION 20:

AND we saw - you with your patients - the thousands of babies you delivered, the thousands of old people you treated, cards from and photos of all the grateful survivors of the attack.

AND we saw - in the corner of this collage a small copy of the same bombed clinic we already saw.

AND we saw - the bad guys again, and the clipping again, saying they had been sent to prison.

AND we saw - the story again that they had died in prison.

AND we saw - again all the images we already saw - that you and your patients and the community had overcome the bad guys attack, and you all carried on forever, and ever.

the end

...

so, because the collage in section 20 at the end of the book of pictures tells the same story we read about in the printed books....do we mean to say you had to have your clinic bombed twice? just because we already SAW it once in pictures, and had already read about it BEFORE ALL THAT in the printed books?

LOL.

Abiding · Sep 12, 2013

ok now listen son...no more foul balls...i know
shes fast...but come on, at least let her walk you,
if ya aint got at least a base hit in ya

BradC · Sep 12, 2013

zone said:

Is this really your response to why Satan is bound now and not able to deceive the nations because of the finished work? Yet, after he is loosed he is able and restored with the ability to go out and deceive the nations making the finished work and the blood of Christ of no effect. Did Almighty God loosen Satan and give him the ability to overcome the blood of the Lamb and deceive the nations once again stopping the gospel from being preached?

Rev 20:7,8 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

I will say this speaking of the past and present. There has been a great number of sinners among the nations who have been saved through the preaching of the gospel these past 2,000 + years but at the same time Christ and the gospel is not exactly reigning on the earth among those nations and deception from the god of this world plays a major role in blinding the minds of those who have not believed in 2 Cor 4:3,4. Are you going to tell us with absolute certainty that Satan is not presently the god of this world and its system and because he has been bound by the finished work that he is not able to deceive and blind the minds of the unbelieving? According to you, to deceive the nations is to prevent the gospel from entering in and unto the people of that nation of which Satan has been bound from doing. But deceiving the nations must also include the ability of blinding the mind of unbelievers from receiving the gospel. Perhaps the ones Satan deceived before he was bound at the cross and Christ's resurrection can fit into your theology, but certainly those who were born and lived in unbelief after the resurrection these past 2,000 years were not blinded by Satan because he was all bound up according to your theology. Where does all this fit into your scrapbook and summary of word pictures?

When Satan blinds the mind, he dulls and blunts the intellect (or mind) with smoke screens of darkness so that the light of the gospel can not enter in. He initiates the action as a matter of fact and it is ongoing and continuous. I have met many people on the streets and other locations that when presenting them the gospel they are so dull of hearing what you are saying and very blunt in their response to it. They give no place for the light of the gospel to enter into their mind or heart and it is because of darkness that has obstructed their mind and heart from receiving the truth. I live in a nation that according to you Satan has been bound from deceiving and blinding the minds of the people. So what makes these people so dull and so into the darkness of this world that they reject the light of the gospel? Is it just the flesh and sin bound up in them or is there an outside source that contributes to them being hindered and blinded from the light of the gospel?

eternally-gratefull · Sep 12, 2013

Hoffco said:

dude you have to study more.. Almost nothing you said here is correct.

If you want people to listen to you. You should at least try to get more than a few things right.

zone · Sep 12, 2013

BradC said:

that's your junk. keep it.
i've never uttered that heresy.

BradC · Sep 12, 2013

zone said:

Never said you uttered such a thing, but Satan is loosed again to deceive the nations and how does that happen if the finished work and the blood of Christ is still in effect? Just a simple and reasonable question that you seem to have a problem with. You are the one, as an amillennialist who established the premise of the finished work as binding the strong man from deceiving the nations so that the gospel could be preached in all the world. This is one of the reasons that Satan has not been bound yet but will be for a future 1,000 years so that Christ (and his bride) can reign on earth in his kingdom with the nations judged and with a restored Israel.

Hoffco · Sep 12, 2013

MY FRIENDS, no need to argue, just state you position a little clearer and/or again and the wise will learn ,the rest, we can not help, if they don't "have ears to hear". /even those who have are saved, have "ears to hear" , are very messed up. I was so messed up my first yr. in Bible collee, I had to change my theo. by my 3rd. yr. After 8 yrs of bible colleges and 52 yr being saved, pastoring,; I don't change much any more. Love to all, Hoffco

zone · Sep 12, 2013

Hoffco said:

FIRST COMING -----salvation (figuratively called a thousand years) ----> SECOND COMING

simple.

Proof of a Future Millennial Kingdom

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