Prophets, Prophecy, and the Prophetic
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Dan, as I read what you've written above, the only thing that comes to mind is the instance where Martha complained about doing all the work while Mary just sat listening to Jesus and Jesus replied to her, "Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things. But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part which will not be taken away from her" (Lk. 10:41-42).
You are asking, "Why do we need..." You are saying to prophesy just means "to speak under inspiration"; you said, "Christ told us all things" when He made it clear that He did not (but that the Holy Spirit would); you asked, "What's left to prophesy about?" (Any unbeliever or atheist can ask you similar questions that you cannot answer: "How could an immortal God die? We heard that angels can procreate with human women, but how can God have a Son without a wife? Why would God want to die for humans? How could Jesus, a man, perform supernatural miracles? Why did Jesus claim to be God if He was His Son? Etc." I hope you see by these 'unanswerable questions' that this thing has nothing to do with doubt but faith which is simply believing what God has said.)
After stating your reasons, I suppose, for doubting the miraculous for now, you then make a statement that, apparently unknown to you, supports the supernatural and miraculous for today: "The world is blind to what's written... but those with eyes to see know to watch." That statement is overflowing with evidence against your beliefs-- too many for me to try to get into. I will just mention the most apparent: "eyes to see" (or "ears to hear") in the Bible always talks about spiritual eyes; that means that in order to see or know or hear anything about God or God's times and ways, etc., it requires supernatural sight, hearing, perception, understanding. In asking questions that have to do with your own reasoning (because nowhere in the Bible does it hint that the supernatural or prophecy would ever pass away) and not biblical truth, you make it impossible for yourself to see what the Bible is saying.
You talk about spiritual eyes (without knowing it I may add again), but you are not showing that your spiritual eyes are open, giving you the ability to "know what to watch for". God's Word nullifies all our reasonings, learnings, etc., to the point that even when we don't believe, we still believe. There are atheists who hate God but don't believe in Him. Can you hate something that doesn't exist? You say prophecy is no longer needed, but then you say that Christians have "eyes to see" which is prophetic sight or insight. Incredible if it wasn't credible. You have proven that even those who don't believe believe; and it must be so, because God has made His ways apparent to even the blind, and the He has made His will apparent and not hidden so that we can obey Him: "The Word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may obey it" (Deut. 30:14, Rom. 10:8). Why has God does this thing? Why has He put the knowledge of Himself in both unbeliever and believer? When He gives us a new heart, it is alive to Him even if we aren't.
We can live carnal-minded (our own reasoning) but still have a re-born spirit. (1Cor. 2.) If we live in the carnal mind, we miss what our spirits know. If you say, "I don't believe that the spiritual gifts are for today" but your spirit says, "I believe", then your spirit is re-born but you are not walking in the Spirit (or living from the spirit). I heard John MacArthur-- famous disbeliever in the relevance of certain spiritual gifts for today-- preach a sermon about apostles. Though he doesn't believe that apostles are for today, his spirit throughout the message acknowledged that they are for today. How do you make sense of this? Simple: the person whose spirit is born of the Spirit but who disbelieves that the [work of the Spirit is for today] does so with his carnal mind; but his spirit believes just what the Bible says, because the Holy Spirit bears witness to their spirit of every jot and tittle of truth (but they must live in the spirit if their spirit will bear witness to their minds/souls/carnal nature of the truth). There are born again Christians who don't believe in spiritual things because they live from their carnal minds, and everything for them follows reason rather than faith. Don't be concerned with "too many things" and all the reasons that 'such things can't be'. If you sit before Jesus, like Mary, and let the carnal reasoning mind (Martha) take a backseat, the Holy Spirit will surface from your spirit what is true and what is false, and you will have no need to trust or depend on your own ability to reason or figure things out:
"You have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it... The anointing (the Holy Spirit) which you have received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him" (1Jn. 2:20, 27).
You are asking, "Why do we need..." You are saying to prophesy just means "to speak under inspiration"; you said, "Christ told us all things" when He made it clear that He did not (but that the Holy Spirit would); you asked, "What's left to prophesy about?" (Any unbeliever or atheist can ask you similar questions that you cannot answer: "How could an immortal God die? We heard that angels can procreate with human women, but how can God have a Son without a wife? Why would God want to die for humans? How could Jesus, a man, perform supernatural miracles? Why did Jesus claim to be God if He was His Son? Etc." I hope you see by these 'unanswerable questions' that this thing has nothing to do with doubt but faith which is simply believing what God has said.)
After stating your reasons, I suppose, for doubting the miraculous for now, you then make a statement that, apparently unknown to you, supports the supernatural and miraculous for today: "The world is blind to what's written... but those with eyes to see know to watch." That statement is overflowing with evidence against your beliefs-- too many for me to try to get into. I will just mention the most apparent: "eyes to see" (or "ears to hear") in the Bible always talks about spiritual eyes; that means that in order to see or know or hear anything about God or God's times and ways, etc., it requires supernatural sight, hearing, perception, understanding. In asking questions that have to do with your own reasoning (because nowhere in the Bible does it hint that the supernatural or prophecy would ever pass away) and not biblical truth, you make it impossible for yourself to see what the Bible is saying.
