QUESTION! (about Christmas and Easter)

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T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
3,356
122
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#1
Matthew 5:17, 1 John 2:3-6, Romans 7:12, Mark 7:6-9

Those verse's all have one thing in common, they all say the law is standing. Now this can become tricky, because verses like 1 Corinthians 7:18-19 where Paul almost says one commandment is not necessary but still tells us to follow it... This is cleared up with a parallel in Romans 2:29. Saying that the law is in obeyed your heart, not in your religion. Such as praying alone to God in a closet, compared to having a public showing of how holy you are by praying in a mall for public attention. This also goes hand and hand with Jesus saying if any many looks lustfully at another, then you have committed adultery in your heart. (Matthew 5:28).

This is not what my question is over, but is a pivoting point for the answer. If I am correct the answer will lie in, do you follow it in only your heart. Or is a thing like James 2:8 more of the issue here?

I know that I have skimmed over like 8 preaching lessons in less then two paragraphs, and if I am wrong please show me. But I think I have a pretty good grasp over what I have said. I just had to law a foundation to build the question upon.


Here we go gnawing towards the bone.
In Deut. 4 it says do not add or subtract even one commandment.
In Exodus 32 The people of God who had just made a blood covenant with them, grew tired of waiting on God... So they went to Aaron and asked for him to make them a calf, Aaron did and dedicated a feast to the Lord. Even though the feast was dedicated to God, He was furious! He was about to slay them right then and there. Now, I believe that God became even more furious when they worshiped Him in the way Egyptians worship their gods... Why do I think this?Duet 12:28-32. God specifically told us, that when they get spread out upon the earth. Do not worship Him in the way the pagans worship their god's for it is an abomination unto God. He even warns us that the those people who worship their gods in those ways will be burnt in the fire.



Here is my question...

If Easter and Christmas were pagan holidays, should we worship Christ on those days? (No way was Christ born on the 25th, or died Easter Sunday...

December 25th being the day they worship their sun god's. And on Easter where they would sacrifice children and die eggs in the baby's blood, because Ishtar/Easter was Nimrods wife who was the god of fertility was reincarnated and when she came back down from the moon she came in a egg, To proclaim divinity she turned a bird into a rabbit that lays eggs. So, they would impregnate virgins on the alter of Easter and slaughter the children when they were 3 months old. And dye the eggs in the baby's blood as a remembrance of the goddess of the moon.

Tammuz was Nimrod's reincarnation name, and died in a freak hunting accident from a boar. So on Easter they would not only sacrifice children and die the egg's for the moon goddess, but they would slaughter a pig and eat it for the sun god on Easter.
Furthermore they would deny themselves 40 days of pleasure each year around the time of Easter so the sun god could have pleasure in the after life. Nearly identical to lent.
Ishtar/Easter Nimrod's wife said that she saw a tree appear when her husband/son ascended into heaven. And every year he would return to give presents under it...

Chemosh/Molech god of prosperity, his people had a tradition on December 25th that they would get a statue of him with a phrygian cap, red hot with a fire, and the people would make a list of their desires and then set a child on his lap so the desire would be fulfilled.


Zeus/Jupiter on December 25th a Greek general Antiochus Epiphanies set a statue of that god on the Temple Mount and sacrificed a pig on the Alter of God and declared Jupiter god over God.

Ra and Artis, both castrated themselves so worshipers would hang gold and silver balls in honor of them from palm tree's.



Do you think it would be pleasing unto God if I were to celebrate Christmas, even if I have a good intention? I know this is a very anti dramatic question after all of that... But I don't think that the answer lies around "BUT CHRISTMAS MEANS THIS TOO ME" If this were true then Deut 12:28-32 would be false...

Here as some pictures of the gods listed above...

 
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V

VioletReigns

Guest
#2
T-Laurich dear, you just posted satanic images and pictures of false gods in defense of your being offended at your Christian brothers & sisters who want to celebrate the Lord's birth. Perhaps the moderators can remove these photos from this Christian site? I hope so. *sigh* :confused:
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
3,356
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#3
T-Laurich dear, you just posted satanic images and pictures of false gods in defense of your being offended at your Christian brothers & sisters who want to celebrate the Lord's birth. Perhaps the moderators can remove these photos from this Christian site? I hope so. *sigh* :confused:
Read what I put, and I put pictures to show what these gods did and how they were worshiped... And what they looked like to give the reader a understanding.

There is no way Christ was born on December 25th...


Also I am not offended, I have a question... A sincere one...
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,603
113
#4
​What is this? I don't even...
 
