Psalm 151 Inspired or not?
- Thread starter MahogonySnail
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M
Maybe you all need to look closer. This was a major victory for Israel, and an eye opener to the state of hearts of the people of Israel before David came along and killed Goliath. Israel had forgotten who their God was, the promises of God, and who they were to God. David did not forget this, as evidenced by the way he reacted to Goliath bringing terror to Israel's army.
God is speaking something here that the whole church needs to grasp, the importance of knowing your identity, and the consequences that happen when you forget God's promises and you forget who you are. Israel is a good example for us all to learn from.
Machew
God is speaking something here that the whole church needs to grasp, the importance of knowing your identity, and the consequences that happen when you forget God's promises and you forget who you are. Israel is a good example for us all to learn from.
Machew
L
Hi Charisenexcelcis, I agree the translators of the KJV supported the continual revising of their work, and so do I. Old english is obviously not ideal in our day... But I wasnt talking about revising their work into into more understandable or modern language, I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is the use of manuscripts out of alexandria, Egypt that we get a lot of our modern translations from including the NIV. Im taliking about manuscripts that have been modified to fit gnostic belief of a culture that did not believe that Jesus was God. Ive attached 2 links to a video session with and Australian scholar and researcher/ bible teacher Les Garrett if anyone has the time orcould be bothered checking it out. Its well worth it as he's done his research and doesnt just spout his opinion.
Which Bible Can We Trust Part 1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-974169070860734626#
Which Bible Can We Trust Part 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-974169070860734626#docid=-5962849797588971392
Something interesting concerning readabilty of the KJV.
Ever heard of the Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level Indicator?
It is a computer program that evaluates the readability of texts and gives them a grade level rating which indicates suitability for children of different year grades at school.
Here are some results ;D
<IMG width=1><IMG width=1>Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level Indicator [FONT=Arial, helvetica]KJV
Grade
Level[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]NIV
Grade
Level[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]NASB
Grade
Level[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]TEV
Grade
Level[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]NKJV
Grade
Level[/FONT]Gen. 14.45.14.75.15.2Mal. 14.64.85.15.44.6Matt. 16.716.46.811.810.3Rev. 17.57.17.76.47.7Grade
Level
Average5.88.46.17.26.9
<IMG width=1><IMG width=1>Readability Analysis of Writing SamplesTEXTGradeSyllables
Per WordWords over
9 Letters USA Today91.510% People Magazine81.510% Children's Books71.38% King James Bible, New Testament71.33%
Results show that the KJV is actually easier to read that most other versions.
Some extra info concerning the result -
In comparing the first chapter of the first and last books of the Old and New Testaments, the Flesch-Kincaid research company’s Grade Level Indicator shows "The KJV ranks easier in 23 out of 26 comparisons"
"Why is the KJV easier to read? The KJV uses one or two syllable words while new versions substitute complex multi-syllable words and phrases." (Ibid, p. 196) She lists over 270 examples in the New Testament. Mrs. Riplinger also attributes the King James’s ease of understanding to "Simple sentence structure. . .." (Ibid, p. 204) She again lists many examples.
In her book, The Language of the King James Bible, Mrs Riplinger continues her research in the readability of the King James Bible. Mrs. Riplinger documents under the subtitle "Statistical Verification of Readability":
"Readability statistics generated from Grammatik and Word for Windows show why the KJV is 5th grade reading level, while the NKJV and NASB are 6th grade, and the NIV is 8th grade reading level! The KJV averages:
less syllables per word
less letters per word
less words per sentence
smaller percentage of long words
greater percentage of short words than the NKJV, NIV, NASB and NRSV According to readability statistics generated by Pro-Scribe, the KJV is easier to read than USA Today, People Magazine and most children’s books."
"According to the F-K [Flesch-Kincaid] formula 74.3% of the books [in the KJV] are on or below the sixth grade level, and 94% are on or below the seventh grade level! . . . And the FRE [Flesch Reading Ease] rated 97% of the KJV books as Fairly Easy or Easy! These were all first place statistics!" (Ibid, p. 80)
Mr. Waite summarizes his extensive analysis: "If any of these seven versions is authorized to boast about its success in these rigorous readability contests, it is the Authorized Version. [KJV]. If any has the right to flaunt the crown of victory, it is the KING James Bible."
It’s also worth noting, the New International Version (NIV), continually scored the worst, in some cases, much worse. So much for the nonsense about the King James being "harder to read".