You talk about spiritual eyes (without knowing it I may add again), but you are not showing that your spiritual eyes are open, giving you the ability to "know what to watch for". God's Word nullifies all our reasonings, learnings, etc., to the point that even when we don't believe, we still believe. There are atheists who hate God but don't believe in Him. Can you hate something that doesn't exist? You say prophecy is no longer needed, but then you say that Christians have "eyes to see" which is prophetic sight or insight. Incredible if it wasn't credible. You have proven that even those who don't believe believe; and it must be so, because God has made His ways apparent to even the blind, and the He has made His will apparent and not hidden so that we can obey Him: "The Word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may obey it" (Deut. 30:14, Rom. 10:8). Why has God does this thing? Why has He put the knowledge of Himself in both unbeliever and believer? When He gives us a new heart, it is alive to Him even if we aren't.
We can live carnal-minded (our own reasoning) but still have a re-born spirit. (1Cor. 2.) If we live in the carnal mind, we miss what our spirits know. If you say, "I don't believe that the spiritual gifts are for today" but your spirit says, "I believe", then your spirit is re-born but you are not walking in the Spirit (or living from the spirit). I heard John MacArthur-- famous disbeliever in the relevance of certain spiritual gifts for today-- preach a sermon about apostles. Though he doesn't believe that apostles are for today, his spirit throughout the message acknowledged that they are for today. How do you make sense of this? Simple: the person whose spirit is born of the Spirit but who disbelieves that the [work of the Spirit is for today] does so with his carnal mind; but his spirit believes just what the Bible says, because the Holy Spirit bears witness to their spirit of every jot and tittle of truth (but they must live in the spirit if their spirit will bear witness to their minds/souls/carnal nature of the truth). There are born again Christians who don't believe in spiritual things because they live from their carnal minds, and everything for them follows reason rather than faith. Don't be concerned with "too many things" and all the reasons that 'such things can't be'. If you sit before Jesus, like Mary, and let the carnal reasoning mind (Martha) take a backseat, the Holy Spirit will surface from your spirit what is true and what is false, and you will have no need to trust or depend on your own ability to reason or figure things out:
"You have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it... The anointing (the Holy Spirit) which you have received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him" (1Jn. 2:20, 27).
I never meant to suggest that prophecy was no longer needed, only that modern prophets don't exist any more than modern day apostles do. Prophecy exist in the sense that we have the recorded prophesies via Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc, and I believe we have inspired teachers who explain these prophesies. But Jesus foretold all future events through the end of time, thus my comment, what's left to disclose? This does not forgo the necessity of the Holy Spirit which gives us ears to hear and understand, it just caps additional prophetic revelation to what's written. New visions confuse what the bible ended with a period (Revelation 22;18). jmo
Firstly, please define what you mean when you say the words 'prophet, prophecy, and prophesy'. If your words are not defined, then reaching a proper conclusion isn't possible. There are different types of prophets, prophecies, and prophesying in the Bible, so it is necessary that I know what you mean when you use those words. I will take separate things you said and ask you to please explain from the Bible:
1. "Modern prophets don't exist any more than modern day apostles do." Please show me where you get this in the Bible.
2. "Prophecies exist in the sense that we have the recorded prophesies..." Please show me where you get this in the Bible.
3. "I believe we have inspired teachers who explain these prophecies." Please show me from the Bible and from our day where this is true.
4. "Jesus foretold all future events through the end of time." Please show me where you get this in the Bible.
5. "What's left to disclose ('what is the need for the prophetic')?" Please show me where the Bible says that nothing is left to be disclosed/revealed-- that nothing remains hidden.
6. "The Holy Spirit... gives us ears to hear and understand." What does the Bible say that the work of the Holy Spirit would be for believers, and what how does the Bible define "ears to hear".
7. "It just caps additional prophetic revelation to what's written." What exactly do you mean by the word "revelation", and where in the Bible does it ever say the Canon would ever be 'completed'.
8. "New visions confuse what the Bible ended with a period." Please show me where the Bible says that visions and dreams and revelation and prophecy and gifts of the Spirit and the supernatural manifestations and operations of the Spirit would cease when 'a Book called the Bible' was finished.
