prosperity teachers versus the NT.

[Scotth1960]

Dear friends, What do you make of the teachings of prosperity teachers on TV networks like TBN? Creflo A. Dollar, Kenneth Copeland, T.D. Jakes, Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, John Hagee, and so on?
Here is what the NT (New Testament says): "These things be teaching and exhorting. If anyone teach differently and draw not near to sound words -- those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching according to piety -- he hath been puffed up with pride, knowing nothing, but is sick concerning questions and disputes about words, of of which cometh envy, strife, blasphemies, evil suspicions, wasting time with wearing disputations of people who have been corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth, supposing piety to be a means of gain. Be withdrawing from such. But piety with sufficiency is a great means of gain. For we brought nothing into the word, and it is manifest that neither are we able to carry anything out; but having sustenance and coverings, we shall be satisfied with these. Now they who wish to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires, which sink men into destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all evils, by which some, reaching out for themselves, were led astray from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
"But thou, O man of God, be fleeing these things; and be pursuing righteousness, piety, faith, love, patience, meekness. Keep on fighting the good fight of the faith. Be laying hold of eternal life, to which thou wast also called, and didst confess the good confession before many witnesses. I enjoin thee before God Who maketh alive all things, and Christ Jesus Who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that thou keep the commandment spotless, irreproachable, until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ, ...."
1 Timothy 6:2-14 ONT Orthodox New Testament, Vol. 2, pp. 353-354. q.v.


God bless us, everyone; AMEN. In Erie PA / Scott R. Harrington

 

[jamest48]

well scott,I think you are taking alot of scripture out of context and you should be ashamed of yourself for passing judgement upon these people.Didn't the LORD say to not touch His elect.As far as prosperity,wasn't Abraham rich,and David and Solomon.I am rich but not as you suppose richness,I am rich in Jesus Christ my LORD and brother,that makes me richer than any bank acunt can provide.You fail to understand that if one gives to the LORD with the right heart they will not lose their reward.Besides,prosperity comes in many forms,relationships,bibical wisdom,a closer walk with God,it comes in many ways,not just money or things.Please do not get offended,I pray that God richly blesses you,AMEN

 

[Scotth1960]

well scott,I think you are taking alot of scripture out of context and you should be ashamed of yourself for passing judgement upon these people.Didn't the LORD say to not touch His elect.As far as prosperity,wasn't Abraham rich,and David and Solomon.I am rich but not as you suppose richness,I am rich in Jesus Christ my LORD and brother,that makes me richer than any bank acunt can provide.You fail to understand that if one gives to the LORD with the right heart they will not lose their reward.Besides,prosperity comes in many forms,relationships,bibical wisdom,a closer walk with God,it comes in many ways,not just money or things.Please do not get offended,I pray that God richly blesses you,AMEN

Nowhere does the Bible say, "Don't have discernment." Somewhere does the Bible say, "There shall be false prophets among you ....". But the point remains: Real prosperity is spiritual, not financial. People who want to have a lot of money ignore this verse. A person can't use the Bible to justify greed. The NT: Keep yourselves from the love of money. Love not the world, nor the things in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. Take care. PS I am not judging these people. That's God's job. I just don't agree with their ministry teaching, and I am under no obligation to endorse every wind of doctrine that comes out of every person who ministers in the name of Christ. Preachers are particularly accountable if they teach their sheep false doctrines and make lots of money off of poor people. These men promise great things to people who give to them, and don't care who they rob of their money. Many people who have little or nothing give to them in hope of a better life. And it's just sad, and it's wrong, perverted, and shameful. What these greedy televangelists do. St. Peter and St. Paul didn't charge a penny to preach the Gospel. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear friends, What do you make of the teachings of prosperity teachers on TV networks like TBN? Creflo A. Dollar, Kenneth Copeland, T.D. Jakes, Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, John Hagee, and so on?
Here is what the NT (New Testament says): "These things be teaching and exhorting. If anyone teach differently and draw not near to sound words -- those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching according to piety -- he hath been puffed up with pride, knowing nothing, but is sick concerning questions and disputes about words, of of which cometh envy, strife, blasphemies, evil suspicions, wasting time with wearing disputations of people who have been corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth, supposing piety to be a means of gain. Be withdrawing from such. But piety with sufficiency is a great means of gain. For we brought nothing into the word, and it is manifest that neither are we able to carry anything out; but having sustenance and coverings, we shall be satisfied with these. Now they who wish to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires, which sink men into destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all evils, by which some, reaching out for themselves, were led astray from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
"But thou, O man of God, be fleeing these things; and be pursuing righteousness, piety, faith, love, patience, meekness. Keep on fighting the good fight of the faith. Be laying hold of eternal life, to which thou wast also called, and didst confess the good confession before many witnesses. I enjoin thee before God Who maketh alive all things, and Christ Jesus Who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that thou keep the commandment spotless, irreproachable, until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ, ...."
1 Timothy 6:2-14 ONT Orthodox New Testament, Vol. 2, pp. 353-354. q.v.