V

VioletReigns

Guest
#5
Since when does posting demonic images work the righteousness of God? :confused:
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
3,356
122
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#8
​okay T_, what's your question? :)
Matthew 5:17, 1 John 2:3-6, Romans 7:12, Mark 7:6-9

Those verse's all have one thing in common, they all say the law is standing. Now this can become tricky, because verses like 1 Corinthians 7:18-19 where Paul almost says one commandment is not necessary but still tells us to follow it... This is cleared up with a parallel in Romans 2:29. Saying that the law is in obeyed your heart, not in your religion. Such as praying alone to God in a closet, compared to having a public showing of how holy you are by praying in a mall for public attention. This also goes hand and hand with Jesus saying if any many looks lustfully at another, then you have committed adultery in your heart. (Matthew 5:28).

This is not what my question is over, but is a pivoting point for the answer. If I am correct the answer will lie in, do you follow it in only your heart. Or is a thing like James 2:8 more of the issue here?

I know that I have skimmed over like 8 preaching lessons in less then two paragraphs, and if I am wrong please show me. But I think I have a pretty good grasp over what I have said. I just had to law a foundation to build the question upon.

Here we go gnawing towards the bone.
In Deut. 4 it says do not add or subtract even one commandment.
In Exodus 32 The people of God who had just made a blood covenant with them, grew tired of waiting on God... So they went to Aaron and asked for him to make them a calf, Aaron did and dedicated a feast to the Lord. Even though the feast was dedicated to God, He was furious! He was about to slay them right then and there. Now, I believe that God became even more furious when they worshiped Him in the way Egyptians worship their gods... Why do I think this?Duet 12:28-32. God specifically told us, that when they get spread out upon the earth. Do not worship Him in the way the pagans worship their god's for it is an abomination unto God. He even warns us that the those people who worship their gods in those ways will be burnt in the fire.



Here is my question...

If Easter and Christmas were pagan holidays, should we worship Christ on those days? (No way was Christ born on the 25th, or died Easter Sunday...

December 25th being the day they worship their sun god's. And on Easter where they would sacrifice children and die eggs in the baby's blood, because Ishtar/Easter was Nimrods wife who was the god of fertility was reincarnated and when she came back down from the moon she came in a egg, To proclaim divinity she turned a bird into a rabbit that lays eggs. So, they would impregnate virgins on the alter of Easter and slaughter the children when they were 3 months old. And dye the eggs in the baby's blood as a remembrance of the goddess of the moon.

Tammuz was Nimrod's reincarnation name, and died in a freak hunting accident from a boar. So on Easter they would not only sacrifice children and die the egg's for the moon goddess, but they would slaughter a pig and eat it for the sun god on Easter.
Furthermore they would deny themselves 40 days of pleasure each year around the time of Easter so the sun god could have pleasure in the after life. Nearly identical to lent.
Ishtar/Easter Nimrod's wife said that she saw a tree appear when her husband/son ascended into heaven. And every year he would return to give presents under it...

Chemosh/Molech god of prosperity, his people had a tradition on December 25th that they would get a statue of him with a phrygian cap, red hot with a fire, and the people would make a list of their desires and then set a child on his lap so the desire would be fulfilled.

Zeus/Jupiter on December 25th a Greek general Antiochus Epiphanies set a statue of that god on the Temple Mount and sacrificed a pig on the Alter of God and declared Jupiter god over God.

Ra and Artis, both castrated themselves so worshipers would hang gold and silver balls in honor of them from palm tree's.


Do you think it would be pleasing unto God if I were to celebrate Christmas, even if I have a good intention? I know this is a very anti dramatic question after all of that... But I don't think that the answer lies around "BUT CHRISTMAS MEANS THIS TOO ME" If this were true then Deut 12:28-32 would be false...


 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
3,356
122
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#9
This question is honestly haunting me, can someone answer it... It's not for drama, or to stir up everyone, or to create a movement...

It is a honest question.
 

EmethAlethia

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2014
244
26
18
#10
Well, you do kind of bounce around a lot. Let me see if I have the question right. You are asking if a Christian should worship on Christmas and Easter. “Assuming” that is the question, let me offer a passage:

Rom 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

The question is, what do you believe? If you study the rest of the passage surrounding this, you will find a bunch of people who are all worried about statues, idols, meat sacrificed to idols, and a few mature Christians who just liked cheap meat, which Paul says is ok since idols aren’t anything in the first place, but that since there are Christians who still have doubts, if they ask you over for dinner and state, that meat is sacrificed to idols don’t eat it lest they might be strengthened to do something they still believe is sinful.