The Eexperts Agree Dr. Rudolf Flesch is the leading authority, researcher and author on readability studies. Dr. Flesch is the originator of the famous Flesch-Kincaid readability standards. His book Why Johnny Can’t Read is a eye-opening, best-seller. In Dr. Flesch’s book, The Art of Plain Talk, he makes the following noteworthy statement about the King James Bible:
"The best example of very easy prose (about 20 affixes per 100 words) is the King James Version of the Bible: . . ." (Rudolf Flesch, The Art of Plain Talk, p. 43)
Several times in his book, Dr. Flesch praises the King James Bible for it’s ease of reading. And may I remind you, this is from the leading authority on the subject.
Echoing the opinion of Dr. Flesch in The Art of PLAIN Talk, the Apostle Paul writes the scriptures use "GREAT plainness of speech".
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
KJV, 2 Corinthians 3:12
As a fitting comparison, notice the NKJV and the NIV (as do the other new versions) lack the "plainness of speech".
NKJV
Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech;
NIV
Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold.
The national bestseller, The Story of English, writes of the simplicity of the King James Bible:
"The King James Bible was published in the year Shakespeare began work on his last play, The Tempest. Both the play and the Bible are masterpieces of English, but there is one crucial difference between them. Whereas Shakespeare ransacked the lexicon, the King James Bible employs a bare 8000 words—God’s teaching in homely English for everyman." (Robert McCrum, William Cran, and Robert MacNeil, The Story of English, p. 113)
The Norton Anthology of Literature, selected the King James Bible as one of the finest examples of writing style in existence. (cited in New Age Bible Versions, p. 212)
The Story of English crowns the King James Bible as, "probably the single most influential book ever published in the English language." (Robert McCrum, William Cran, and Robert MacNeil, The Story of English, p. 109)
One of the amazing personalities of the King James Bible is it’s poetic beauty. Nothing ever penned in the English language can match it’s sound and rhythm. For a work of it’s volume and serious subject matter – the poetic splendor defies human logic. The very sound of reading of the King James Bible bears the resemble of a music concerto. It’s timbre grabs you, as it’s melody sings God’s word. What an amazing book!
It’s worth noting the emphasis the King James translators placed, not only on the readable text of the King James Bible, but also it’s sound. Before the King James Bible was published and after the initial translation work was completed, a re-working took place, The Story of English describes this unique process, "they were to go through the text, re-working it so that it would not only read better but sound better, a quality for which it became famous throughout the English-speaking world." (Robert McCrum, William Cran, and Robert MacNeil, The Story of English, p. 112)
The words of Romans 10:17-18 comes ringing through:
Romans 10:17-18, KJV:
17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."
Notice how the NIV completely loses this melody in the "sound" of the "words". It’s now simply a message and a voice.
NIV, Romans 10:17:
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ."
18 "But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world."
There is a wonder and amazement at the majestic words of the King James Bible. They literally capture you with their beauty and awe: Former President Ronald Reagan, during one of his famous radio addresses, spoke on the God News for Modern Man Bible in comparison to the King James Bible. Mr. Reagan describes the difference:
"The sponsors of the ‘Good News’ version boast that their bible is as readable as the daily paper—and so it is. But do readers of the daily news find themselves moved to wonder, ‘at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth’"?
(Reagan In His Own Voice, Cd Audio, Disk 4, Track 2)
(Reagan In His own Hand, p. 409-411)
If the new versions are so much "easier to understand and read" — why is it that according to surveys by Barna Research of people who read their Bible on a daily basis, "The King James Version is more likely to be the Bible read during the week than is the NIV by a 5:1 ratio."(Barna Research, The Bible survey.
Why do people, including teenagers, ACTUALLY read the King James Bible FAR more than any other Bible?
Simple. . . The King James Bible is the words of God.
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27 6 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."
7 "Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalms 12:6,7
There may be words that are not commonly understood in the KJV due to the old english but its is a poetic masterpeice, and flows beautifully.
Which Bible Can We Trust Part 1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-974169070860734626#
Which Bible Can We Trust Part 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-974169070860734626#docid=-5962849797588971392
Which Bible Can We Trust Part 1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-974169070860734626#
Which Bible Can We Trust Part 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-974169070860734626#docid=-5962849797588971392
Something interesting concerning readabilty of the KJV.
Ever heard of the Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level Indicator?
It is a computer program that evaluates the readability of texts and gives them a grade level rating which indicates suitability for children of different year grades at school.