You misapplied Rev. 22:18 and only quoted half of what Jesus said there (which is, in all truth, an insight into what you are doing to the whole Word of God and God Himself: take half, leave half); here is the rest of what He said: "If anyone takes away from the words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this Book" (Rev. 22:19). You are deleting things that God's Word never deleted, making His Word of no effect due to your tradition (cultural beliefs). You can't hide behind 'jmo' or expect God to wink at your 'innocent opinions' and 'goodwill'. It is important for all Christians to come to grips with this eternal and final truth: God is looking at your heart (not your beliefs and opinions and the ever-present 'Christian goodwill' by which many Christians will try to buy entrance into eternal Life but will fail-- Matt. 7:21-23), and you better look at it too, because the Bible says that if we judge ourselves (if we are fair and not biased with our own nature and sins and rebellion, excusing ourselves while we accuse and condemn others), then God will not have to judge us. But if we let the good we and others think of ourselves deceive us into thinking we are 'good people' and will swing low, sweet chariot' into Heaven while disregarding God's Word by which we are judged, then we are fooled (Matt. 7:21-23) and we are asking for a real surprise with eternal implications. (Again, Matt. 7:21-23.) "If Christians don't live expressly according to what the Bible says, how then should we live?"
"Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine and does them, I will liken to a wise man who built his house on the rock... But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand" (Matt. 7:24-27).
1. "Modern prophets don't exist any more than modern day apostles do." Please show me where you get this in the Bible.
2. "Prophecies exist in the sense that we have the recorded prophesies..." Please show me where you get this in the Bible.
3. "I believe we have inspired teachers who explain these prophecies." Please show me from the Bible and from our day where this is true.
4. "Jesus foretold all future events through the end of time." Please show me where you get this in the Bible.
5. "What's left to disclose ('what is the need for the prophetic')?" Please show me where the Bible says that nothing is left to be disclosed/revealed-- that nothing remains hidden.
6. "The Holy Spirit... gives us ears to hear and understand." What does the Bible say that the work of the Holy Spirit would be for believers, and what how does the Bible define "ears to hear".
7. "It just caps additional prophetic revelation to what's written." What exactly do you mean by the word "revelation", and where in the Bible does it ever say the Canon would ever be 'completed'.
8. "New visions confuse what the Bible ended with a period." Please show me where the Bible says that visions and dreams and revelation and prophecy and gifts of the Spirit and the supernatural manifestations and operations of the Spirit would cease when 'a Book called the Bible' was finished.
You misapplied Rev. 22:18 and only quoted half of what Jesus said there (which is, in all truth, an insight into what you are doing to the whole Word of God and God Himself: take half, leave half); here is the rest of what He said: "If anyone takes away from the words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this Book" (Rev. 22:19). You are deleting things that God's Word never deleted, making His Word of no effect due to your tradition (cultural beliefs). You can't hide behind 'jmo' or expect God to wink at your 'innocent opinions' and 'goodwill'. It is important for all Christians to come to grips with this eternal and final truth: God is looking at your heart (not your beliefs and opinions and the ever-present 'Christian goodwill' by which many Christians will try to buy entrance into eternal Life but will fail-- Matt. 7:21-23), and you better look at it too, because the Bible says that if we judge ourselves (if we are fair and not biased with our own nature and sins and rebellion, excusing ourselves while we accuse and condemn others), then God will not have to judge us. But if we let the good we and others think of ourselves deceive us into thinking we are 'good people' and will swing low, sweet chariot' into Heaven while disregarding God's Word by which we are judged, then we are fooled (Matt. 7:21-23) and we are asking for a real surprise with eternal implications. (Again, Matt. 7:21-23.) "If Christians don't live expressly according to what the Bible says, how then should we live?"
"Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine and does them, I will liken to a wise man who built his house on the rock... But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand" (Matt. 7:24-27).
I got one of those too, but I'm not going to try to test it. What about this recent one:
"All the judgments coming on the USA have been delayed as long as possible. There will be no more delay. All three prophets were told this. Bro. Sadhu was told in an encounter: 1) The US has been sinking deeper and deeper into a sinkhole of iniquity. 2) Military force will be used by God to chasten the nation.
The prophets have seen the collapse of the dollar. In a face-to-face encounter with the Lord Jesus: A Military coup ousting O* in order to try to steer our nation back on the right track. O* being put on trial for treason. O* playing the race card, resulting in racial riots (Hispanic, Black, White, all races). The Lord said: It will not go well with O*. Civil unrest all over the nation will follow.
Sadhu was told in a supernatural encounter: "The nation’s hypocrisy will be torn apart. O* will be punished. The W H will burn with fire."
Except for specific dates, the above word is pretty gutsy and says direct things about the president, the white house, and the American people.
"All the judgments coming on the USA have been delayed as long as possible. There will be no more delay. All three prophets were told this. Bro. Sadhu was told in an encounter: 1) The US has been sinking deeper and deeper into a sinkhole of iniquity. 2) Military force will be used by God to chasten the nation.
The prophets have seen the collapse of the dollar. In a face-to-face encounter with the Lord Jesus: A Military coup ousting O* in order to try to steer our nation back on the right track. O* being put on trial for treason. O* playing the race card, resulting in racial riots (Hispanic, Black, White, all races). The Lord said: It will not go well with O*. Civil unrest all over the nation will follow.
Sadhu was told in a supernatural encounter: "The nation’s hypocrisy will be torn apart. O* will be punished. The W H will burn with fire."
Except for specific dates, the above word is pretty gutsy and says direct things about the president, the white house, and the American people.