For that reason, those that believe they are sinning for seeing statues and pictures of statues and believe that they committed a sin for even looking at them might want to see them removed. Frankly, I doubt anyone is going to be strengthened to keep, or post, or do anything else with the pictures that they believe is a sin, so the passage really doesn’t apply to that, so I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Some people believe that playing cards are sinful and that even a picture of a deck is a bad thing. Posting a picture of a deck of cards isn’t bad unless it causes those that believe it is a sin to play to grab a deck and play. Same idea.

Ok, so what about all the ancient pagan mystery religions, Babylonian religions … and the incorporation of pagan holidays into the church. Whatever we want to believe about the incorporation, it is there to stay, and most people have no idea of what the meaning is for things anymore.

Christmas trees signify the eternal life that Christ offers, the star the birth of Jesus, the lights signify us Christians being the light of the world … some people believe this, and to them, that’s what the tree and all of the rest of it means. Nothing at all wrong with that. Celebrating on the 25[SUP]th[/SUP]? Well, when all was darkest, Christ came to bring us back to the light. (That’s the shortest day of the year by the way.)

That said, if it bothers someone, they can celebrate Good Wednesday and Easter Saturday evening any time they like, or not celebrate at all. (Three days and three nights. The day Jesus died on was not a regular Sabbath (Friday dusk till Saturday dusk) but a High Day which can happen any day of the week. Early on the first day of the week is dusk Saturday night. The Jews calculated days from dusk till dusk.)

I don’t worry about it and go with the flow. The other thing in the context of the passage above is not judging those that do choose to eat, or hold to different days … or who post pictures of old statues…
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#11
Is your whole family saved, T?
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#12
Good question. Why don't more people want to know? Anyhow, seems to me that you are on the path that leads to the truth. Don't be intimidated by anyone who celebrates a lie, and says you should shut up and do it too.

You can put lipstick on a pig, oh well, you know. :)
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
3,356
122
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#13
Well, you do kind of bounce around a lot. Let me see if I have the question right. You are asking if a Christian should worship on Christmas and Easter. “Assuming” that is the question, let me offer a passage:

Rom 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

The question is, what do you believe? If you study the rest of the passage surrounding this, you will find a bunch of people who are all worried about statues, idols, meat sacrificed to idols, and a few mature Christians who just liked cheap meat, which Paul says is ok since idols aren’t anything in the first place, but that since there are Christians who still have doubts, if they ask you over for dinner and state, that meat is sacrificed to idols don’t eat it lest they might be strengthened to do something they still believe is sinful.

For that reason, those that believe they are sinning for seeing statues and pictures of statues and believe that they committed a sin for even looking at them might want to see them removed. Frankly, I doubt anyone is going to be strengthened to keep, or post, or do anything else with the pictures that they believe is a sin, so the passage really doesn’t apply to that, so I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Some people believe that playing cards are sinful and that even a picture of a deck is a bad thing. Posting a picture of a deck of cards isn’t bad unless it causes those that believe it is a sin to play to grab a deck and play. Same idea.

Ok, so what about all the ancient pagan mystery religions, Babylonian religions … and the incorporation of pagan holidays into the church. Whatever we want to believe about the incorporation, it is there to stay, and most people have no idea of what the meaning is for things anymore.

Christmas trees signify the eternal life that Christ offers, the star the birth of Jesus, the lights signify us Christians being the light of the world … some people believe this, and to them, that’s what the tree and all of the rest of it means. Nothing at all wrong with that. Celebrating on the 25[SUP]th[/SUP]? Well, when all was darkest, Christ came to bring us back to the light. (That’s the shortest day of the year by the way.)

That said, if it bothers someone, they can celebrate Good Wednesday and Easter Saturday evening any time they like, or not celebrate at all. (Three days and three nights. The day Jesus died on was not a regular Sabbath (Friday dusk till Saturday dusk) but a High Day which can happen any day of the week. Early on the first day of the week is dusk Saturday night. The Jews calculated days from dusk till dusk.)

I don’t worry about it and go with the flow. The other thing in the context of the passage above is not judging those that do choose to eat, or hold to different days … or who post pictures of old statues…
Thank you, but what about Duet 12:28-32 does it not forbid the using of pagan holidays to worship God?
I don't think it's a question about, what feels good to you, are you convinced, I think it's a question of, does the bible forbid it or not... After the answer is given through scripture then I will be convinced, but Deut 12, has me thinking that it is strictly forbidden.
 
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Mar 14, 2014
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#14
There is a huge difference in perverting something sacred and making something that was once perverted, sacred. Col 2:16 I know a man that used to go on a huge drinking binge every New Year's Eve. Now he spends that time on his knees. This is not some ritual that happened hundreds of years ago; this is a change within his life time. Is he wrong for him to incorporate this date as a special day set aside for the Lord? When pagans converted it is good fitting and proper that they took the days that they once practiced their perversions and set them aside to worship the one true God.
 