Here are some results ;D
<IMG width=1><IMG width=1>Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level Indicator [FONT=Arial, helvetica]KJV
Grade
Level[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]NIV
Grade
Level[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]NASB
Grade
Level[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]TEV
Grade
Level[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]NKJV
Grade
Level[/FONT]Gen. 14.45.14.75.15.2Mal. 14.64.85.15.44.6Matt. 16.716.46.811.810.3Rev. 17.57.17.76.47.7Grade
Level
Average5.88.46.17.26.9
<IMG width=1><IMG width=1>Readability Analysis of Writing SamplesTEXTGradeSyllables
Per WordWords over
9 Letters USA Today91.510% People Magazine81.510% Children's Books71.38% King James Bible, New Testament71.33%
Results show that the KJV is actually easier to read that most other versions.
Some extra info concerning the result -
In comparing the first chapter of the first and last books of the Old and New Testaments, the Flesch-Kincaid research company’s Grade Level Indicator shows "The KJV ranks easier in 23 out of 26 comparisons"
"Why is the KJV easier to read? The KJV uses one or two syllable words while new versions substitute complex multi-syllable words and phrases." (Ibid, p. 196) She lists over 270 examples in the New Testament. Mrs. Riplinger also attributes the King James’s ease of understanding to "Simple sentence structure. . .." (Ibid, p. 204) She again lists many examples.
In her book, The Language of the King James Bible, Mrs Riplinger continues her research in the readability of the King James Bible. Mrs. Riplinger documents under the subtitle "Statistical Verification of Readability":
"Readability statistics generated from Grammatik and Word for Windows show why the KJV is 5th grade reading level, while the NKJV and NASB are 6th grade, and the NIV is 8th grade reading level! The KJV averages:
less syllables per word
less letters per word
less words per sentence
smaller percentage of long words
greater percentage of short words than the NKJV, NIV, NASB and NRSV According to readability statistics generated by Pro-Scribe, the KJV is easier to read than USA Today, People Magazine and most children’s books."
"According to the F-K [Flesch-Kincaid] formula 74.3% of the books [in the KJV] are on or below the sixth grade level, and 94% are on or below the seventh grade level! . . . And the FRE [Flesch Reading Ease] rated 97% of the KJV books as Fairly Easy or Easy! These were all first place statistics!" (Ibid, p. 80)
Mr. Waite summarizes his extensive analysis: "If any of these seven versions is authorized to boast about its success in these rigorous readability contests, it is the Authorized Version. [KJV]. If any has the right to flaunt the crown of victory, it is the KING James Bible."
It’s also worth noting, the New International Version (NIV), continually scored the worst, in some cases, much worse. So much for the nonsense about the King James being "harder to read".
The Eexperts Agree Dr. Rudolf Flesch is the leading authority, researcher and author on readability studies. Dr. Flesch is the originator of the famous Flesch-Kincaid readability standards. His book Why Johnny Can’t Read is a eye-opening, best-seller. In Dr. Flesch’s book, The Art of Plain Talk, he makes the following noteworthy statement about the King James Bible:
"The best example of very easy prose (about 20 affixes per 100 words) is the King James Version of the Bible: . . ." (Rudolf Flesch, The Art of Plain Talk, p. 43)
Several times in his book, Dr. Flesch praises the King James Bible for it’s ease of reading. And may I remind you, this is from the leading authority on the subject.
Echoing the opinion of Dr. Flesch in The Art of PLAIN Talk, the Apostle Paul writes the scriptures use "GREAT plainness of speech".
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
KJV, 2 Corinthians 3:12
As a fitting comparison, notice the NKJV and the NIV (as do the other new versions) lack the "plainness of speech".
NKJV
Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech;
NIV
Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold.
The national bestseller, The Story of English, writes of the simplicity of the King James Bible:
"The King James Bible was published in the year Shakespeare began work on his last play, The Tempest. Both the play and the Bible are masterpieces of English, but there is one crucial difference between them. Whereas Shakespeare ransacked the lexicon, the King James Bible employs a bare 8000 words—God’s teaching in homely English for everyman." (Robert McCrum, William Cran, and Robert MacNeil, The Story of English, p. 113)
The Norton Anthology of Literature, selected the King James Bible as one of the finest examples of writing style in existence. (cited in New Age Bible Versions, p. 212)
The Story of English crowns the King James Bible as, "probably the single most influential book ever published in the English language." (Robert McCrum, William Cran, and Robert MacNeil, The Story of English, p. 109)
One of the amazing personalities of the King James Bible is it’s poetic beauty. Nothing ever penned in the English language can match it’s sound and rhythm. For a work of it’s volume and serious subject matter – the poetic splendor defies human logic. The very sound of reading of the King James Bible bears the resemble of a music concerto. It’s timbre grabs you, as it’s melody sings God’s word. What an amazing book!