God bless us, everyone; AMEN. In Erie PA / Scott R. Harrington

I believe prosparity teachers are false teachers. I have one in my town that says if you give a certain amount of money you will have X amount of prayers answered. He has a mansion drives expensive cars, and has already been contacted by the atate for fraud (I hope they get him)

Men like this do not lead people to the Lord, They try to make people pay for a ticket to heaven!

 

[Scotth1960]

well scott,I think you are taking alot of scripture out of context and you should be ashamed of yourself for passing judgement upon these people.Didn't the LORD say to not touch His elect.As far as prosperity,wasn't Abraham rich,and David and Solomon.I am rich but not as you suppose richness,I am rich in Jesus Christ my LORD and brother,that makes me richer than any bank acunt can provide.You fail to understand that if one gives to the LORD with the right heart they will not lose their reward.Besides,prosperity comes in many forms,relationships,bibical wisdom,a closer walk with God,it comes in many ways,not just money or things.Please do not get offended,I pray that God richly blesses you,AMEN

I get your point. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with being rich. But making a lot of money from a Gospel ministry doesn't seem right. Especially when a man is justified by Christ's blood, and not by riches. I think the way these tv preachers ask for money is wrong. And their doctrines are often questionable. 1 Timothy 6:17-18 ... etc. "Be commanding the rich in the present age not to be high-minded, nor to have hope in the uncertainty of riches but in the living God, Who granteth us richly all things for enjoyment; be commanding them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be ready to impart, to be sociable ... etc. ONT

People have a right to judge for themselves whether or not they will support a gospel ministry. If a man has integrity, like Billy Graham and Franklin Graham do, they will really prosper. The message that the Graham's have preached over the years and their way of doing things has been mostly honorable and good. Therefore, it depends on which preachers you are talking about. They are known by their fruit.
Take care. In Erie / Scott R. Harrington

 

[Consumed]

a well known american pastor did a crusade here in Australia few years back at the Gold Coast Convention Centre, said if you come for healing show God how much you want it by how much your willing to give money, your healing is tied to the amount you give. That was my que to leave. I cannot see God placing such a stipulation.
at another meeting conveyed by a group of churches for another well known american tele evangelist said that God told him that everyone there had to give 1000$ea to his ministry for God to bless them, that was my que again
nothing wrong having money, alot wrong when some try to coerce it from you saying God wants your money to free you. Lord have mercy

 

[dmdave17]

First, let me say that I believe that Christian "history" is full of testimonies of believers who have stepped out in faith and given their last dollar (figuratively speaking), and been richly rewarded from unexpected sources. So I don't think we can totally discount the notion. I think the problem becomes when there is a cause and effect relationship attached. Somewhere in the Bible (don't ask me to cite the source) it says "God loves a cheerful giver". I believe that someone who willingly "gives till it hurts" probably has a better chance of receiving God's blessing than someone who makes excuses not to give (can't afford it, not really needed, etc.).

So, I believe we need to be careful not to misconstrue what these preachers are saying. If they are saying "Giving increases your chances of being blessed.", I really don't think that is wrong, and may in fact be provable. If they are saying "To receive blessing 'A', you must give gift 'B'.", that is totally wrong.

Also, I don't think we should "throw out the baby with the bath water" (excuse the cliche'). Incorrect teaching in one area, in my opinion, does not necessarily negate their entire message.

 

[VRJ]

Todays prosperity ministers ask for what is termed "seed money." First, they are incorporated 501 (c)3 and bow to the government as most churches today. Prosperity ministers got their start with the late E.W. Kenyon who died in 1948. That would be a good study for anyone with time on their hands as well as how the 501 (c) 3 came into existence.

Tithing was established during Israel's time to take care of the Levites but even the Levites tithed. The new Testament does not require tithing but free will giving under the new Covenant and no specific amount was mentioned. Melchizedek is mentioned but one has to remember that Abram gave him a tenth but it was property that did not belong to him. It was captured goods. Genesis 14:16. The spoils of war. Tithing does not become a command until Moses time.
They were also doing animal sacrifice for sin offerings, guilt offerings, etc. Should we still be doing tithing but not animal sacrifice? The law of Moses was a unit that could not be divided. We either keep the law or seperate from all of it and keep the new covenant.