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T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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#15
There is a huge difference in perverting something scared and making something that was once perverted, scared. Col 2:16 I know a man that used to go on a huge drinking binge every New Year's Eve. Now he spends that time on his knees. This is not some ritual that happened hundreds of years ago; this is a change within his life time. Is he wrong for him to incorporate this date as a special day set aside for the Lord? When pagans converted it is good fitting and proper that they took the days that they once practiced their perversions and set them aside to worship the one true God.
But what about Duet 12:28-32
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
3,356
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#16
Is your whole family saved, T?
No I am the only one.
Through time they are starting to believe there is a God, but I think they say that to shut me up at times...
 
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Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#17
This question is honestly haunting me, can someone answer it... It's not for drama, or to stir up everyone, or to create a movement...

It is a honest question.
The truth of the matter is that no matter which day you pick to be Christs official birthday, someone will find that the day shares some kind of pagan ritual or feast day or whatever, thousands of years thousands of gods, you do not need a good grasp of math to see that.

Why 25th Dec was chosen, well that could be another story, knowing how Roman culture worked, which of course continued in form of the Papacy, then it is more than likley that they co-incided it with a popular pagan day of celebration, it was standard practice to incorporate elements of different religions and beleifs into the church.

However it is not a continuation of those pagan holidays nor an endorsement of them, its trying to erase the original meaning from the population, over time people forget the original feast day or whatever you want to call it, and come to remember it as Christs Birthday, but of course we have the enemies of Christianity stirring up trouble by claiming the day back or whatever.

If we celebrate the day as a Christian day and claim it for God, then its obvious we are not doing anything wrong and certainly are not giving it over to Satan. Again there are thousands of rituals and objects used in worship and ritual throughout history around the world, so again some things we do may be identical in those rituals, but of course we are not doing it for that reason, therefore putting up a tree is not worshipping some tree god or whatever its just a tree and nothing more.

As for Easter, well we can pin-point the death of Christ and his resurection, that is more important than his birth and do you think Satan is going to let us get away with that without trying to corrupt it? No of course not, something else to think about!
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
3,356
122
63
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#18
The truth of the matter is that no matter which day you pick to be Christs official birthday, someone will find that the day shares some kind of pagan ritual or feast day or whatever, thousands of years thousands of gods, you do not need a good grasp of math to see that.

Why 25th Dec was chosen, well that could be another story, knowing how Roman culture worked, which of course continued in form of the Papacy, then it is more than likley that they co-incided it with a popular pagan day of celebration, it was standard practice to incorporate elements of different religions and beleifs into the church.

However it is not a continuation of those pagan holidays nor an endorsement of them, its trying to erase the original meaning from the population, over time people forget the original feast day or whatever you want to call it, and come to remember it as Christs Birthday, but of course we have the enemies of Christianity stirring up trouble by claiming the day back or whatever.

If we celebrate the day as a Christian day and claim it for God, then its obvious we are not doing anything wrong and certainly are not giving it over to Satan. Again there are thousands of rituals and objects used in worship and ritual throughout history around the world, so again some things we do may be identical in those rituals, but of course we are not doing it for that reason, therefore putting up a tree is not worshipping some tree god or whatever its just a tree and nothing more.

As for Easter, well we can pin-point the death of Christ and his resurection, that is more important than his birth and do you think Satan is going to let us get away with that without trying to corrupt it? No of course not, something else to think about!
What about Duet 12:28-32 or Exodus 32

And it's not about it being Christ's official birth day, its about worshiping God through pagan means.
 
Mar 14, 2014
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#19
When reading scripture you have to keep in mind who the audience was. There are some passages that do not apply to all mankind for all times. In John 4 Jesus is clear that the time is coming when those that worship God will do so differently than in the past.

If you believe that Duet 12:28-32 was a command given to all people for all times, God bless you brother, but I cannot accept that.
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
3,356
122
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#20
When reading scripture you have to keep in mind who the audience was. There are some passages that do not apply to all mankind for all times. In John 4 Jesus is clear that the time is coming when those that worship God will do so differently than in the past.

If you believe that Duet 12:28-32 was a command given to all people for all times, God bless you brother, but I cannot accept that.
Matthew 5:17, 1 John 2:3-6, Romans 7:12, Mark 7:6-9

All of these passages say the law is standing...

Deut 12 is part of the law...

Deut. 4says do not add or subtract even 1 law...