It’s worth noting the emphasis the King James translators placed, not only on the readable text of the King James Bible, but also it’s sound. Before the King James Bible was published and after the initial translation work was completed, a re-working took place, The Story of English describes this unique process, "they were to go through the text, re-working it so that it would not only read better but sound better, a quality for which it became famous throughout the English-speaking world." (Robert McCrum, William Cran, and Robert MacNeil, The Story of English, p. 112)
The words of Romans 10:17-18 comes ringing through:
Romans 10:17-18, KJV:
17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."
Notice how the NIV completely loses this melody in the "sound" of the "words". It’s now simply a message and a voice.
NIV, Romans 10:17:
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ."
18 "But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world."
There is a wonder and amazement at the majestic words of the King James Bible. They literally capture you with their beauty and awe: Former President Ronald Reagan, during one of his famous radio addresses, spoke on the God News for Modern Man Bible in comparison to the King James Bible. Mr. Reagan describes the difference:
"The sponsors of the ‘Good News’ version boast that their bible is as readable as the daily paper—and so it is. But do readers of the daily news find themselves moved to wonder, ‘at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth’"?
(Reagan In His Own Voice, Cd Audio, Disk 4, Track 2)
(Reagan In His own Hand, p. 409-411)
If the new versions are so much "easier to understand and read" — why is it that according to surveys by Barna Research of people who read their Bible on a daily basis, "The King James Version is more likely to be the Bible read during the week than is the NIV by a 5:1 ratio."(Barna Research, The Bible survey.
Why do people, including teenagers, ACTUALLY read the King James Bible FAR more than any other Bible?
Simple. . . The King James Bible is the words of God.
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27 6 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."
7 "Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalms 12:6,7
There may be words that are not commonly understood in the KJV due to the old english but its is a poetic masterpeice, and flows beautifully.
Which Bible Can We Trust Part 1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-974169070860734626#
Which Bible Can We Trust Part 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-974169070860734626#docid=-5962849797588971392
L
Sorry the table of results in my last post didnt work. details are as follows for results:
TEXT GRADE SYLLABLES PER WORD WORDS OVER 9 LETTERS
USA Today 9 1.5 10%
People Magazine 8 1.5 10%
Childrens Books 7 1.3 8%
KJV Bible 7 1.3 3%
Also...
KJV NIV NASB TEV NKJV
Gen 1 4.4 5.1 4.7 5.1 5.2
Mal 1 4.6 4.8 5.1 5.4 4.6
Matt 1 6.7 16.4 6.8 11.8 10.3
Rev 1 7.5 7.1 7.7 6.4 7.7
Average 5.8 8.4 6.1 7.2 6.9
KJV comes out easiest to read.
TEXT GRADE SYLLABLES PER WORD WORDS OVER 9 LETTERS
USA Today 9 1.5 10%
People Magazine 8 1.5 10%
Childrens Books 7 1.3 8%
KJV Bible 7 1.3 3%
Also...
KJV NIV NASB TEV NKJV
Gen 1 4.4 5.1 4.7 5.1 5.2
Mal 1 4.6 4.8 5.1 5.4 4.6
Matt 1 6.7 16.4 6.8 11.8 10.3
Rev 1 7.5 7.1 7.7 6.4 7.7
Average 5.8 8.4 6.1 7.2 6.9
KJV comes out easiest to read.
L
The format of this forum enjoys making this difficult hahah NOW, details are as follows for results:
USA Today
GRADE 9
SYLLABLES PER WORD 1.5
WORDS OVER 9 LETTERS 10%
People Magazine
GRADE 8
SYLLABLES PER WORD 1.5
WORDS OVER 9 LETTERS 10%
Childrens Books
GRADE 7
SYLLABLES PER WORD 1.3
WORDS OVER 9 LETTERS 8%
KJV Bible
GRADE 7
SYLLABLES PER WORD 1.3
WORDS OVER 9 LETTERS 3%
Also...GRADE LEVELS FOR DFFERENT TRANSLATIONS
Gen 1
KJV 4.4
NIV 5.1
NASB 4.7
TEV 5.1
NKJV 5.2
Mal 1
KJV 4.6
NIV 4.8
NASB 5.1
TEV 5.4
NKJV 4.6
Matt 1
KJV 6.7
NIV 16.4
NASB 6.8
TEV1 1.8
NKJV 10.3
Rev 1
KJV 7.5
NIV 7.1
NASB 7.7
TEV 6.4
NKJV 7.7
Average Scores
KJV 5.8
NIV 8.4
NASB 6.1
TEV 7.2
NKJV 6.9
KJV comes out easiest to read.
