Prov.17:15, what does it mean to you?
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E
I use this scripture in evangelism. If God justifies wicked men (and He does), is God an abomination to Himself? How is it that God can justify wicked men and not violate this text? These are some of the questions I ask folks before showing them how God is the justifier of the wicked and still remains just. Before I present this though, I show them how bad they really are. I show them how their wickedness permeates ever fiber of their being and their true need for a Saviour. And it is through this Saviour that God can justify wicked men and still be just. Sin HAS to be punished! God is not gonna just pass over our sin! Someone has to die, not bulls or goats like in times past, but it has to be a man! That man was Christ. God gave him over to be the punishment for the sin of His people.
That's the short (very short) form of how I use that scripture.
Eddie
That's the short (very short) form of how I use that scripture.
Eddie
H
Prov 17:15
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.
Isa 5:23
Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
Mic 3:11
The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money:
Who are these who justify the wicked for reward and condemn the just?
It refers to those under the old covenant works of the law for righteousness. They suppress the truth of the gospel, in unrighteousness. They will not submit to God's righteousness and they try to deceive others into following their path of unrighteousness/being perfected by the flesh. They follow the ministry of condemnation/death, 2Cor 3:7.
Rom 1:18-19
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth (of the gospel) in unrighteousness (rebellion against God seeking to establish their own righteousness), because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.
Isa 5:23
Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
Mic 3:11
The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money:
Who are these who justify the wicked for reward and condemn the just?
It refers to those under the old covenant works of the law for righteousness. They suppress the truth of the gospel, in unrighteousness. They will not submit to God's righteousness and they try to deceive others into following their path of unrighteousness/being perfected by the flesh. They follow the ministry of condemnation/death, 2Cor 3:7.
Rom 1:18-19
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth (of the gospel) in unrighteousness (rebellion against God seeking to establish their own righteousness), because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
Reality Example: people who call themselves Christians and protest for stays of executions for, rapists, pre-meditated murderers and child abusers; GOD, Get Over Death ALMIGHTY, The Father, IS, the same yesterday, as HE will be today and as HE will be tomorrow and FOREVER.
30-30-150 remembers a raw deal, and 30-30-150 HATES a raw deal.
Stone Sour (for those who love parables of Reality)
30-30-150 remembers a raw deal, and 30-30-150 HATES a raw deal.
Stone Sour (for those who love parables of Reality)
A
Let me get this straight. You tell them that God justifies wicked people? I think your not making yourself clear. Your saying God justifies a wicked person and that His justification makes their wickedness okay? or that the wicked can stay wicked and keep on being wicked or even if they stay or are still wicked are "justified? Or are you trying to say God can changed the wicked by His mercy and forgiveness and they become just?
I used this verse earlier so I think I can give it a response as well...
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Rom 4:5)
The term 'ungodly' ἀσεβής (asebēs) can also according to Strongs be translated 'impious', 'wicked', or 'irreverent'.
The gist of Rom 4:5 deals with justification through faith, i.e. a wicked or ungodly person upon believing the Good News that Christ Jesus has borne the penalty for their sins...that person God DECLARES (justifies) righteous.
Ok from that point the person receives the Holy Spirit (Gal 3:2)and God commences the cleaning process (sanctification).
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Rom 4:5)
The term 'ungodly' ἀσεβής (asebēs) can also according to Strongs be translated 'impious', 'wicked', or 'irreverent'.
The gist of Rom 4:5 deals with justification through faith, i.e. a wicked or ungodly person upon believing the Good News that Christ Jesus has borne the penalty for their sins...that person God DECLARES (justifies) righteous.
Ok from that point the person receives the Holy Spirit (Gal 3:2)and God commences the cleaning process (sanctification).
E
Sorry, I was just replying how I use the Proverb text mentioned, without going into great detail. After going back and reading my post, I can see how I muddied the water a bit. I don't want to get off base and make this thread about something that it wasn't meant to be, but I feel I must clarify what I posted.
I wasn't saying that His justification makes their wickedness okay. I'm saying their wickedness HAS to be punished. Someone has to face the wrath of God for their wickedness. I certainly wasn't saying the wicked, once justified, can go on being wicked. Justification is the first part of our salvation. The evidence of our justification is that we are going through a sanctification process. Justification is always first. When God declares us just (right with Him), it is settled, done. That can't be changed. The evidence that God has declared us just is that He begins to work in our lives, conforming us to the image of His Son (sanctification). If He is not working in our lives, constantly changing us, transforming us, then we have no assurance that we have been justified. Again, this is a short version of how I use the Proverbs passage in evangelism. Hope I made it clearer. If not, maybe we can continue in a new thread. Sorry for the confusion.
Eddie
I wasn't saying that His justification makes their wickedness okay. I'm saying their wickedness HAS to be punished. Someone has to face the wrath of God for their wickedness. I certainly wasn't saying the wicked, once justified, can go on being wicked. Justification is the first part of our salvation. The evidence of our justification is that we are going through a sanctification process. Justification is always first. When God declares us just (right with Him), it is settled, done. That can't be changed. The evidence that God has declared us just is that He begins to work in our lives, conforming us to the image of His Son (sanctification). If He is not working in our lives, constantly changing us, transforming us, then we have no assurance that we have been justified. Again, this is a short version of how I use the Proverbs passage in evangelism. Hope I made it clearer. If not, maybe we can continue in a new thread. Sorry for the confusion.
Eddie
so Tribesman, what do you think about Saint Martin, Saint Augustine, Saint Patrick, Saint Benedict, Saint Dominic, Saint Catherine of Sienna, Saint Theresa of Avila, Saint Therese of Lisieux, Saint Gregory the Great, Saint Ignatius, Saint Rita, Saint Barbara, Saint Francis of Assisi, Saint Francis of Loyola, Saint Clement, Saint Claire ...... compared to Calvin? After you answer you should realize that the passage was meant for you!