Tithing was practiced in Israel during Jesus day but because Israel was under the law. Matthew 23:23 Jesus rebuked the religious leaders for they neglected the mercy and faith but paid more to the law. Paul says in I Cor. 16:1,2 the collection for the saints. This is not a weekly tithe but appears to be a collection for others in need.

No Apostle ever instructed anyone to sow a seed to wait for a hundredfold harvest to come in. We are to give to God's work but to give freely as we choose.

Deuteronomy 23:6; "Thou shalt not seek their peace nor their prosperity all thy days for ever"

Job 15:21; "A dreadful sound is in his ears: in prosperity the destroyer shall come upon him."

Psalms 73:3; " For I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked."

Proverbs 1:32; "For the turning away of the simple shall slay them and the porsperity of fools shall destroy them."

Matthew 12:34; "For out of the abundence of the heart the mouth speaketh."

Ezekiel 22:25,27,28; "There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof. (27) Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy soul, to get dishonest gain. (28) And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken."

Joel 3:5,7 "Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things: (7) Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own heads."

Israel in the Old Testament brought in the pagan beliefs of the Zidonions.
I Kings 11:5; II Kings 23:13 and Judges 10:6; 18:7 The Zidonions worshiped many gods...which to take provision, to catch, to sacrifice...they were merchants (Isaiah 23:2)
We have come full circle.

 

[trust_in_the_name]

I think the scriptures speak for themselves.

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber. 4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)-- 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord. 12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet. 17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. 18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire." (2 Peter 2)

1 The elders who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed: 2 Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; (1 Peter 5:1-2)

17 For we are not, as so many, peddling the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ. (2 Corinthians 2:17)

5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. (Ephesians 5:5)

13 No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." (Luke 16:13)

 

[Consumed]

we have all heard the scripture used "give and it will be given ,,,,,,,," but rarely do they follow up the verse there after that says "give expecting nothing in return and then you will be like your Father in heaven....."

 

[francina]

Somewhere in the Bible (don't ask me to cite the source) it says "God loves a cheerful giver".
I believe this is the scripture in Corinthians which is speaking of taking up an offering for those who are in need & who belong to the church, in Jerusalem. Most scriptures on giving in the New Testament is about helping those brothers & sisters in Christ who have a need. Church leaders were to give all their time to instruction in the Word & spreading the gospel & their 'needs' were to be taken care of as well. I am not saying I am against them having more than their needs but the opulence is a idolatrous.
I have given money & have been blessed but I was led to give. I have also given & nothing came of it, not obvious to me anyway. I've asked
God for things & gave no money for months & had my prayers answered more often. This method of using scriptures that speak of events in the life of Solomon & others & trying to use them as foundational principles that will work for all of us if we copy what they did & have enough faith is twisting scripture. I am not leading a nation & collecting money from my subjects or being used to store up provisions for descendants who will become a nation. More importantly, God did not speak to me as He did to each one of them & say, 'such & such will be given to you'. Spend time with God , listen to Him, what He says to you concerning the personal direction of your life, have faith for that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Somewhere in the Bible (don't ask me to cite the source) it says "God loves a cheerful giver".
I believe this is the scripture in Corinthians which is speaking of taking up an offering for those who are in need & who belong to the church, in Jerusalem. Most scriptures on giving in the New Testament is about helping those brothers & sisters in Christ who have a need. Church leaders were to give all their time to instruction in the Word & spreading the gospel & their 'needs' were to be taken care of as well. I am not saying I am against them having more than their needs but the opulence is a idolatrous.
I have given money & have been blessed but I was led to give. I have also given & nothing came of it, not obvious to me anyway. I've asked
God for things & gave no money for months & had my prayers answered more often. This method of using scriptures that speak of events in the life of Solomon & others & trying to use them as foundational principles that will work for all of us if we copy what they did & have enough faith is twisting scripture. I am not leading a nation & collecting money from my subjects or being used to store up provisions for descendants who will become a nation. More importantly, God did not speak to me as He did to each one of them & say, 'such & such will be given to you'. Spend time with God , listen to Him, what He says to you concerning the personal direction of your life, have faith for that.

Yes, But a cheerful giver will give no matter what, And expects nothing in return.

These people are demanding everyone give, and trying to exploiut them by making promises apart from Gods word.

My church does not ask any new people for money, In fact We give them a free gift for coming instead. (one of two excellent books which are geared toward new or non believers) in fact we tell everyone, unless you consider us your home, we do not ask you to give. God has still provided above and beyond what we need every years. which allows us to take on new ministries every year.