USA Today
GRADE 9
SYLLABLES PER WORD 1.5
WORDS OVER 9 LETTERS 10%
People Magazine
GRADE 8
SYLLABLES PER WORD 1.5
WORDS OVER 9 LETTERS 10%
Childrens Books
GRADE 7
SYLLABLES PER WORD 1.3
WORDS OVER 9 LETTERS 8%
KJV Bible
GRADE 7
SYLLABLES PER WORD 1.3
WORDS OVER 9 LETTERS 3%
Also...GRADE LEVELS FOR DFFERENT TRANSLATIONS
Gen 1
KJV 4.4
NIV 5.1
NASB 4.7
TEV 5.1
NKJV 5.2
Mal 1
KJV 4.6
NIV 4.8
NASB 5.1
TEV 5.4
NKJV 4.6
Matt 1
KJV 6.7
NIV 16.4
NASB 6.8
TEV1 1.8
NKJV 10.3
Rev 1
KJV 7.5
NIV 7.1
NASB 7.7
TEV 6.4
NKJV 7.7
Average Scores
KJV 5.8
NIV 8.4
NASB 6.1
TEV 7.2
NKJV 6.9
KJV comes out easiest to read.
I have not read all the post concerning this thread , but most of the first page doesn't surprize me at the least, first let me say that the psalm 151 that is on the website, I saw it as david humbling himself he was the least of his brother. he was a shepherd, But i see him as giving God the Glory, so even if it is not inspired it could certainly inspire me. but then I went to look it up, to see how it read In the KJB, and it is not there, I went to gateway looked up several other translations and it is not there, But what doesn't surprize me is this post has several people raising themselves up to say that they know what parts of the Bible should be bible and what parts shouldn't be bible, there is a verse that says that the Bible Is for reprove and correction, but this means that the scriptures should reprove and correct us, this does not give us the right to reprove and correct the scriptures. it is not for an individual intrepetation, so when One person says that personly I don't think that this should be Bible then they have just gone against the Bible Itself. and so I don't care how smart you are, I don't care how many languages you are versed in, or how well you understand english, greek and hebrew, and if you feel that you are wise enough to know better than anyone else. I have a question that you might be able to answer that is if you dare to, JUST WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, THAT YOU CAN CHANGE THE HOLY WORD OF GOD.
what promises are you referring to, haven't you heard that according to the majority in here that faith has to have works, so the promises of God would depend on how hard we all work, It would be real easy to forget the we are children of the Most High, when we realize that we can never be good enough to be qualified for His promises, and that depends on me to get myself saved and keep myself saved, for once we realized that we can never achieve this Goal that God has set for us, then we must realize that we are on our way to the everlasting separation of God, which would only have us as doomed without any hope. unless( oh yeah the devil had a plot But God had a plan) unless we rely on His Plan for us to obtain this salvation Through His Son Jesus Christ and His works, alone. could this be the promise that you referr to
Ro 10:13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Ro 10:13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
M
That is the most important promise for sure. But I was also referring to the promises of God that apply to those who have already invited Jesus as their Lord and Savior, those who have become the children of God, and realize that their righteousness comes from Jesus alone.
Regarding the faith without works thing, I believe that true faith produces works, not the other way around. That is why faith without works is dead, because faith will naturally produce the works in someone's life. People with faith are naturally compelled and greatly desire to do the works of God.
M
oh I see your point now. Sorry I missed that. If it isn't in official canon then I suppose there is a reason. But if it was written by David, it can give us more insight into how David processed things and how he thought. That can potentially be valuable since God called him a man after His own heart.
I believe when they chose the canon they not only excluded books that were thought to be in error, but also parts that were thought not to be essential to doctrine. Doctrinally there's nothing wrong with psalm 151. But when you read it , it does lack depth and substance and only serves to be a summary of a story you can already read in other books.